Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition

RBjakeSpecial

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I've bought the PHB, MM, and DMG now and ran 3 games with all of the official 5E rules. I love it. I ran a conversion of G1 (Against the Giants) and the first two parts of the adventure with the Starter Set. This Sunday I'm going to run a conversion of D1 (continuing the G1-3 story line).

Anybody else into D&D? I played a ton of 4th edition, and so far I like 5th edition a lot better. The core books are really well written as well.

I'm thinking about picking up the two adventures that have been released so far (Horde of the Dragon Queen and Rise of Tiamat) Has anyone read those?
 

Gentlegamer

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I'm an old school AD&D fan.* I haven't kept up with 5th edition, but from what I know of 4e and modern RPG design, I don't imagine I'd have anything positive to say about it.


My username was inspired by Gary Gygax.
 

RBjakeSpecial

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4E was pretty terrible. I played it for years, but after getting into 5E, I'll never go back to 4 or 3.5. 5E feels like playing old school D&D, but all the rules explained well and easy to reference. If you're old school, you should definitely check it out.

I grew up with 2nd Edition. I still love those old books. I had some 1st edition stuff, mainly Oriental Adventures. That book was crazy.
 

T.A.P.

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I still play 3.5 pretty often. I hated 4. I'd give 5 a try if I could find a group.
 

FAT$TACKS

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Did not care for 4th edition. So far, I'm very unimpressed with 5th edition. While I like D&D, in my opinion there are far better options available these days. Though, I would still happily play Advanced over any other of the editions save BX. After reading through the books and playing some 5th edition, I feel like they took some of the worst stuff from every edition and made a new edition out of it. Also, kind of griped me that some of the stuff you though should have been in the books looks to have been left out just so it will appear in the next book, rather than give us something new. Sort of feels like they have taken notes from the video game industry.
 

Gentlegamer

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I haven't played for several years, but when I DMed, I had turned to BX as my edition of choice. It's really the best, most complete, and DM friendly version.
 

RBjakeSpecial

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Did not care for 4th edition. So far, I'm very unimpressed with 5th edition. While I like D&D, in my opinion there are far better options available these days. Though, I would still happily play Advanced over any other of the editions save BX. After reading through the books and playing some 5th edition, I feel like they took some of the worst stuff from every edition and made a new edition out of it. Also, kind of griped me that some of the stuff you though should have been in the books looks to have been left out just so it will appear in the next book, rather than give us something new. Sort of feels like they have taken notes from the video game industry.

You're still thinking of 4th edition. Honestly, they threw all the MMO like crap out. The new books have a CRAZY ton of content meant to last. WotC even gave the barebones version of the game away for free via PDF and their web site.

New PHB has all the common and uncommon races that have ever been in PHBs, and 12 classes. It's pretty feature complete.

Now I'll stop sounding like a WotC shill and just enjoy my D&D books.
 

NeoSneth

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i am not playing, but i can say that i've heard nothing but good things about it. It has done a much better job than previous versions.
 

Gentlegamer

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Did WotC make tactical combat optional? Or is everything defined by squares and attacks of opportunity still.
 

FAT$TACKS

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You're still thinking of 4th edition. Honestly, they threw all the MMO like crap out. The new books have a CRAZY ton of content meant to last. WotC even gave the barebones version of the game away for free via PDF and their web site.

New PHB has all the common and uncommon races that have ever been in PHBs, and 12 classes. It's pretty feature complete.

Now I'll stop sounding like a WotC shill and just enjoy my D&D books.

No.

When I get the time I'll be happy to explain that more, but I assure I'm not talking about 4th and there is quite a bit of content set up in 5th as partial that is waiting for the next release. The reference to video games stuff was due to how it is being released.
 

RBjakeSpecial

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Did WotC make tactical combat optional? Or is everything defined by squares and attacks of opportunity still.

