Anyone here collect toys/Action Figures?

[terry.330]

You’re like Lee Gray’s dream date.

Stefan knows more about TF, Diaclone and Micromen than anybody I've ever talked to. Actually any obscure Japanese toy from the 70s and 80s.

 

[HornheaDD]

I agree. Fuck Beast Wars for having a good story. The character design was anus.

Look man, Im gonna need you to switch back to that profile pic you had previously, post haste.

The dog just don't make sense.

 

[evil wasabi]

9 year old me would have loved to listen to him

 

[Syn]

The dog just don't make sense.

Actually it does. I guess you missed a particular thread.

 

[Stefan]

You’re like Lee Gray’s dream date.

One of my old neighbors once owned and operated a vintage toy & hobby shop. As a teen, I used to hang out there on Saturday mornings and lend a hand with miscellany. He routinely received a bunch of faxes & potpourri mail parcels from Japanese citizens with hole-in-the-wall otaku storefronts or weird new old stock.

Gradually learned a lot about postwar JP antiques, vinyl figures, genre movies, & older sci-fi toys/models just from laidback conversations, and paying attention while at the occasional estate sale or vintage toy show assisting said family friend.

 

[SignOfGoob]

I agree. Fuck Beast Wars for having a good story. The character design was anus.

Beast Wars sucked so bad. Horrible stupid toys. Bad editorial choices (making a monkey out of Prime) and animation so terrible it make the old show look good. Aesthetically shit on every single level...and a huge hit somehow. Same with Bayformers.

 

[HornheaDD]

Beast Wars sucked so bad. Horrible stupid toys. Bad editorial choices (making a monkey out of Prime) and animation so terrible it make the old show look good. Aesthetically shit on every single level...and a huge hit somehow. Same with Bayformers.

It was the writing. The way it fit into G1 and the return of Ravage, Dinobot's arc, etc. It was good writing. But I wholeheartedly agree with your statement.

 

[sylvie]

I agree. Fuck Beast Wars for having a good story. The character design was anus.

 

[SignOfGoob]

It was the writing. The way it fit into G1 and the return of Ravage, Dinobot's arc, etc. It was good writing. But I wholeheartedly agree with your statement.

The writing...please. I’ve heard this before. They say the same thing about Exosquad...and early Bob Seeger. Would anyone say this who had seen Zeta Gundam or MASH or All in the Family? Or is it just “good” when compared to crap like other Transformers series? Was it better than Seinfeld or ER or Next Generation or other 90s things? Somehow I doubt it but we only have the decades-old memories of people who were 10 at the time to go by because nobody actually watches this POS now.

Transformers the Movie satisfied me totally when I was 13 and it does now. The writing is more or less incoherent garbage except for a few one-liners. I’m not into Transformers for the writing. There is no room for good writing in good Transformers cartoons, only in the bad ones. The writing in those horrible Michael Bay movies is better than any of the cartoons...doesn’t help it.

 

[HornheaDD]

Ok first of all, Beast Wars came out in 1996, when I was 19. Secondly, I didn't actually watch Beast Wars until sometime in 2001 or 2002. So BW isn't something nostalgic for me in any capacity. I refused to watch Beast Wars because yes, it looked like shit and it has not aged well visually at all. Totally agree there.

But after hearing about the storyline, I decided to watch it and was pleasantly surprised. It is a well written show. It started off wonky because they were doing their own thing, but then at the end of the 1st season or early 2nd season they decided to tie it into G1. It got really good. The episode where Dinobot sacrifices himself to save some protohumans was pretty great too. Beast Machines was complete garbage in every way. Worst Transformers show ever other than Transformers Animated. Fuck that show in the stupid ass.

So no, the Bay movies do not have better writing than the cartoons. I mean its Michael Bay, man. Come on.

If you watched it and disagree that it is well written, then cool. You're just dumb :P But if you haven't watched it, and can attempt to stomach the visuals, check it out. You may enjoy it.

Toys still suck shit though. Why the fuck would I want a robot that turns into a rhino. Fuck off.

 

[SouthtownKid]

The writing...please. I’ve heard this before. They say the same thing about Exosquad...and early Bob Seeger. Would anyone say this who had seen Zeta Gundam or MASH or All in the Family?

What I'd say is you might need to rewatch MASH if you're holding it on as high a pedistal as those others. It's good, but it's more good for its time than it is timelessly great.

Beast Wars is no Zeta Gundam, but it's well-written for a US/Canadian kids show. And Hornhead is wrong about Beast Machines and Animated. I understand why Beast Machines upsets some Transformers fans, but the writing is as good as Beast Wars, if not occassionally better with more complex themes. And after the rocky first season, the writing in Animated is also strong for a children's show. Removing nostalgia from the equation, it's drastically better written than the G1 cartoon was.

