Neo-Geo AES graphics corrupted / display issue

[Tarma]

I've just got hold of an AES and the graphics are all corrupted.

I've cleaned the carts, I've cleaned the cart slot, checked my cables and when the AES is powered on without a cart inserted I get a blue screen.

Sound is fine.

This is what I get:

Any suggestions at what I'm looking at here, please?

 

[BIG BEAR]

Looks like your LSPC/LSPC2 chip needs to be reflowed.
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[Tarma]

Looks like your LSPC/LSPC2 chip needs to be reflowed.
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Thanks for the feedback

Is that an easy enough job to tackle? Is there anyway to test before attempting repair?

 

[BIG BEAR]

Thanks for the feedback

Is that an easy enough job to tackle? Is there anyway to test before attempting repair?

Well, it's an SMT chip and you would have to be comfortable working with them .A good way to test if it is the cause of the problem is to press down on it while the system is on and see if some changes occur like the images are starting to clear up abit..
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[Neo Alec]

Speaking from a totally untrained perspective. That takes drag soldering with flux. Actually a lot easier than it looks. Just need to go easy on the solder and make sure you don't leave anything bridged.

 

[BIG BEAR]

Speaking from a totally untrained perspective. That takes drag soldering with flux. Actually a lot easier than it looks. Just need to go easy on the solder and make sure you don't leave anything bridged.

I've seen cases where pads have been pulled up(applying too much heat), legs bent out of align and points bridged (including concealed on the backend) this is why I mention you have to feel comfortable doing it.
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[Neo Alec]

I've seen cases where pads have been pulled up(applying too much heat), legs bent out of align and points bridged (including concealed on the backend) this is why I mention you have to feel comfortable doing it.
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Yeah, 100%. I've either gotten lucky not breaking anything when I've done it, or am at least familiar enough with the temperature settings on my iron.

 

[Tarma]

I've not attempted something like this previously, but I'll have a close look at the board before deciding on whether to tackle it or not. Need to do that "press test" as well.

I've seen some people reflow solder with a heat gun... does that work??

You just remove the old solder and put fresh down is the basic gist of doing it properly, is that right?

Ugh... why couldn't I pick a unit that worked!!

 

[BIG BEAR]

Yeah, 100%. I've either gotten lucky not breaking anything when I've done it, or am at least familiar enough with the temperature settings on my iron.

I have picked up a couple of units in the past from a few members and I still have one or two that are still in the state they arrived. I won't snap any photos (don't want to out anybody or people to be taken aback) but I know all too well ,me included how something can start off as a minor task and go left real fast and then the attempted fix by the same individual can make things even worse.
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[BIG BEAR]

I've seen some people reflow solder with a heat gun... does that work??

I personally would only use heat to remove the chip completely (I've gotten away with replacing SMT's that way being lazy only on smaller chips,the success rate on larger chips is like 35/65 due to the amount of heat you have to apply). It's a custom chip and you don't want to risk damaging that chip because it's not easy to replace and or costly to replace.
Sometime reflowing only requires a certain section of the chip to be reflowed where as a heat gun can have the possibility to misalign the legs of the whole chip due to the amount of heat you have to apply.
Just get a flat head tip,some flux and lil 60/40 and carefully apply the tip to the pads and not the legs.
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[Tarma]

I personally would only use heat to remove the chip completely. It's a custom chip and you don't want to risk damaging that chip because it's not easy to replace and or costly to replace.
Sometime reflowing only requires a certain section of the chip to be reflowed where as a heat gun can have the possibility to misalign the legs.
Just get a flat head tip,some flux and lil 60/40 and carefully apply the tip to the pads and not the legs.
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So you wouldn't advocate removing the old solder pads, just add some fresh solder?

I really wouldn't touch it myself if it required removing the chips... an attempt I made on a MVS board a while back did not end well! : /

However, if it's a case of just adding some fresh solder to strengthen the connection... yeah, I could have a go at that. I'll find something to practice on first though!

 

[BIG BEAR]

However, if it's a case of just adding some fresh solder to strengthen the connection... yeah, I could have a go at that. I'll find something to practice on first though!

