A semi-serious discussion on transgender issues

[Taiso]

But you still won’t party with Neo Alec.

Never ever.

 

[@M]

I take a page from The Book of Sloth and bellow, "Hey, you guys!" Doesn't matter if the "guys" are women or not because Sloth has universal appeal and is also secretly Superman, plus his Mother dropped him on his head all the time, just like me, so, we're practically brothers.

 

[fake]

I just realized that Ellen Page is now Elliot Page...

 

[Lagduf]

Yeah that’s old news.

 

[fake]

Yeah that’s old news.

I saw an ad for the Silence of the Lambs TV show as though, "Why didn't they just get Ellen Page instead of this girl who kinda looks like Ellen Page?"

 

[radiantsvgun]

This is how a SJW rationalizes liking something they believe would otherwise be beneath them

They cloak it in virtue that exposes their narcissism.

You are amongst the worst people to ever post at this site.

Another Taiso post that goes straight to the sig.

 

[Taiso]

Another Taiso post that goes straight to the sig.

And the word 'amongst' was intentional.

 

[Poison Sama]

I see Biden has decided to elevate gender identity above sex.

Can women's sport survive long term under these pressures?

Can women survive long term under these pressures, come to think of it?

How are such a tiny minority group effecting so much sweeping change?

As you said, trans people are a tiny minority, so naturally there's a lot of ignorance when it comes to the subject. The whole sports debate is one of the major ways in which that ignorance manifests. Pretty much all of the sports-related "advantages" provided by testosterone evaporate after a couple years of HRT, so that's really a non-issue in the vast majority of cases. HRT just needs to be made a requirement for trans athletes to participate in the appropriate gender category. The few remaining issues can easily be addressed via dividing athletes into weight/height classes.

As for a tiny minority having a large effect on the rest of society, that's basically what happened after the end of slavery, and again after the end of segregation, and again after the civil rights movement. There were also similar concerns during the women's suffrage movement. This is no different. Do you really want to argue that those were mistakes?

 

[SouthtownKid]

Yeah, this is no different than the end of slavery. Have fun arguing that.

 

[LoneSage]

Hey say what you will about slavery, at least they had free housing and food.

 

[Poison Sama]

Yeah, this is no different than the end of slavery. Have fun arguing that.

Seems to be working out well so far actually. Thankfully, most people understand that civil rights are civil rights, and that number just keeps growing.

 

[SouthtownKid]

Seems to be working out well so far actually. Thankfully, most people understand that civil rights are civil rights, and that number just keeps growing.

Civil rights are civil rights, but there are fucking levels to things. Comparing those two is like the idiots comparing mandatory masks to the Jews being forced to wear gold stars in nazi-occupied Europe.

 

[Poison Sama]

Civil rights are civil rights, but there are fucking levels to things. Comparing those two is like the idiots comparing mandatory masks to the Jews being forced to wear gold stars in nazi-occupied Europe.

In case it wasn't obvious, I wasn't equating any of those things. I was comparing the reactions and excuses people were making against social progress and civil rights. The mask thing isn't even in the same universe, since that isn't discrimination based on an inherent trait. The only thing being anti-mask has in common with anything else I mentioned is that there's no logical argument to support it, like how there's no logical argument for being anti-LGBT or anti-desegregation or anti-suffrage.

 

[wyo]

trans people are a tiny minority

Then why are they (them?) taking up so much intellectual bandwidth in society? Roughly 1/200 US adults identify as trans. So this issue is approximately 1/200th as important as issues that affect everyone. So basically, stop wasting my bandwidth with this crap!

Ban stevenk plz.

 

[Lagduf]

I’m just curious what prompted the bump by Poison Sama.

 

[Poison Sama]

Then why are they (them?) taking up so much intellectual bandwidth in society? Roughly 1/200 US adults identify as trans. So this issue is approximately 1/200th as important as issues that affect everyone. So basically, stop wasting my bandwidth with this crap!

Ban stevenk plz.

I think it might have something to do with all the unjust discrimination that they still have to endure. But I do agree that banning stevenk might serve as an important first step in the right direction.

I’m just curious what prompted the bump by Poison Sama.

Oh, no big reason honestly. I was just looking through the last few pages of threads since I don't browse the forums as often as I used to. I was bored and this thread caught my eye, so I figured "eh, why the hell not?".