But I know nostalgia is not easy to set aside. I've heard a few people say that the original Battlestar Galactica is better than the reboot series. Not simply that they enjoy the original more, but that the reboot was garbage while the original holds up as some unassailable classic. Which is of course complete nonsense spouted by idiots with zero objectivity.

 

[HornheaDD]

I dunno man, I couldn't stand Animated. Especially after they used the original G1 as a backstory and then completely disregard it by the end of the first 10 minutes. Plus that Johnny Bravo/What A Cartoon Show type animation is (to me) even uglier than Mainframe's abortion.

 

[SignOfGoob]

The problem here is that people want different things from Transformers. I want a cool looking toy ad for great toys. Beastwars, no matter the quality of the writing, will never be that. It doesn’t look cool and the toys suck. The entire concept for the toys sucks. A semi truck that turns into Santa Claus just rules. You don’t need a good cartoon. You don’t need any cartoon at all in fact, the OG Diaclone and Microman toys had no manga/anime. The only narrative exists in the TV ads and a few lines of text on the box. My feelings regarding “good writing” are the same I have for evangelists of Metal Gear Solid. That is, when I want good writing I read a book. Even Dan Brown is better than any video game. Even Dean Koontz. Even Daniele Steel is better than a video game. Video games are not where the great writers work!

Some people expect a well planned multimedia thing from Transformers. An Intellectual Property. The OG TFs were never made this way though. They were a brilliant accident. A truly international effort, and some of the most talented mecha designers ever worked on the machines before they were as well known for other things. The OG toys were made at a magic moment when the exchange rate and a surplus of low wage female workers made it possible to pump out a million Optimus Primes. As an added bonus, Takara and Hasbro brought in discontinued toy lines from dead companies for a variety not normally possible in such a short time frame and the entire ball of fire was remixed by Marvel. Even two or three years after the US line started, Transformers was pretty much a normal toy line. The yen had exploded in value making cost cutting the #1 priority for movie era and later toys. The contractors that created Hound and Jetfire and Reflector were drawn into the anime business and never made TFs again. Re-issues continued to be made only because of cheap labor in Taiwan, China, etc. Worst of all, the lawyers were in full effect so you couldn’t sell pirate toys with cigarette ads on them at Toys R Us anymore. By 1988 making a Powered Convoy or a Megatron was impossible.

Similarly, Transformers: The Movie is also a perfect storm of messed up and amazing scale. Nostalgia isn’t even half of it. As a huge fan of the uneven but occasional brilliance of 80s anime I have to say this may be the ultimate example. Some of the cuts are SO fucking rad, there is no comparing it to other things that are superior in many many ways but have no balls. Zeta Gundam never had anything like Daniel and Hot Rod fishing, Prime’s boss as fuck arrival on Earth, the planet of Junk, Kane, Spock, Weird Al and the dude from Unsolved Mysteries. Totally mind blowing. Convoy and everyone were too expensive to keep in production and new characters were needed. The Movie was a Viking funeral for the original cast and everything they made it possible.

 

[HornheaDD]

I see this more expansive story and lore as an evolution of the appreciation for a property. Take comic super heroes. Yes comics have always had a (tenuous) story line, but the way they work has evolved. Back in the golden age, there was no qualm about a dude putting on glasses and being able to hide is alter ego. Things weren't looked into all that deeply. People just accepted it because.. powers!

But then the kids that grew up loving the stories wanted more. HOW is it Superman can fly? What's the physics behind it? Why didn't people immediately recognize that it was just Clark with no glasses on? Sure, Bruce Wayne dresses as a bat and has cool trinkets, but how does he come up with them? Oh, well Wayne Enterprises is basically Batman R&D Limited. What happens with all the collateral damage that battles cause? Super Hero Registration Act, or - for the plebs - the "Sokovia Accords."

Stories got darker, more serious, and more cohesive. Same with Transformers. Would I go back and change G1 for what it was? Shit no. Those 21 minute commercials for toys (that totally fucking worked) are awesome for what they were. But then the fandom got a little more mature, wanted more detail. Background on Cybertron. Who were the Primes. What happened after the movie (because season 3 doesnt count). Who the fuck was Unicron, and who made him. So the next evolution, Beast Wars was intended as -yes, a show for children- but it wasn't necessarily a creature of the week type show, it had a storyline because it made people come back. The show was no longer really a commercial, it was a story.

TV is no longer the same. In the 80s, a show about a dude that flies a stolen battle-copter saving the day out of the goodness of his heart from week to week, even though he was looking for his brother the whole time - worked. . St. John took a back seat to the episodic...ness. Didnt really need a long drawn out story.

But now, you've got seasonal arcs. Forshadowing. Big bads that start out as little goods. Arcs that span the entire show. Spinoffs. Cinematic and Television shared universes.

