Attn: Jewish members

[Magnaflux]

What on Earth does "Oy Vey" mean?

 

[RAINBOW PONY]

this thread made me go Oy Vey

 

[neo>all]

you should just PM syringe

 

[Magnaflux]

you should just PM syringe

I don't think he's really Jewish, I was hoping DanAdamKOF would chime in.

 

[RAINBOW PONY]

I don't think he's really Jewish

he's a log cabin jew

 

[Takumaji]

I'm not Jewish, but I think 'Oy Vey' is a Jiddish version of the German 'Au Weia' (slang) or 'Au Weh!' (official language), which is universally used to express surprise, sadness or (minor) physical pain. It roughly translates to 'oh man!' or 'Jeez!'.

I could be wrong, tho.

 

[bokmeow]

I'm not Jewish, but I think 'Oy Vey' is a Jiddish version of the German 'Au Weia' (slang) or 'Au Weh!' (official language), which is universally used to express surprise, sadness or (minor) physical pain. It roughly translates to 'oh man!' or 'Jeez!'.

I could be wrong, tho.

I think you're mostly on the money on this one Takumaji. This is what I found:

We can learn a lot about people from how they give expression to feelings of shock or sorrow. Different cultures have formulated a variety of quasi-verbal ways of instinctively reacting to distressing situations. In some cases it will be through an obscenity or blasphemy. Among Jews however there are two expressions which are most familiar to us. Ashkenazic Jews will cry "Oy vey!" whereas Sepharadim will blurt out the very similar-sounding "Way, way!"

The "vey" component of "oy vey" exists in German as well ("weh"), and might have entered Yiddish from there--though, as we shall observe below, this is not necessarily so. The "oy" however does not seem traceable to any outside source. This seems to hold true as well of the "Way" of North African Jews, which does not (insofar as my inquiries have revealed so far) show up in the vernacular languages of their Muslim neighbours. These facts invite further investigation.

"Oy" is actually an old and authentic Hebrew word. It appears with some frequency in the Bible, where it is usually rendered in English as "woe!" It is not always spoken by Jews, and hence we find such scenes as that in 1 Samuel 4:7-8, in which the Philistines are depicted as crying "Oy!" in confused anticipation of an Israelite attack.

In the book of Ecclesiastes we find a variant of this interjection, pronounced "Ee!" as in: "Ee to him that is alone when he falls" (4:10). This form seems to have become the prevalent one by the time we get to the era which produced the Mishnah (1st to 3rd centuries C.E.), and appears in such phrases as "Ee to me whether I speak or remain silent!" and "Ee to the wicked and to his neighbour!" [By the way, you won't find this form in the normal printed editions of the Mishnah, which replaced the strange-sounding "ee" with the more familiar "oy." The quotations listed above are from reliable manuscripts].

It is when we reach the period of the Talmud and Midrash (3rd to 6th centuries) that Jews begin using a new expression in order to give vent to their pain and tribulation: the familiar "vay' or "way!" This word appears in dozens of passages in rabbinic literature, as the equivalent of its older cousins "oy" and "ee." "Vay" (or "way") was apparently not considered a distinctively Jewish expression at the time, since the same word was in use in both Greek ("ouai") and Latin ("vae"), carrying precisely the same meanings as their Hebrew counterparts.

Thus for example, the midrash relates the following charming anecdote about Rabban Gamaliel who blessed his daughter on the birth of her first child with the rather upsetting prayer "May the word `vay" never budge from your lips." When his daughter voiced her dismay at receiving such a "blessing," the doting zeydeh explained his real intention: His wish was that she might have many occasions to lament about such domestic "troubles" as "Vay, my baby won't eat! Vay, my baby doesn't want to go to school!" Rabban Gamaliel astutely perceived that there are certain types of parental torments that we learn to prefer over the alternatives.

And just so that you should not be mistaken into supposing that Jews only knew how to suffer, we should make it clear that talmudic literature knows also of an appropriate interjection for joyous occasions: "Wah!" The similarity between the sounds of way and wah often furnished occasions for elaborate word-plays, which hinted subtly at just how fragile the borderline between sorrow and joy often is.

Source: http://www.ucalgary.ca/~elsegal/Shokel/920302_Oy_Vay.html

 

[DanAdamKOF]

y vey, boychick, how can you not understand "oy vey"? You want I should explain it to you?

Basically it's a Yiddish slang expression of discontent. "Oh jeez" "Oh woe" and so forth. Sometimes you'll see the more drawn-out version, "Oy vey is mir", which says that you specifically are expressing discontent (something like "oh woe is me").

Let me find a nifty little paperback I have, Every Goy's Guide to Common Jewish Expressions, and see what that has to say.....

oy: Oh.
oy vay; oy vay iz mir: Oh, woe (sometimes, "oh, no!" is a better translation; Oh, woe is me.

