Rassilon said:
Rogue Trader IS 1st edition... They are a bit over the top, but the later supplements for RT are great (the Ork 'ere we go and freebooterz books are tops, and the red/yellow compendium/compilation books have a bit more coherent rules/army lists and a lot of good stuff). I very rarely play RT, as it is overly complicated and inconsistent, but overly complex is better than overly simple (its easy to leave out or not use some sections of the rules).
2ed is a good compromise between complexity and playability, with a lot more consistency and coherency across armies.
I have played with all versions of the rules, and 2nd edition is the best in EVERY way.
I've given 3/4th ed rules many many chances, but every time i played i would find another irritating facet to the rules (on top of the glaringly obvious garbage).
30 mins for 1rd of HtoH? you must be pretty slow... But I (and Late) have already mentioned, I like to use rogue trader HtoH rules (the one area where 3/4th went in the right direction, but then blew right past where it should be).
Do yourself a favor, find a set of 2ed rules and find some regular people to play casually with. Its a much more enjoyable experience in all ways over trudging along with the twit-fest 40k has become, with the later rules and ever younger players (open 40k games at a local game shop here are only open to UNDER 18yrs old...)
Firstly, I admit I'm fairly ignorant about 1st ed. I thought Rogue Trader was a separate game, so I concede that point. You do have to admit it's somewhat antiquated though, don't you?
Secondly, I don't begrudge the fact that you happen to like the 2nd ed. No one's saying you shouldn't. What I take issue with is people saying shit like "3rd ed. is trash!", etc. 'Cause it ain't. And it sure as fuck isn't dumbed down, it's just more streamlined. There's a difference.
I got sick of character-based Warhammer a long time ago, and 40K 2nd ed. is a pretty bad perpretrator of this. When one of your elite characters can slaughter half the enemy force with nary a scratch on him, that's bullshit. The single biggest change from 2nd to 3rd edition is the reduction of the effectiveness of characters, and I support that move wholeheartedly.
Thirdly, I said 30 mins for a round of hand to hand for dramatic effect... Though in a bigger game, it could easily take that long if you're not hurrying. The bottom line is that 2nd edition takes way, way longer to play, period. I don't care how familiar with the rules you are.
Finally, and this is the most important point: the later editions are just plain
more fun to play. Having clearer rules that are well defined reduces the inevitable arguments, and I don't care what you and your cronies say, they're more balanced (bear in mind no one's saying they're perfect, I'm just saying they're
more balanced). I've been around 40K a long long time, and 2nd edtion can become a real chore to play. 3rd edition is a more exciting and fun game, period. And that's really the only point one really needs to make on the subject.
All I'm saying is get off your high horse and stop calling me an idiot because I like a more streamlined and balanced game. I happen to think it's a superior product, but fuck, that doesn't make me some kind of gibbering idiot. So bloody well relax already man. You'll live longer. (And concede I'm right while you're at it, it'll save time.
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The only thing you'll get out of me is that I do miss a few things about 2nd ed., like some of the stuff we haven't seen since. Weird Boyz and Cyboars (which anyone can agree were awesome) spring to mind. Otherwise, I'd rather have my teeth drilled than play a game of 2nd ed. over 3rd (or 4th) ed.
P.S. Late, you are a fucktard. The sooner you come to grips with this, the sooner you'll be more fulfilled as a person. If that is indeed possible, asshole.
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