Hiroshima

Takumaji

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Now I'm become death, the destroyer of worlds.

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Some scientists like Teller may have believed in the 'the bombs will end the war' narrative but once the technology was put into military hands the majority knew that the genie was out of the bottle and they would use them no matter what. The two bombs were showcases of military power and a demonstration for Russia what would happen to them if they'd push any further, and of course for mere testing purposes.

According to the protocols of the Japanese war cabinet, the bombings did not play a major role in decision making, the big blow was the broad Russian attack in Manshuria, that was when they realized they were fucked, including Hirohito.
 

StevenK

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It's astonishing that countries are able to somehow put these things behind them and have relatively normal relations, really.

And then other nations hate each other for seemingly trivial events, perhaps even hundreds of years ago.
 

basic

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legit question, how would you all feel if the bombs were dropped on nazi germany or stalin russia, under similar circumstances (rejection of a complete unconditional surrender for whatever reason)?

edit: aside from my joking around, i don't actually hate the japanese and i think the hatred people from other asian countries have needs to be let go. i firmly believe that the sins of the fathers should not be put upon their progeny. however, i do wonder how tinted some people's glasses are in their view of japan and their history because of an infatuation of an idealized impression of their culture and "they make anime and video games that i love".

edit #2: but the hatred for the CCP is real.
 
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wataru330

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@skate323k137 I’d watch your Grandpa’s documentary.

The museum in Nagasaki would move any human w/ the slightest bit of emotional intelligence. The silhouettes from shadows of people caught in the flash burn, in the park where the A-bomb dome is, are heartbreaking.
 

DevilRedeemed

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firmly believe that the sins of the fathers should not be put upon their progeny..

I don't agree unless proper amendments are made and proper compensation is payed. It seldom is, yet the progeny reap the spoils.

That the bomb was dropped on Japan, Germany, Russia or Uganda is beside the point
 

Takumaji

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legit question, how would you all feel if the bombs were dropped on nazi germany or stalin russia, under similar circumstances (rejection of a complete unconditional surrender for whatever reason)?

edit: aside from my joking around, i don't actually hate the japanese and i think the hatred people from other asian countries have needs to be let go. i firmly believe that the sins of the fathers should not be put upon their progeny. however, i do wonder how tinted some people's glasses are in their view of japan and their history because of an infatuation of an idealized impression of their culture and "they make anime and video games that i love".

edit #2: but the hatred for the CCP is real.
Well, we had our Hiroshima and Nagasaki, they were called Dresden and Hamburg (sans fallout, of course).

The Japanese rejected unconditional surrender mainly because they feared that the Americans might end the Emperor system and kick Hirohito out. As soon as they heard that even McArthur was cool with keeping Hirohito in office, the (more or less) unconditional surrender was made a day later.
 

terry.330

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The old guy that lived across the street from me around 15 years ago was on the plane that dropped one of the bombs, he was a navigator. I helped him out from time to time because he was so old and didn't have any family left. I told him my grandpa was in the naval air corps. stationed in the pacific and asked him if he served and he told me about that mission. It was pretty incredible to hear it first hand and he felt pretty terrible about it. He said that he felt worse and worse about it over the years the more he learned about it and the more objectively he was able to look at it.
 

basic

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I don't agree unless proper amendments are made and proper compensation is payed. It seldom is, yet the progeny reap the spoils.

That the bomb was dropped on Japan, Germany, Russia or Uganda is beside the point
reparations and apologies are things that should be done more at the country/government level, which i have no issues with. i'm talking about like how my dad just used to have an irrational hatred of every day japanese people...like when he saw a japanese MLB player playing on TV.

the german and russian part of the question was just to see if people would be like "fuck them...they deserved it".
 

Neodogg

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I don’t know why but I have a genuine distaste for the French…probably based on the stories of my Gpa who fought over in Europe. I don’t even think I’ve met one but…there’s an instant irritation.
 