The stories just grew. It doesn't invalidate the originals. Just like the admittedly badass Battlestar Galactica 2003 was fucking tiiiiiiits. Eddie Olmos? Tio Eddie? Shit - I'm in. But it didn't make the OG BSG shitty all of a sudden. It was just... more.

 

[LoneSage]

My feelings regarding “good writing” are the same I have for evangelists of Metal Gear Solid. That is, when I want good writing I read a book. Even Dan Brown is better than any video game. Even Dean Koontz. Even Daniele Steel is better than a video game. Video games are not where the great writers work!

BillyJoelZeta is OK with me.

Zeta Gundam never had anything like Daniel and Hot Rod fishing, Prime’s boss as fuck arrival on Earth, the planet of Junk, Kane, Spock, Weird Al and the dude from Unsolved Mysteries.

Transformers: The Movie is about as perfect as a children's cartoon movie can get. From the get-go where a planet gets fucking devoured and shows all its people get sucked up into a giant robot, it's balls to the wall. You don't even need to know the lore or be familiar with the franchise at all to enjoy the movie. I'll be completely honest and say I never cared about anything Transformers EXCEPT for the movie. It is the be-all, end-all to me.

 

[Yamazaki]

I collect anime figurines - can I come in?

 

[@M]

Yep. All toys welcome!

 

[Stefan]

You don’t need any cartoon at all in fact, the OG Diaclone and Microman toys had no manga/anime. The only narrative exists in the TV ads and a few lines of text on the box.

Microman / Takara SF Land Manga​

Henshin Cyborg Illustrated News(Shounen Champion Magazine 1974)

Microman Zone by Tetsuji Kataoka and Mikiya Tanaka (Shogaku Ninensei Monthly Magazine 1974-1975)

Takara/Design Mate internal “Presentation Manga” by Yuusuke Suguwara of Design Mate (circa 1974)

Android A by Shigeru Komatsuzaki (Terebi Magazine/TV Magazine 1975)

Tiny Titan Microman by Yoshihiro Moritou (Terebi Magazine/TV Magazine 1976-1980)

“The Lost Adventures”: Tiny Titan Microman by Yoshimitsu Shintaku (Adventure King/Bouken Oh1976-1981)
Year One (1976)
Year Two (1977)
Year Three (1978)
Year Four (1979)
Year Five+ (1980-March 1981 final)

Zero Zero Magazine's Microman short segments “encoded” manga (1977)

New Microman by Shigeto Ikehara (Bouken Oh 1982-1983)

Microman: MicroChange by Takeshi Kojo and written by Yoshinobu Kato (Bouken Oh/TV Anime Magazine 1983-1984)

Microman News: MIcroChange by Yoshihiro Moritou with Yoshinobu Kato (TV Magazine and Microman Secret File 1984)

Timanic monthly manga circa 1978

Diaclone manga(1982 original and Car Robots)

 

[Tripredacus]

That Microman isn't related to Micro-Change. Only die-hard psycho fans care about Microman proper or Henshin Cyborg. If you want to talk about pre-TFs that came from toylines that did have a legit manga or anime, then you are only going to be looking at Macross and Dorvack for the most part.

 

[Stefan]

That Microman isn't related to Micro-Change. Only die-hard psycho fans care about Microman proper or Henshin Cyborg. If you want to talk about pre-TFs that came from toylines that did have a legit manga or anime, then you are only going to be looking at Macross and Dorvack for the most part.

Apparently, you haven't got a clue as to what you are talking about.

 

[neo_mao]

I don’t know how accurate it is and I was only half-paying attention....but there was that Toy documentary on Netflix that had an episode on the origin of Transformers and it was pretty entertaining.

I cried a little when they gave that old dude Perceptor.

 

[HornheaDD]

I don’t know how accurate it is and I was only half-paying attention....but there was that Toy documentary on Netflix that had an episode on the origin of Transformers and it was pretty entertaining.

I cried a little when they gave that old dude Perceptor.

The Toys that Made Us.

Cool show.

 

[@M]

Heads up: Walmart's Deal for Days event ends early tomorrow morning (5 AM I think). They've got all sorts of shit on sale, even some 50% off deals, including toys. I ordered some Marvel Legends, Transformers, etc., and, of course, LEGOs, this afternoon.

 

[Tripredacus]

Apparently, you haven't got a clue as to what you are talking about.

The two examples of Micro Change fiction you point out are filler pages from magazines that no one knew existed until recently. Certainly neither falls under the "anime/manga" argument that BillyJoelZeta was making. No one has ever contested that Microman had major official media in Japan, just not the portions relating to the Micro Change toys that became TFs.

The only thing even close was Diatron 5, the movie that many people thought was an official Diaclone cartoon for years and even to this day.

 

[HornheaDD]

Actually it does. I guess you missed a particular thread.

Ah I see now. I saw this week's John Oliver and now get it.

So, I'll allow it.

This time.