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Come on darksoft you know better than that.
Darksoft's Next Project
- Thread starter darksoft
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Come on darksoft you know better than that.
werejag
Galford's Poppy Trainer
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its the kind of post given after an active discussion was shut down by showing you dont want one. thanks for the before discussion ill leave it to the rest.
julencin2000
Dodgeball Yakuza
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Chill people, we're all welcome here. What Raz means, werejag, is to look to the bigger picture. I respect Raz and I respect Darksoft, two big brains here. Please keep the brainstorm coming, it's really nice to see you discussing in a smart way.
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I am not currently mod in this forum and have no power of such matters, your issue there is with someone else. Even if I were a mod I would never use that forum power to control debates I was active in. I would request other mods moderate and step in if they felt it is needed.
What we are talking about here is totally unrelated to the phoenix edition situation and I have made that clear to darksoft already which he was happy about. You need to get that straight also and move forward.
If darksoft does not want to implement suggestions made by others in his devices that is his right of course. Lets debate weather these ideas are good or not though so please chime in werejag, mitsurugi-w, lemony and you to darksoft.
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werejag
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razoola i never talked about hacked roms of cps2 . please if your going to address me please do not put motives or ideas of what i didnt say. you got this stuck idea i give a damn about the hacked roms. those are not part of what i was even talking about.
telling me i can only talk and agree with you as you did before is what i have a issue with
telling me i can only talk and agree with you as you did before is what i have a issue with
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Such requests in the past would have only been make related to keeping conversations from going off topic, Please point out to me where you feel I have done this with you.
I have asked for your opinion related to hardware of a potential NeoGeo Flash cart. Where is the problem?
Raz
werejag
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right here.
this implies i need to get the hacked cps2 roms issue straight also.
now to the idea it should be darksoft's responsibility to secure games he is not making. he is making a cart not games. if those devs want some protection add that damn protection their damn selfs. any security darksoft adds will be broken by simply creating another game to dump and downloading and decypting the game.
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I can only go off that you write. I read your previous post a few back;
'then why the fixation on darksoft doing it instead of each dev game maker? seems not a task for darksoft to do.'
Your next post read;
'since im not allowed to discuss this ill depart this thread. good luck with the project razoola im sure your flashcart will be amazing.
Your next post read
'its the kind of post given after an active discussion was shut down by showing you dont want one. thanks for the before discussion ill leave it to the rest. '
From this I can only assume your talking about the previous situation has happened between myself and darksoft. That is that I'm talking about because there is only one isn't there. Move past that then we can chat about the plus and minus of features to have on a flash cart.
werejag
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so you found no where where i mentioned the hacked cps2 roms you call phoenix edition since you did those.
you went illogical and then started reading wtf into this. ok lets move past what you misunderstood
now can we address what i have been talking about instead of wtf
you went illogical and then started reading wtf into this. ok lets move past what you misunderstood
now can we address what i have been talking about instead of wtf
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Sure ok, I'm fine with your view on that.
Lets hear whats on your mind in relation to a flash cart and such.
werejag
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all my intent wading in to this was the all ready formed protections. the video menu idea is nice. but can be added later as it will just be a game running in effect that chooses memory addresses. i really had little i wanted to add but wading in for this protection scheme.
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What opinions do you have on adding in a protection system? I get your previous point its not darksofts job to do that but he has already said he spoke to NDG about it so he is open to it. I'm saying its still a good idea because NGD are not the only potential devs releasing games going forward.
The thing with a NeoGeo flash cart is its nothing like CPS2. CPS2 only had to provide the game data as a EPROM would and also alter jumpers. Actually I think jumper manipulation would also be unneeded in the case of CPS2 but I can't remember 100% off the top of my head, the same can be achieved by altering the data.
NeoGeo is very different because you also need to do the other neogeo hardware on the device, I'm sure you understand that. This is of course unless darksoft has planned a 3rd pcb that sits inside the other 2 in a cart. In effect sacking 1 NeoGeo cart to convert it into a flash cart. The downside of that of course is it would not support all games natively. I don't personally feel he will go that route but I bring it up because that would be the only way to compare a neogeo flash cart that works on the same principle as his CPS2 flash device.
This means he is tasked with the extra work needed on the PCB to copy what's on NeoGeo carts (the various different hardware standards). This is the level an added protection can come in. Protections can be build into the device at this level for example and not simply at the programming of flash level (that can be easily defeated on the NeoGeo).
What I'm highlighting is that it would not necessarily incure any more cost to build the device with an underlying protection because your going to require a good package there already to do the NeoGeo related stuff. It would require extra time to implement it but even I would offer my time to do such a feature.
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Sure Ill break it down again so you can give a view on each.
- Dropping the LCD screen replaced with NeoGeo controlled operation.
- Having a direct hookup to pc via USB?
- Replacing P ROM/MROM/SROM with battery backed up RAM?
- Including an encryption based protection for any dev wishing to use it?
I just mentioned more about this in, http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showt...Next-Project&p=3892663&viewfull=1#post3892663
What do you think?
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That could be nice I agree, one downside would be those with cabs finding it hard to use. So probably another option alongside that for control would be needed.
werejag
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What opinions do you have on adding in a protection system? as i mentioned again but doesn't seem to be clear enough its pointless and defeats itself since access from one game has to prevent access to the other games or a trojaned game that its only job is to dump the decypted binary would be the main attack would happen or modified firmware. so a game dev should do it thier damn self. so each encyption would be unique
Would be cool to have 2 menus/select options. One with a list select like the multi carts, one that works like a multi slot board 2/4/6 slot, just preset the games and maybe cycle through the games using select? Would be a cleaner solution, disguising the multi cart inside the cab.
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You cannot dump the level of protection I suggested so I cannot see what your saying given I already agreed that you can't use an encryption at the flash level which I assume is what you are talking about. Be aware you u can't simply flash another game to a flash cart to dump previous, only the bios would be a weak point for that but again my suggestion would be protected against that.
I made it clear that protection is at the operation level and not the data level. Much like the change SNK made to games from Kof99
Raz
. There would of course need to be secrecy from the flash cart maker
totoroslayer
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At the risk of steering us off topic into the land of what this poll was originally asking about, would it perhaps make more sense to reverse engineer carts like the Big Banana and see if one can load the things they want onto that? That would eliminate a lot of hardware engineering and fab on Darksoft's part, thus reducing his risk. It's totally conceivable that during the research of this, we might find why the Big Banana simply cannot deliver the performance necessary for certain games (and thus a custom hardware solution will be necessary). But it seems that examining something that's already out there and working might be a better path?