Guns and the Gabrielle Giffords shooting.

galfordo

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One other thing...I got into a "need" conversation with a co worker today...

He simply stated "why would anyone need a magazine that can hold 30 bullets?"

I replied with "why does anyone need a car that can go over the speed limit? Why does anyone need to eat 4500 calories in one sitting at a fast food restaurant? See, these two things combined kill more citizens in a year than firearms kill in ten."

He just sat here looking at me strangely and replied "Well...you're no better than the ones who want to ban guns then..."

I interrupted him with "No, no I'm not. I don't think fast cars or shitty food should be banned...I'm saying that the "do you really need xxxxxx, then it should be banned" conversation goes down a dangerous road. Guns are just an easy target."

He subtly changed the subject...

I need magazines that hold 30 bullets to protect myself from criminals who have magazines that hold 30 bullets, who don't give a fuck about laws that ban magazines that hold 30 bullets.

This knee-jerk reaction nonsense is just politicians trying to outlaw criminality.


I sincerely hope that this article is correct: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41071206/ns/us_news-the_new_york_times/
 
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norton9478

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All I can tell you is that when the cops show up, they shoot the first armed person they see.

I've been forced on the ground at gunpoint because they were answering a domestic AT THE WRONG ADDRESS... All I did wrong was BBQ in the front yard.

I've also been in an armed standoff with police over a misunderstanding (different incident)...
Not fun.
 

Lagduf

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I hear that. If you are in a shooting that was justified you can expect to be treated like a criminal by the police don't forget to remain silent and get a lawyer.
 

norton9478

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I want to hear this story

I can't give all the details because I don't want to risk contradicting the details of the sworn statement I made (even though the statute of limitations has surely lapsed).

But I started working with this guy... And on the first Friday, he invited me up to his crib (a room in a boarding house known as Hells' Hallway) for a party.

Bunch of miscreants, underage kids and riff raff. Somebody has a pistol there. No big deal.

But what happened is that a cab driver allegedly spotted the pistol the kid was carrying... And the kid, drunk off his ass was acting strange.

The Driver thought the kid was on his way to blow my new hommie away... Sk he Called Police.

So anyways... We are having a good time. Someone goes out into the hallway to use the shared bathroom. Bunch of arguing, and somebody says something about police. Two more go out and more shouting. Finally my new hommie goes out there and more shouting. Leaving me and another kid (the one who allegedly brought the gun) in the boarding house.

Cops are screaming at us to come out. I think that they are there to fuck with us or bust up underage kids so I start screaming back. Tell them to get a warrant. I dare them to bust down the door. I don't know that they are after a gun... And believe us to be armed. So I match bravado with bravado. The cops think I'm ready to start blazing them.

Finally, the kid (who has allegedly ditched the gun in the room) says fuck it, I'm going to sleep and sits on the bed... The cops kick out the window-fan next to the bed and drag his ass out onto the balcony... Home dog still won't open the door or co-operate.

Finally after another 10 minutes, the cops decide to stop screaming. They start talking calmly so I lower my tone also. I finally get them to say why they are here.. And they say something about a gun. So I know that they will end up getting a warrant if they are after a gun... So I negotiate my way out the window without getting shot.
 
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norton9478

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I hear that. If you are in a shooting that was justified you can expect to be treated like a criminal by the police don't forget to remain silent and get a lawyer.

There was a first responder Paramedic on 9/11/01. He ended up missing, but the authorities were more interested in looking for possible ties to Al Queda than anything else.
 

steve11

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just the same in that people would have been hurt/killed

not the same in that as many would have been hurt/killed

the ease of use and power trip effect guns can have on people are unrivaled

people will always find ways to kill other people, it's just comes down to technology allowing them to do it more efficiently

If he went through all the trouble of stewing for years about this and planning it out he could have just made a bomb and blown everybody up.
 

norton9478

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If he went through all the trouble of stewing for years about this and planning it out he could have just made a bomb and blown everybody up.

Fortunately, Bombs are much harder to obtain/make/use effectively and without detection.
 

Average Joe

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If he went through all the trouble of stewing for years about this and planning it out he could have just made a bomb and blown everybody up.

then i'd at least give him credit for putting effort into it

guns are lazy weaponry
 

smokehouse

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then i'd at least give him credit for putting effort into it

guns are lazy weaponry

Well then, looking at it your way, cars and planes are lazy modes of travel...why not just walk those 500 miles to get where you want to go.

Advancements in technology do not equal lazy...
 

Lagduf

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Norton is spot on about the bombing issue. Remember the last time there was a major bombing in the US? Yeah.