All optional now. Entire game can be played without a battlemat (Thank god!). Attacks of Opprotunity is in there, but a simplified version. Flanking and other tactical stuff is presented in the DMG as optional rules. Basically the whole idea of 5th ed. is "Use whatever works, disregard whatever rules you don't like, make it your own." The DMG provides a ton of rules to hack the classes, races, backgrounds, optional skill rules, monster creation rules.. it's pretty impressive.

I've been converting 1E adventures to 5E and it's pretty easy to do. The game now plays like the older additions. There are no more lame Skill Challenges or adventures that are just 3-4 encounters strung together. The new bounded accuracy math is pretty awesome too. It puts a cap on all the numbers so you can still use weak monsters against a buff party. Magical Items have all been toned down to the original feel as well, it's assumed that the party doesn't have them for encounter balance.

The best new rule is the Advantage/Disadvantage system. Instead of all the +2's and -2's in 4E, they took most of that out (some of it happens in case of cover) and replaced it with rolling 2d20 and picking the higher roll (or lower in the case of disadvantage). They also added back in damage types like slashing, bludgeoning, piercing.
 

RBjakeSpecial

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No.

When I get the time I'll be happy to explain that more, but I assure I'm not talking about 4th and there is quite a bit of content set up in 5th as partial that is waiting for the next release. The reference to video games stuff was due to how it is being released.

Partial stuff? Really? Have you seen how complete the content is in the core three books? The DMG explains how to hack the system to make it your own. The combat system is finished. There are no psionics or mass combat rules, but those have never been included in the core books. Have you heard anything about what's coming? I've heard that this is it as far as rules are concerned and that all the next material will just be a major setting release and then adventures and possibly monster manuals surrounding it.
 

FAT$TACKS

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Partial stuff? Really? Have you seen how complete the content is in the core three books? The DMG explains how to hack the system to make it your own. The combat system is finished. There are no psionics or mass combat rules, but those have never been included in the core books. Have you heard anything about what's coming? I've heard that this is it as far as rules are concerned and that all the next material will just be a major setting release and then adventures and possibly monster manuals surrounding it.

Yes, and yes.

I've them at home, read through them and will be happy to expound upon what I'm talking about when I'm not busy.
 

T.A.P.

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Yes, and yes.

I've them at home, read through them and will be happy to expound upon what I'm talking about when I'm not busy.

I really want to read your review.
 

smokehouse

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Wow...D&D. I played heavily back in the early 90's on the AD&D 2nd edition set. Wish I wouldn't have lost those books over the years. Funny enough, I still have my dice sets though.

I can't even come close to having the time to play it now...I wish I could, it used to be pretty fun.
 

Taiso

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I have everything that they've released for 5E to this point, including the three prerelease modules from the last couple of years, and while I haven't had the time to play it, and don't know when I will, I'm impressed with the changes.

It feels like a return to the core values of D&D and isn't as complicated as 3.5 or as tactical as 4. I like the way monsters work in 5E especially.

So far, I have 0 complaints about 5E.
 

RBjakeSpecial

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I have everything that they've released for 5E to this point, including the three prerelease modules from the last couple of years, and while I haven't had the time to play it, and don't know when I will, I'm impressed with the changes.

It feels like a return to the core values of D&D and isn't as complicated as 3.5 or as tactical as 4. I like the way monsters work in 5E especially.

So far, I have 0 complaints about 5E.

Awesome. I haven't bought any of the adventures yet. I was thinking about getting Hoard of the Dragon Queen. Any of them that you recommend? The Baldur's Gate one looked pretty awesome.

I'm running a conversion of D1-2 Descent into the Depths of the Earth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Descent_into_the_Depths_of_the_Earth) this Sunday and using the 4E Underdark book quite a bit. I'm excited. The Monster Manual seems really good so far. From my experience only running three games, it seems that encounters are pretty deadly in 4E. I have to be really careful about monsters getting a critical hit and outright killing players. I'm running four level 9 characters this Sunday, so I'll see how it goes.
 

smokehouse

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I have everything that they've released for 5E to this point, including the three prerelease modules from the last couple of years, and while I haven't had the time to play it, and don't know when I will, I'm impressed with the changes.

