Connecticut Elementary School Shooting (AKA "Gun Control Debate" thread...)

[Sex Machine]

I think this is where our members from foreign countries don't follow us. I'd say a large chunk of them are abiding by constitutions that were made within the past 100 years or so. We, as a country, are pretty unique in using such an old document, and our fervent adherence is also pretty unique. I am not saying whether good or bad as I still don't feel this is the thread to argue such topics, but I just want to bring the point up. By western world standards our constitution is pretty ancient.

Basically the argument is just a back and forth of
"its the right of our constitution"
"your constitution is over 200 years old"
but with different wording.

Agreed and back then you had to worry about hunting for food, attacks by perhaps the british, etc. Now days, you don't need to hunt for food and I highly doubt we're in danger of being invaded any time soon.

 

[Rade K]

Check out theonion.

 

[Sex Machine]

Their satire is great.

 

[RevQuixo]

How is having firearms and comprehensive social welfare "having it both ways?"

If we actually cared for our poor in this country we'd probably be a lot better off.

Unfortunately access to arms is a constitutionally guaranteed right and social welfare is a policy choice.

It's more a commentary on the fact that we burn the candle from both ends and then wonder why we get burned. Banning guns is a kneejerk reaction to the problem, and while it would minimize incidents of "snap decision shootings" it wouldn't minimize criminal access to guns. it is the "quick & easy" solution though...which unfortunately seems to be the only thing that anyone wants to do anymore.

If we had better education, social programs, poverty reduction, etc...then that could be a reducer of gun violence too..but that's "hard" and would raise people's taxes...

 

[Lagduf]

If we had better education, social programs, poverty reduction, etc...then that could be a reducer of gun violence too..but that's "hard" and would raise people's taxes...

We need JFK.

 

[Rade K]

We need JFK.

Nixon was a better man.

 

[Sex Machine]

JFK had marilyn, he gets points from me.

 

[Kristian Meller]

Lyndon Johnson was pretty hardcore with the social programs.

 

[smokehouse]

It's more a commentary on the fact that we burn the candle from both ends and then wonder why we get burned. Banning guns is a kneejerk reaction to the problem, and while it would minimize incidents of "snap decision shootings" it wouldn't minimize criminal access to guns. it is the "quick & easy" solution though...which unfortunately seems to be the only thing that anyone wants to do anymore.

If we had better education, social programs, poverty reduction, etc...then that could be a reducer of gun violence too..but that's "hard" and would raise people's taxes...

BINGO.

I say this all of the time but last I checked murder, rape, kidnapping, heroin, meth, drunk driving, assault and battery, theft...all are highly illegal and all are happening, right now, even as I type this.

The problem is us...the people. WE need to change ourselves, not white wash the world with laws and bans. Heroin is illegal everywhere in this country but you can get it damn near anywhere and someone is shooting/snorting/smoking some right now.

People that cry for gun bans are really fooling themselves into thinking this will solve something. Unless we as a society deal with this, address mental illness better, address our violent tendencies better...no ban or law will ever work.

This is starry-eyed-dreamer shit but it would be awesome if we could emotionally evolve to the point where firearms were never needed for defense...but human nature never changes and that will never happen.

 

[Sex Machine]

JFK and Clinton get the cool points from me, with their work in the oral office.

 

[Lagduf]

Nixon was a better man.

He helped create the EPA.

Ford is the worst president.

I was mostly referring to JFK's famous "we do these things not because they are easy, but because they are hard" speech.

 

[Yodd]

I think if weed was legal in all 50 states we would see a dramatic reduction in violent crimes.


I await first year statistics from Colorado and Washington State after the first full year of legal marijuana (if they make it that far).

 

[DangerousK]

He helped create the EPA.

Ford is the worst president.

I was mostly referring to JFK's famous "we do these things not because they are easy, but because they are hard" speech.

Maybe that's why Oswald opted for a mail order rifle?

 

[Lagduf]

I have a 6.5 Carcano rifle - the exact type of rifle Oswald used to kill Kennedy. I also have some very nice match ammunition for it.

I also didn't pass a background check to get it.

PS: I can also legally receive certain guns through the mail, shipped to my doorstep.

 

[Fuzzytaco]

So was slavery. I find your rationale outmoded.