 

[StevenK]

You don't achieve civil rights for one small group by crapping on the rights of half of the population.

 

[SouthtownKid]

I'm also tired of people acting as if the trans community is all one thing rather than a spectrum of wildly different circumstances and wildly varying legitimacy. And even wildly varying sincerity.

 

[NeoSneth]

this is one of those things where i didnt have strong opinions, but im realizing you have to think this out and be prepared.
I now agree the sports aspect is overblown by the media. People can compete in most sports, but I do believe in the asterisk until we find something better.

Now,
One of our good friends has decided their daughter is now a "they". "they" is not even a teenager, and now this topic has become real. They was definitely not a traditional feminine girl. Where im conflicted is how this child came to this conclusion. was it coached, or is this child really struggling with identity?... I question certain aspects when she is advertising this on social media with her 12 yr old child. Maybe she's proud, or maybe it's an agenda. That is not my business i guess, but I struggle with the biology when these same children are being given drugs for off-label use of stopping puberty.

 

[Lagduf]

What are the professional medical organizations saying and or recommending with regard to the use of hormone based drugs (HRT, etc) in children?

What are the ethics of this?

I am aware of the medical diagnosis of gender-dysphoria, does that still play a factor or is it a diagnosis that will be phased out?

 

[LoneSage]

Now,
One of our good friends has decided their daughter is now a "they". "they" is not even a teenager, and now this topic has become real. They was definitely not a traditional feminine girl. Where im conflicted is how this child came to this conclusion. was it coached, or is this child really struggling with identity?... I question certain aspects when she is advertising this on social media with her 12 yr old child. Maybe she's proud, or maybe it's an agenda. That is not my business i guess, but I struggle with the biology when these same children are being given drugs for off-label use of stopping puberty.

Really makes me wonder how much media influences youth when it comes to this。Especially if kids are posting on places like tumblr. Expose kids to religion they will take it, expose kids to the idea of another gender and seeing it become mainstream and some will decide they want to be something else too? I really would like to see some long term studies on this.

 

[NeoSneth]

What are the professional medical organizations saying and or recommending with regard to the use of hormone based drugs (HRT, etc) in children?

What are the ethics of this?

I am aware of the medical diagnosis of gender-dysphoria, does that still play a factor or is it a diagnosis that will be phased out?

It's the medical part that is the most concern. There are already transitioned adults coming out against their parents.
HRT in children is not intended use of these drugs. HRT is actually off label in adults in most cases as well. Adults it seems to have a major benefit to people that really need to transition. But kids are still developing physically, hormonally and mentally. I've seen and read MD's speaking out against it, but they are dismissed as transphobic before you can even get into the scientific aspects.

with this topic and others, I tend to remain silent because there is no path to discussion. It's one sided. either you agree or you are a bigot.

 

[Lagduf]

What is the age where a minor can even consent to receiving drugs like that?

This seems awfully murky.

I still think we should have universal suffrage at 18 (vote, buy guns, drink alcohol, cosmetic or non “necessary” medical procedures, etc) it is as arbitrary as anything but at least it’s consistent and the same for everyone.

 

[ballzdeepx]

But kids are still developing physically, hormonally and mentally.
With this topic and others, I tend to remain silent because there is no path to discussion. It's one sided. either you agree or you are a bigot.

Exactly, and I tend to wonder if all of this is stemming from the nativity on the child's part, social media facilitating a like-minded acceptance group, coupled with the parent's willingness to give in to pressure due to how they themselves may be judged or labeled. If it proves easier to medicate your child with hormones rather than stand up publicly and look out for their well-being until they are actually able to make a life changing decision, these "parents" are akin to Munchausen syndrome by proxy.

If people can't have actual honest intellectual discussion around any topics without someone resorting to ruining the other party- they might as well be dictators without the power. Harmless on a grand scale, for now.

Social media is easily the worst thing to come about in the past 20 years, and I fully grasp the irony as I type this on a vidya game forum.

 

[sylvie]

They're just prepping them to be feminized sex race in the future. It's barely medically sound to be giving adults HRT let alone children. Gee, I wonder who else is really into the fact that kids will never reach puberty? People like Michael Jackson.