Even prior to Oklahoma City the most notorious bomber in the US, Ted Kaczynski, was just making pipe bombs.
 

steve11

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Norton is spot on about the bombing issue. Remember the last time there was a major bombing in the US? Yeah.

Even prior to Oklahoma City the most notorious bomber in the US, Ted Kaczynski, was just making pipe bombs.

And yet bombings happen regularly in other countries.

Making a bomb isn't that hard, neither is not getting caught provided you aren't asking around on internet forums and land up with the FBI making you a fake bomb.

Guns are just really easy to get here so there isn't a need to get a bomb. When you can buy a glock and a 30 round mag why bother spending a week turning your car into a bomb?

Plus bombs aren't cool in our culture.

I'm simply arguing that gun control might stand a chance of reducing crimes of passion, but in no way shape or form will stop a motivated attacker with time from taking out a ton of people at will.

If you want to cause carnage it's not that hard to whip up all sorts of items at home that can cause a ton more damage at home, it's just a pain in the ass. And even if guns were banned it's not that hard to make a zipgun or a coil gun (though that takes a fair amount of knowing what the fuck you are doing) and in other nations they have entire industries, often by idiots in huts making knock off assault weapons (there is an interesting documentary on this going on in Pakistan and other places).

You can manufaction, chlorine gas, sarin gas, and ricin extremely easily and with products you can obtain that cause no alerts.

This dude had been after Giffords since 2007. If he couldn't have used a gun he could have easily turned to other items, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to make them.
 

Average Joe

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Well then, looking at it your way, cars and planes are lazy modes of travel...

i was thinking of a good reply but then realized the vast majority of people could stand to go for more walks so i guess i'll just go along with this
 

SouthtownKid

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First off, I'll start by saying: when parsing the sentence "a dangerous nut with a gun" the "nut" makes the "gun" dangerous, not he other way around.
Yeah, that's the exact kind of simplistic, substanceless thinking I'd expect you to find clever.

If you don't think a gun makes a nut more dangerous than he would be with, say, a knife, or being forced to wait for opportunities to push people out of windows one at a time, then you are completely beyond help.


You could say, "Well a nut with a car is also potentially very dangerous," and this is true. In fact, if you wanted to take out a mass amount of people in a mindless rampage, a car is a good way to go. But a nut with a car and a gun is even more dangerous. A nut with a car and a samurai sword and a gun is more dangerous than a nut with just the car and sword. A nut with a car, a samurai sword two dobermans trained to eat babies and a gun is more dangerous than a nut with a car, a samurai sword two dobermans trained to eat babies without the gun. Whatever the danger level of a particular nut, a gun will add to that danger level 100% of the time. Fucking duh.
 

smokehouse

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i was thinking of a good reply but then realized the vast majority of people could stand to go for more walks so i guess i'll just go along with this

On a micro sense...you're right...on a macro sense, you're not.

Taking a car 1 mile or simply walking...you're 100% right, a car is lazy. Driving 100 miles is not however...

Killing one person...yeah, a gun might be considered "lazy" in a twisted way...

However, if you want to kill as many as possible...I'd say a gun is the right choice.
 

Lagduf

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Yeah, that's the exact kind of simplistic, substanceless thinking I'd expect you to find clever.

If you don't think a gun makes a nut more dangerous than he would be with, say, a knife, or being forced to wait for opportunities to push people out of windows one at a time, then you are completely beyond help.


You could say, "Well a nut with a car is also potentially very dangerous," and this is true. In fact, if you wanted to take out a mass amount of people in a mindless rampage, a car is a good way to go. But a nut with a car and a gun is even more dangerous. A nut with a car and a samurai sword and a gun is more dangerous than a nut with just the car and sword. A nut with a car, a samurai sword two dobermans trained to eat babies and a gun is more dangerous than a nut with a car, a samurai sword two dobermans trained to eat babies without the gun. Whatever the danger level of a particular nut, a gun will add to that danger level 100% of the time. Fucking duh.

Sometimes you feel like a nut. Sometimes you don't.

Personally I don't care for Almond Joy or Mounds.
 

SouthtownKid

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Me neither. Anything with coconut sucks. Anyone who disagrees is not to be trusted.
 

LoneSage

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I suppose that makes me the most un-trustiness person this side of Appalachia then.


Almond Joy is fucking delicious. Just ask yourself when was the last time you had one. Give it another shot. Do it for ole sagey
 

SML

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delicias2.jpg


These are almost as good as Almond Joy. Guess they're mostly available in border states.
 

Ancient Flounder

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I was going to post something about posting and troll thread, but the convo at least went beyond the bad OP post.

Oh, and Almond Joy/Mounds are awful. Give me a Heath bar any day of the week.
 
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