It feels like a return to the core values of D&D and isn't as complicated as 3.5 or as tactical as 4. I like the way monsters work in 5E especially.

So far, I have 0 complaints about 5E.

This may be a strange/ignorant question...but did they ever make a "quick/light" version?

While I really like AD&D, the insane amounts of time to develop a character eventually turned me off to it. I appreciated the game and the system but under their design, there was no real fast track unless you basically re-designed the rules. The time required to play the game eventually go to be too much for my then budding lifestyle.

I wonder if people set up video conf sessions to play now. That would be interesting and something that just wasn't possible back when I played.
 

RBjakeSpecial

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This may be a strange/ignorant question...but did they ever make a "quick/light" version?

While I really like AD&D, the insane amounts of time to develop a character eventually turned me off to it. I appreciated the game and the system but under their design, there was no real fast track unless you basically re-designed the rules. The time required to play the game eventually go to be too much for my then budding lifestyle.

I wonder if people set up video conf sessions to play now. That would be interesting and something that just wasn't possible back when I played.

Yes. Basic Rules and Stuff is all released for free here: http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/basicrules It's also compatible (same rules just less stuff) as the core books.

Skype games are really popular. I used to play in a monthly Skype game and have done it over 10 times with D&D.
 

Taiso

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Awesome. I haven't bought any of the adventures yet. I was thinking about getting Hoard of the Dragon Queen. Any of them that you recommend? The Baldur's Gate one looked pretty awesome.

I'm running a conversion of D1-2 Descent into the Depths of the Earth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Descent_into_the_Depths_of_the_Earth) this Sunday and using the 4E Underdark book quite a bit. I'm excited. The Monster Manual seems really good so far. From my experience only running three games, it seems that encounters are pretty deadly in 4E. I have to be really careful about monsters getting a critical hit and outright killing players. I'm running four level 9 characters this Sunday, so I'll see how it goes.

To be honest, all three of them are pretty good. The focus on D&D with 5E is back on storytelling and player interaction and less on the wargaming aspect, and as I read through the modules I could tell that focus was in every paragraph. They're well put together adventures, and any one of them would suit your needs. It really depends on where your players are in the realms and what makes sense for them in terms of geographic location.

Of course, if you're just running the adventures and not doing a campaign, it doesn't matter.

Remember that Hoard of the Dragon Queen and The Return of Tiamat are two parts of a consecutive storyline. I suppose you don't NEED to run Hoard of the Dragon Queen, but I think it would be more fun to run it sequentially.
 

RBjakeSpecial

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To be honest, all three of them are pretty good. The focus on D&D with 5E is back on storytelling and player interaction and less on the wargaming aspect, and as I read through the modules I could tell that focus was in every paragraph. They're well put together adventures, and any one of them would suit your needs. It really depends on where your players are in the realms and what makes sense for them in terms of geographic location.

Of course, if you're just running the adventures and not doing a campaign, it doesn't matter.

Remember that Hoard of the Dragon Queen and The Return of Tiamat are two parts of a consecutive storyline. I suppose you don't NEED to run Hoard of the Dragon Queen, but I think it would be more fun to run it sequentially.

Awesome. Yeah, I'd pick up both adventures if I ran them and just do a 1-15 long play type of deal.

Good to hear about the other adventures. I may pick some of them up. I'm used to hacking apart settings and adventures to fit my needs, so no need to worry about the Realms stuff. I've never owned a Realms campaign guide or anything, just read some of the novels. I suppose I should get into it some day.

So glad to hear the emphasis is back on story. I loved 4E at first, but by mid-paragon tier the game mechanics really slowed the whole thing down and it wasn't fun to play any more.
 

Gentlegamer

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I see WotC got back in the adventure module business after Goodman Games showed them they can still sell very well.
 

Taiso

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Awesome. Yeah, I'd pick up both adventures if I ran them and just do a 1-15 long play type of deal.