 

[LWK]

I don't think he's really Jewish, I was hoping DanAdamKOF would chime in.

No, he actually is jewish, hes just super annoyed that people never stop bringing it up, so recently hes tried to pretend otherwise.

 

[bokmeow]

y vey, boychick, how can you not understand "oy vey"? You want I should explain it to you?

Basically it's a Yiddish slang expression of discontent. "Oh jeez" "Oh woe" and so forth. Sometimes you'll see the more drawn-out version, "Oy vey is mir", which says that you specifically are expressing discontent (something like "oh woe is me").

Let me find a nifty little paperback I have, Every Goy's Guide to Common Jewish Expressions, and see what that has to say.....

Haha nice, I think I have to pick up that paperback for myself.

But if I start peppering my speech with Jewish expressions, I'm afraid real Jews would find me condescending and pretentious

 

[syringe]

No, he actually is jewish, hes just super annoyed that people never stop bringing it up, so recently hes tried to pretend otherwise.

You wish.

The bigger issue here is that you can't stop following me around or talking about me for more than fifteen minutes you fucking obsessed faggot.

 

[LWK]

You wish.

The bigger issue here is that you can't stop following me around or talking about me for more than fifteen minutes you fucking obsessed faggot.

Total hyprocrisy, its you who just recently swamped the warroom with shit about me. Stop making and ass of yourself trying to be clever.

you're a self hating half jew

 

[NeoTheranthrope]

God just go get a room you two. You're gaying up an otherwise decent thread.

 

[Magnaflux]

I paid a visit to my mother, who is in the candidacy process for the Methodist church and she gave me some literature on the Kabbalah. I did some research into the popular culture aspect of it as it stands today and dug a bit deeper into the old Jewish tradition of it.

I believe the Kabbalah is utter BS. I can't fathom a God who would give us the Law (Torah) and leave some meaning 'hidden' that needs to be decoded.

Any thoughts?

 

[DanAdamKOF]

I paid a visit to my mother, who is in the candidacy process for the Methodist church and she gave me some literature on the Kabbalah. I did some research into the popular culture aspect of it as it stands today and dug a bit deeper into the old Jewish tradition of it.

I believe the Kabbalah is utter BS. I can't fathom a God who would give us the Law (Torah) and leave some meaning 'hidden' that needs to be decoded.

Any thoughts?

I don't have that strong of an opinion on Kabbalah, seeing as I hardly know anything about it (never learned specifically about it in Middle/Sunday School), but I do hate how it's "trendy" among celebreties. People honestly would, just like that, decide to take up traditions, believe in one God, do the holidays, keep kosher, etc. just to look "neat" and have a small group of other B-Lists to talk to at the next party? Sickening, and very shallow (since I'm sure they don't do all of the above but are Kabbalists in name only).

 

[Magnaflux]

I don't have that strong of an opinion on Kabbalah, seeing as I hardly know anything about it (never learned specifically about it in Middle/Sunday School), but I do hate how it's "trendy" among celebreties. People honestly would, just like that, decide to take up traditions, believe in one God, do the holidays, keep kosher, etc. just to look "neat" and have a small group of other B-Lists to talk to at the next party? Sickening, and very shallow (since I'm sure they don't do all of the above but are Kabbalists in name only).

Traditionally, only married Jewish males above 40 would be allowed to study Kabbalah, and only with the guidance of a learned Rabbi.

Some of the trapping of Kabbalah have been mass produced and sold at retail outlets like Targe!

 

[Takumaji]

I paid a visit to my mother, who is in the candidacy process for the Methodist church and she gave me some literature on the Kabbalah. I did some research into the popular culture aspect of it as it stands today and dug a bit deeper into the old Jewish tradition of it.

I believe the Kabbalah is utter BS. I can't fathom a God who would give us the Law (Torah) and leave some meaning 'hidden' that needs to be decoded.

Any thoughts?

IMO, the Kabbalah and its aspects as laid out in Sepher Jezira and the Zohar is extremly interesting and enlightening, but like many other great religious hermetical traditions, it got watered down and integrated into popular culture as some sort of numerological game with a Semitic background, much to the dismay of traditional/orthodox Kabbalists who literally foamed at the mouth when pop stars like Madonna publicly 'advertised" the Kabbalah as some sort of problem solver for those who are through with most common religions and religious groups. Nothing could be more wrong.

The hidden meaning of the Kabbalah is two-fold. There's the theoretical Kabbalah, and much has been written about it, so it's well documented but rarely understood, then there's the practical Kabbalah, but it's shrowded in mystery, there only are a small handfull of manuscripts about it, that's why most ppl refer to the two 'books' I've mentioned before when they talk about the Kabbalah.