I think we are at a point where we can no longer "have it both ways". We either can't have guns or we must have better socially funded infrastructure programs (ie; more taxes, socialized mental health, etc.).

True libertarianism isn't going to work if your neighbors are armed and crazy and nothing is out there to stop them.

I don't believe our country was built on slavery, and there was nothing in the constitution guaranteeing the right to own people, there just wasn't anything in there specifically prohibiting it until later on.

I am not against tax dollars going to worthwhile things like mental health programs. More money in programs to help the mentally ill would also help decrease the homeless population.

 

[Lagduf]

A large portion of the economic prosperity of this country was built on slavery. Much like English prosperity was built on her colonial empire and the backs of her working class peons who toiled day in and day out in the grueling conditions of the industrial revolution. Come on now.

 

[Fuzzytaco]

A large portion of the economic prosperity of this country was built on slavery. Much like English prosperity was built on her colonial empire and the backs of her working class peons who toiled day in and day out in the grueling conditions of the industrial revolution. Come on now.

I haven't read up on history in quite a while and my memory sucks. I guess I'm one of the assholes who is doomed to repeat history, because I forget so much of it.

 

[68k]

Look up to see if most of these people who go on rampages have criminal histories prior. In most cases no, so they can easily go into a store and get a gun. Gun Laws=No store to get a gun.

He took his parents guns, so he essentially stole them.

Your argument is void.

 

[IDCHAPPY]

We had a similar incident in Scotland about 17 years ago, terrible shit to happen.
Thought's go out to all that lost loved ones :-(

 

[smokehouse]

He took his parents guns, so he essentially stole them.

Your argument is void.

I've only read 5-6 articles about the shootings but not once did any of them say that...and it bothers me. They keep saying something to the effect of "the Glock, Sig and Bushmaster, firearms which were purchased legally" but never the fact that the shooter stole them...it doesn't matter if they belonged to his mother, they weren't his. Therefore the shooter used stolen firearms.

 

[DangerousK]

I have a 6.5 Carcano rifle - the exact type of rifle Oswald used to kill Kennedy. I also have some very nice match ammunition for it.

I also didn't pass a background check to get it.

PS: I can also legally receive certain guns through the mail, shipped to my doorstep.

Have you ever gone target shooting with it?

I'd love to know how accurate, or inaccurate you find the gun.

 

[Sex Machine]

68k, If his parents couldn't get a gun which shows, responsibly they shouldn't be able to because they can't keep them locked, etc. Then he wouldn't have had it, your argument sucks.

 

[OrochiEddie]

I read a valid point somewhere (well I thought valid) that the glorification of the shooters helps perpetuate these mass killings. These individuals who go on these shootings are hurt individuals, something is wrong with their lives that is causing them to feel that suicide is the answer. That in itself is tragic enough. There is no evidence to prove, but I feel that individuals who go on these rampages feel that by killing a bunch of other people they intend to show their hurt, it is a cry for a help in a morbid way. They know the TV crews will showcase the tragedy for months to come and that persons life will be examined endlessly.

We shouldn't be bringing the killer to the lynch mob, there is no point since they are dead. The more we do that the more it shows that if you go out in a rampage you will be showcased and recognized. You are no longer the hurt individual who killed themself, but now the monster who killed endless innocent people.

I don't even remember the person who killed my friend. I don't remember the name, I recall he had a tattoo of Jigsaw, but that is all I can recall. I don't care really. I care about the people who didn't deserve this. There are always going to be scumbags, but we can't keep placing them on the pedestal. We glorify them.

 

[Spike Spiegel]

Great post, Eddie.

 

[Lagduf]

Have you ever gone target shooting with it?

I'd love to know how accurate, or inaccurate you find the gun.

I haven't had it long - my cousin gave it to me.

I imagine mine is not very accurate simply because it was "sporterized" to make it look like a hunting rifle versus a full length battle rifle. They cut the barrel WAY back on my rifle which normally wouldn't necessarily change the accuracy of the rifle - except that this rifle uses "Gain Twist" rifling where the twist rate of the rifling at breech is much slower than at the muzzle. When you cut the barrel short is fucks up that transition up and doesn't allow the bullet to reach its intended twist rate (and thus doesn't stabilize properly in flight.)

I also need some clips for the it. The rifle is a near worthless single shot with them.