Good to hear about the other adventures. I may pick some of them up. I'm used to hacking apart settings and adventures to fit my needs, so no need to worry about the Realms stuff. I've never owned a Realms campaign guide or anything, just read some of the novels. I suppose I should get into it some day.

So glad to hear the emphasis is back on story. I loved 4E at first, but by mid-paragon tier the game mechanics really slowed the whole thing down and it wasn't fun to play any more.

At Gen Con 2 years ago, the devs were saying that they felt they hadn't tested the game very well past LV 10. They felt that up to LV 10 the game had balance, but after that it kind of went to hell because of all the wargame mechanics.

The emphasis is really on storytelling and player/dm interaction with 5E. I'm glad to see it because when I think of D&D, for many years now, it's been 'the game that lost its mojo to Paizo' and while Pathfinder may be good, it just feels wrong to me that the original game has to compete against an older spinoff of itself.
 

FAT$TACKS

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Out of the 3 book editions, none with the exception of Skills and Powers have been bad when starting out with just the three core books. Even 4th edition brought a lot of interesting changes, and was playable in the beginning levels with the original release materials. I really feel that a lot of the praise for 5th edition is coming from the fact that it is not 4th edition, and that it hasn't been out long enough for its flaws to be an issue, and there aren't any really game breaking releases yet.

Also, its worth mentioning that I'm not part of the target audience for this release. The main focus area for these rules are two groups, young new players and players who began with 4th edition. Starting back when WOTC took over, the writing level of D&D products have continually been released to a lower grade/age level. There has been a lot of effort put into the writing of this new release to explain how to use the rules and how to role play. I'm not sighting that as a bad thing. Overall, I think it is good if it helps get new people into the hobby and keeps the game alive.

So before I go on, let me do a tiny bit of fill in here. 3rd edition came out in 2000, so people who started out in 3rd edition (if they started out as kids or teens) should be getting to that point in their life where they are moving on to other things and its hard to get together a gaming group to play on a regular basis. Those of us who started in the 80's are even farther removed from being the target audience. While there are still a large number of older gamers who will buy and play 5th edition, the majority of people who are going to be playing it are going to be younger, or new gamers. It's been that way for every system, but until about midway through 3.5 that was never really capitalized upon.

I'll skip right over everything up to 5th edition now. When play testing began, one could kind of watch the various revisions and see the direction the game was shaping into. While there was a lot of input from the older gaming crowd, the focus was still held to the newer gamer. Rightly so, as they are trying to sell a new product. With all due respect, 5th edition is not bad. Also, it's not for me. Everything that has been done in this rules set has already been done in a different edition, or a different company's product and in most cases done better. I won't bother to nitpick apart the actual rules, but will just say that there is nothing new in this edition. Love or hate 4th edition, it brought new game play and ideas to the table, not all good, not all bad, but 5th does not. They played it about as safe as they could with this one, and to me it just seems quite bland and I've no reason to buy into any future releases of it. Again, I'm not the target of the system, and that is not a fault of the system.

Previously when I had mentioned "some of the stuff you though should have been in the books looks to have been left out just so it will appear in the next book" it was not due to they had faulted and forgot to cover something in the rules, or forgot to add in a class or race. The core books are actually cram a lot of content, more so than I think really is need in some of those areas as I've no interest in many of the expanded races and classes that have become core. Again, I'm not the target audience.

So without breaking open the books I'll try to explain what I was talking about. I started playing D&D back when I was like 9 or 10, and it was a huge influence on my young self, (really got me into reading, and to this day miniature painting that spawned from that is my main hobby.) I've played or read through massive amounts of table top gaming material over the last 30 years. So what I was giving there was my opinion based on that. When I read through the books after a couple of times I started asking myself why things were written the way they were, such as options that were or weren't given for single example.