LoneSage

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According to the protocols of the Japanese war cabinet, the bombings did not play a major role in decision making
August 6 - bomb dropped
August 9 - another bomb dropped oh jesus fuck how many of these bombs do they have
August 10 - Japan says they wanna give up

Sure they didn't play a major role, sure.
 

Syn

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In like 5th grade I wrote a paper on the Hiroshima bombing using the Encyclopedia Britanica. It was a very sterile, written by victors paper as I remember. Knowing what I do know my paper would be much different.

It's funny what our threads make you think about, reconsider and what not.
 

Burning Fight!!

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Saying that a foreign power sweeping all your pacific ocean strongholds and bombing you twice with a huge-firebomb-raid-in-a-warhead that might be stockpiled in unknown amounts did NOT play a major role in the surrender of Japan is kind of the PSX of WWII, I'm sorry.

BTW Japan also had a nuclear weapon research program. This terrible weapon would've been used by everyone in the war given the chance.
 

Takumaji

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August 6 - bomb dropped
August 9 - another bomb dropped oh jesus fuck how many of these bombs do they have
August 10 - Japan says they wanna give up

Sure they didn't play a major role, sure.
Check out the war ministry protocols of that time and see how they reacted to the bombings, it's all well documented. They were not fully aware of the consequences of radioactive fallout at first so they treated Hiroshima and Nagasaki as just two more cities lost to US bombings like Tokyo. Their main concern surrounding an unconditional surrender was Hirohito and a possible alliance with Russia, a hope which got shattered when Russia declared war to Japan and attacked them in Manshuria on August 8, 1945. Now they had a war on two fronts and knew that they wouldn't be able to stand a chance because the ongoing war with America had already almost exhausted their human and technical ressources.

The nukes played a role but not a major one here, i.e. they helped to speed up the Japanese decision process but they were not the final all-deciding booms that made the Japanese regime sit down and give up. Just like the rest of the world (except for the American scientists who built the bomb, some spies and Stalin), the Japanese had no idea about atomic bombs and what they could do so they did not get the full picture of what could happen with their cities if they would have soldiered on. They did however know only too well that a decisive Russian attack against their satellite states and finally against the mainland would have resulted in a Red Japan because the Sovjet military would have had no qualms sending a million men to their death in an invasion, unlike the Americans who wanted to quickly end the war with the smallest possible bodycount on their side.

In a greater historical context, the atomic bombings of course played a major role, that goes without saying. I'm talking about the direct reaction and their consequences of the Japanese war cabinet here.
 

Lach

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Every written record in war time should garner your most scrutinous of thoughts.
 

basic

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In like 5th grade I wrote a paper on the Hiroshima bombing using the Encyclopedia Britanica. It was a very sterile, written by victors paper as I remember. Knowing what I do know my paper would be much different.

It's funny what our threads make you think about, reconsider and what not.
if i was your teacher and found out you took any inspiration from the hyphen for your paper, i'd fail you on the spot.
 

Takumaji

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Every written record in war time should garner your most scrutinous of thoughts.
Exactly, that's why historical research about the issue is still going on in universities around the world. The latest insights into the inner workings of the Japanese high command are slowly putting the old "the nukes ended the war" dictum closer to the propaganda closet where it belongs.
 

Vladimir Putin

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August 6 - bomb dropped
August 9 - another bomb dropped oh jesus fuck how many of these bombs do they have
August 10 - Japan says they wanna give up

Sure they didn't play a major role, sure.
Lol you fucking simpleton.
 

@M

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There were some people that had the misfortune of being present at both the Hiroshima and Nagasaki detonations and still somehow survived. That's pretty amazing.
 

Takumaji

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There were some people that had the misfortune of being present at both the Hiroshima and Nagasaki detonations and still somehow survived. That's pretty amazing.
AFAIK there's only one victim of the bombings who was officially rated as double victim. He was a businessman who lived in Nagasaki who went to Hiroshima on August 6th to visit a customer when the bomb exploded. He got injured but was able to get back home after two days, and then back in Nagasaki, on the morning of August 9th... talk about bad luck.
 
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