Just like parts of the Torah consist of laws which were meant to set up and control relationships between humans, the Kabbalah, once fully understood, is the guideline for the relationship between god and man, it's believed to be able to open the meta level on which you will get deeper insights into the nature of the universe.

Thing is, the reason why most western/christian scientists and spiritualists have a hard time with Kabbalistic traditions stems from the fact that most of them refuse to learn a thing or two about Judaism, which is the essential background to all Jewish hermetic/magical traditions. Without knowledge of certain historical events or streams of thoughts within the Jewish communities all over the world and over the course of several millenia, the whole thing hardly makes sense... it'd take a lifetime of learning, and even then I'd probably only know that I know nothing at all...

However, Semitic history is so full of cuts and radical changes that most of the original lore got lost or adjusted to a current status quo over the centuries, that's why it can be very difficult to separate folklore, legends and myths from actual spiritual content, and to be honest even tho I'm not a Kabbalist or something (I'm just a, say, interested bystander), it pisses me off to no end to see yet another culture partly getting sold out.

 

[Magnaflux]

IMO, the Kabbalah and its aspects as laid out in Sepher Jezira and the Zohar is extremly interesting and enlightening, but like many other great religious hermetical traditions, it got watered down and integrated into popular culture as some sort of numerological game with a Semitic background, much to the dismay of traditional/orthodox Kabbalists who literally foamed at the mouth when pop stars like Madonna publicly 'advertised" the Kabbalah as some sort of problem solver for those who are through with most common religions and religious groups. Nothing could be more wrong.

The hidden meaning of the Kabbalah is two-fold. There's the theoretical Kabbalah, and much has been written about it, so it's well documented but rarely understood, then there's the practical Kabbalah, but it's shrowded in mystery, there only are a small handfull of manuscripts about it, that's why most ppl refer to the two 'books' I've mentioned before when they talk about the Kabbalah.

Just like parts of the Torah consist of laws which were meant to set up and control relationships between humans, the Kabbalah, once fully understood, is the guideline for the relationship between god and man, it's believed to be able to open the meta level on which you will get deeper insights into the nature of the universe.

Thing is, the reason why most western/christian scientists and spiritualists have a hard time with Kabbalistic traditions stems from the fact that most of them refuse to learn a thing or two about Judaism, which is the essential background to all Jewish hermetic/magical traditions. Without knowledge of certain historical events or streams of thoughts within the Jewish communities all over the world and over the course of several millenia, the whole thing hardly makes sense... it'd take a lifetime of learning, and even then I'd probably only know that I know nothing at all...

However, Semitic history is so full of cuts and radical changes that most of the original lore got lost or adjusted to a current status quo over the centuries, that's why it can be very difficult to separate folklore, legends and myths from actual spiritual content, and to be honest even tho I'm not a Kabbalist or something (I'm just a, say, interested bystander), it pisses me off to no end to see yet another culture partly getting sold out.

I realize my limited understanding of Jewish heritage, traditions, and folklore. I have difficulty understanding some sort of meta mythology as to the creation of God and what created Him. For me, this just seems silly and impractical. Call me a Methodist, but I don't much worry about those things and instead focus on pragmatic religion as to how I relate with and treat others as well as my relationship with the Father and how this transponds to walking the walk of faith.

I do enjoy apologetics and in depth study of the Bible, and the philosophical ramifications to satisfy my intellect.

 

[Pocketgamer]

I dunno!

 

[Takumaji]

I realize my limited understanding of Jewish heritage, traditions, and folklore. I have difficulty understanding some sort of meta mythology as to the creation of God and what created Him.

According to the books I've read about the topic, this is why the Kabbalah has been created, to act as a some sort of translator program between the mysteries of the universe (including the mystery of God) and the lmited capabilities of the human mind.

To be honest I also have difficulties understanding some of those weird concepts. The Kabbalah is hermetical and mystical on purpose, and it also was (and still is) the source of many stupid rumours about Jewish mages and all sorts of shady magical practises, including the creation of Golems and whatnot.... yet it remains an interesting spiritual (and intellectual) challenge to try to decode at least some of those mysteries, not so much as a scholar on his way to enlightment but as a gamer who gets a kick out of solving complex puzzles.

For me, this just seems silly and impractical. Call me a Methodist, but I don't much worry about those things and instead focus on pragmatic religion as to how I relate with and treat others as well as my relationship with the Father and how this transponds to walking the walk of faith.

I do enjoy apologetics and in depth study of the Bible, and the philosophical ramifications to satisfy my intellect.

I also think this is the best way of seeing it. Why making things unnecessarily complex, love is the message, and it doesn't need mysticism to understand that.

However, mysticism has its purpose when it comes to finding our place in the universe, just like philosophy or philosophical bible exegeses, as long as this does not turn into an idol of itself... just like Good Ol' Daddy once said, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me" ...

 

[neo>all]

I dunno!

it might mean that.