Now the actual rules are complete, so the company can say that there are not going to be any more releases to the rules. What we are going to get is a glut of optional content, not just adventures, settings, and such, but what we are going to see is an expansion of the classes, new paths that seem to fill in those blanks between the ones that are already listed, expanded races, optional rules additions, and a continuation of the practice that WOTC has had since the late 90. Not to come off as just speculating, but with a bit of inside track I can say that there is not enough money in non core content, such as modules. There is so much free and super low cost content in the area of setting and adventures that a person could play them for years. Not to mention free rules sets.

About free rule sets. WOTC pretty much had to release a free core set. Some players are new and will just buy into 5th edition, some players are brand loyal and will buy into it, others who were on the fence may read the free rules and decide to buy into it. They really don't loose anything with having a free basic set of rules. It is a great service to their fans players and potential player base and I was quite happy they went that route.

All, in all 5th edition (in my opinion) is a huge step in the right direction. Its just not for me. I don't hate it or dislike it, so much as I just don't need it and am disinterested in it past being curious to give it a try. It kind of gripes me knowing that nothing has changed though with how the property is being handled. When I have some more time I'll go into the books in some detail and the rules as well.

As for my video game reference, I was trying to and seem to have failed to compare their business model for the property future releases to the video game industry and their love affair with DLC. I won't mind trying to explain that more later as well if anyone wants.
 

RBjakeSpecial

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FAT$TACKS -

Sorry I seemed so reactionary to your first post, I was in the Playtest and played with a weekly group and did all of the surveys. I am really excited about 5th edition, and so far, on the table, it's becoming one of my favorite RPGs to run. I just felt like a wet blanket was being thrown over my enthusiasm for the new edition.

A little background on my table top playing. I was into the red box D&D when I was a kid, played Rifts in junior high school, played Call of Cthulhu in high school and then didn't really get back into D&D until 4E came out. I'm more of a DM than a player, have ran campaigns in all of the previously mentioned games, and am obsessed with Burning Wheel. (For people who don't know what it is, it's the greatest fantasy RPG: http://www.burningwheel.com/ ) My favorite old edition of D&D is 2nd Ed, my most played being 4E.

This is the part I take issue with: "Everything that has been done in this rules set has already been done in a different edition, or a different company's product and in most cases done better." So far my experiences with 5E have been quite the opposite. Everything is smooth and easy to do on the table. The rules are robust enough to handle all of the combat, but not so technical that you have to go diving into a book every other turn. The rules are my favorite part of 5E so far.

Here are the two new features of 5th edition I love (in this order):

1. Advantage / Disadvantage system to simplify floating bonuses and make it easier to DM. As a DM I don't have to keep track of +2's and -2's and just use the new advantage/disadvantage system.

2. Taking a nod from indie game development, they added a "Ideals, Flaws, and Bonds" system that fills out your character's personality. The DM can award a player an inspiration point (one at a time, allows a reroll) for playing to these personality traits. This adds a ton of focus on roleplaying.

I'm not sure that I feel that you can compare Table Top RPG releases and video games so much. These three core books have you pretty much set, and the DMG outlines how to make unlimited amounts of materials on your own. It would be like if Dragon Age Inquisition came with a game editor that let you create your own races, classes, adventures, etc. The way they are produced and released.. doesn't really feel like like how video games are. The current state of video games seem to be: 1. Get preorders for a broken game that needs a ton of patches, 2. SELL DLC 3. Never fix game.. :(

The Adventure Path thing seems interesting, but I'm not crazy about buying the manuals. These two new announcements: http://www.enworld.org/forum/conten...E-APOCALYPSE-for-D-D-5E-in-2015!#.VK84FHvpWIw That's 90 bucks!!? That's a crazy amount of money. I want to buy adventures and things, but the "Handbooks" seem kind of excessive. I probably won't be buying these handbooks unless some stuff for the Shadowfell or Planescape stuff comes out.

I'd love to hear some more about your insight on where the future of WotC will be. Do you think 5E is going to be a success? I think it's selling really well and all the "cool" blogs are touting it as the "RETURN OF D&D", which is just amazing for the hobby, but do you think it's going to last? This edition has really grabbed me. I feel like, "Damn, I don't need any more rules after this."
 
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