Che. Anyone looking forward to seeing this?
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genjiglove
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I hope it shows Che Guavara as the piece of shit he really was.
This movie will no doubt sell some t-shirts to retarded college kids though.
This movie will no doubt sell some t-shirts to retarded college kids though.
BIG
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genjiglove
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I can understand the Che loving to some degree, the whole "standing up for what you believe in" thing and all. But he was also a murderer. And I'd be willing to bet that most of the kids glorifying him have no idea what kind of stuff he did.
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Maybe it will be like the Pancho Villa film.
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Kids glorifying Che are retarded. They're the same as the Scarface kids, only they think they're smart/political/worldly.
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I think it's most important that we discuss this:
http://gawker.com/5107510/che-guevara-big-masturbator
http://gawker.com/5107510/che-guevara-big-masturbator
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If you can make a stretch from Che to those guys... Then I can make a stretch to guys like.
George Washington
Abraham Lincoln..
\
aria
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I've been looking forward since I'd heard Del Toro had signed on --though at the time I figured it would end up in development hell or something.
When I heard how long it ended up, and how it took major festivals by storm, I became stoked.
Che is a fascinating person.
Both the idolization that people are complaining about and the equally blind hate both miss the complexity of the individual.
He probably believed more in the ideas of proletariat revolution than any of his major contemporaries --ideally it would be interesting to explore what brought him each step further in his willingness to achieve those ends. The realities of guerrilla warfare and radical regime change are never pretty; is it possible to morally forgive what it required? I do not believe so, but it does not automatically throw continued examinations of the individual into the bin, either (otherwise you start falling towards a variant of Godwin's Law that's espoused by the comically bitter parts of the Cuban Exile community). His embrace of Maoism made him seem particularly radical, though I wonder --had he seen the failure of the Cultural Revolution-- would he have changed his views. Its his continued idealism that's a source of inspiration --the idea that the fight against injustice must continue. At what cost? I believe Guevara genuinely thought he was helping all mankind; perhaps it was the same mentality that led him to become a doctor.
I'm interesting in reading arguments against my position, if people feel like posting.
When I heard how long it ended up, and how it took major festivals by storm, I became stoked.
Che is a fascinating person.
Both the idolization that people are complaining about and the equally blind hate both miss the complexity of the individual.
He probably believed more in the ideas of proletariat revolution than any of his major contemporaries --ideally it would be interesting to explore what brought him each step further in his willingness to achieve those ends. The realities of guerrilla warfare and radical regime change are never pretty; is it possible to morally forgive what it required? I do not believe so, but it does not automatically throw continued examinations of the individual into the bin, either (otherwise you start falling towards a variant of Godwin's Law that's espoused by the comically bitter parts of the Cuban Exile community). His embrace of Maoism made him seem particularly radical, though I wonder --had he seen the failure of the Cultural Revolution-- would he have changed his views. Its his continued idealism that's a source of inspiration --the idea that the fight against injustice must continue. At what cost? I believe Guevara genuinely thought he was helping all mankind; perhaps it was the same mentality that led him to become a doctor.
I'm interesting in reading arguments against my position, if people feel like posting.
BIG
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might've posted that on one of your movie threads.
bobak, i'm catching both parts this thurs night at the landmark..4 1/2hrs.
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I pretty much share Bobak's view of Che Gueverra...
That he is more complex than most simplified views like "Murdering Piece of Shit" and "Hero".
I also don't get why people are so up in arms about his image (which in some ways is more a testament to an iconic photograph than the person himself) on commercial clothing made by slaves in asia and bought in American shopping malls... If anything, that is the ultimate FUCK YOU. Like having an imprint of Sadam on the sole of your shoe.
That he is more complex than most simplified views like "Murdering Piece of Shit" and "Hero".
I also don't get why people are so up in arms about his image (which in some ways is more a testament to an iconic photograph than the person himself) on commercial clothing made by slaves in asia and bought in American shopping malls... If anything, that is the ultimate FUCK YOU. Like having an imprint of Sadam on the sole of your shoe.
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I just hate when people wear the image of a man they know nothing about.
That is ignorant and those people are stupid. To deny that this problem is not rampant with all the shirts of Che is, frankly, absurd.
I don't care for Che, really, as a historical figure/person but I wouldn't have a problem with a person wearing his image if they actually knew a bit about him and were wearing the shirt because they admired some aspect of him/respected some part of his ideology/actions, etc.
I blame RATM.
That is ignorant and those people are stupid. To deny that this problem is not rampant with all the shirts of Che is, frankly, absurd.
I don't care for Che, really, as a historical figure/person but I wouldn't have a problem with a person wearing his image if they actually knew a bit about him and were wearing the shirt because they admired some aspect of him/respected some part of his ideology/actions, etc.
I blame RATM.
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I blame SNK
PS: are there any board games based on the Cuban Revolution or the Bay of Pigs? Or Angola for that matter?
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All I've got to say again with regards to Guevera is, God bless the CIA.
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I blame SNK
...
PS: are there any board games based on the Cuban Revolution or the Bay of Pigs? Or Angola for that matter?
Guevara (the game) is awesome. The man? Not so much.
aria
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Nah, RATM knew exactly what they were invoking with Che.
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The boardgame Angola, by the Ragnar brothers, is very excellent apparently. It came out in the late 80s. It is getting a reprint with updated graphics by Multi-Man Publishing. Not sure when it will come out, but not at least until late next year because it still needs to get more pre-orders before production will go full steam ahead. I plan on picking it up once it arrives. It is for 2-4 players.
I'd be surprised if there is not at least one wargame covering Bay of Pigs or the Cuban Revolution. Now, if they're good games is a different matter.
I agree that RATM most certainly knew why they were invoking his image and in that respect it made complete sense.
But did the fans who didn't really look into RATM's politics or seek to understand their message know why Che was on their?
How many RATM fans even know who Leonard Peltier is?
Thus I suppose to be more correct i'd say that I blame ignorant RATM fans.
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