That's it! make sure you have some braid just in case you applied too much solder as well to clean off the excess.
You also want to get some 91% Isopropyl alcohol,paper towel and or q-tip to clean up the grime that flux will leave.
That grime can cause points to bridge sometime.
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[Tarma]

That's it! make sure you have some braid just in case you applied too much solder as well to clean off the excess.
You also want to get some 91% Isopropyl alcohol,paper towel and or q-tip to clean up the grime that flux will leave.
That grime can cause points to bridge sometime.
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Awesome, I'll start looking into sorting this out. I need to buy a new soldering iron first as I didn't bring mine with me when I moved.

Given the size of the chips I doubt they'll need much solder anyway. Is contact cleaner suitable to clean the flux off if required?

 

[Tarma]

Well, got the console open - prodding the LSPC2 chip does nothing to the graphics output as it is.

Had a good luck around the board - nothing obvious on the top side...

Underneath - is this corrosion on these tracks? This is under the SP1 chip:

Here's my LSPC2 chip close up:

I cleaned around it with contact cleaner - it was fairly dirty, but it's done nothing to solve the graphic issue.

 

[madmanjock]

I'm by no means the expert here, but is there any chance it's the 'slots' are lose? Does pressing down the cartridge (very slightly) improve the picture at all?

I had graphical corruption (although it didn't look the same as these pics) which was fixed by replacing the cart slot.

 

[Tarma]

I'm by no means the expert here, but is there any change it's the 'slots' are lose? Does pressing down the cartridge (very slightly) improve the picture at all?

I had graphical corruption (although it didn't look the same as these pics) which was fixed by replacing the cart slot.

Tried that. In fact I think it was one of the first things I did

 

[madmanjock]

Ah shit worth a shot. Look at this video about 18 mins in - I think those traces are probably the offenders then.

*Edit* - but I'm a n00b at this stuff.

 

[maki]

I've seen some people reflow solder with a heat gun... does that work??

these kind of "techniques" are best left to youtube influencer that do this for internet clout and people that are okay with wrecking a PCB

IMO if you want to practise, get a Mega Drive of something else less valuable
these kind of "repairs" often lead to FUBAR situations, or at the very least much more effort/expense

FWIW, you only need flux, braid and a good soldering iron to reflow, if you're unaware I suggest more practise, AES don't grow on trees

All in all I would not recommend a beginner to work on a AES board, the trace come off just by looking too hard at them, lots of them get broken by owners when they try to replace the ROM with a UNIBIOS, "thats easy they said", next thing is they have to do is jump 20+ traces..

its all easy if you have experience, its a craft that needs practising

 

[BIG BEAR]

Good that it's not the LSPC2... Inspect the B1 chip the same way you did the LSPC2.It should be on the left side above the reset button
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[Tarma]

Good that it's not the LSPC2... Inspect the B1 chip the same way you did the LSPC2.It should be on the left side above the reset button
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Will do. In the meantime I'm going to buy some conductive paint to repair those traces. The bluey/green stuff looks like the same crap you get out leaking batteries. I've scrapped some of it off, and it's nice and coppery underneath.

I repaired a LD remote a few years back with corroded traces using conductive paint and it worked perfectly.

 

[Neo Alec]

Well, got the console open - prodding the LSPC2 chip does nothing to the graphics output as it is.

Had a good luck around the board - nothing obvious on the top side...

Underneath - is this corrosion on these tracks? This is under the SP1 chip:

I would check those traces with a multimeter if you haven't already.

Ah shit worth a shot. Look at this video about 18 mins in - I think those traces are probably the offenders then.

*Edit* - but I'm a n00b at this stuff.

They're fixing an AES and I haven't watched it before? (Saved to Watch Later.)

 

[Tarma]

I would check those traces with a multimeter if you haven't already.

Corrosion is clearly there, so this will need addressing, even if it isn't the route cause of my issue, as it's only going to get worse if left as is.

 

[Tarma]

Alas, I'm not convinced I have the necessary skills or know-how to get this fixed.

Can someone recommend me a man who can?

 

[Burning Fight!!]

IMO if you want to practise, get a Mega Drive of something else less valuable

rest assured this burn did not go unappreciated

 

[maki]

rest assured this burn did not go unappreciated

hehe.. tbh honest, I meant that, but not in a derogatory way, Genesis/Mega Drive are IMO "similar enough" when it comes to the size and packaging of ICs, they can be used to practise

@Tarma it depends on your location, I'm in Munich, Germany, I also know a guy in Sydney Australia where I used to live before, but that is probably completely useless to you if you're in the Americas
generally speaking, a reliable console fix shop should be able to fix it for you, some have more experience with retro some less

this kind of rot btw. does not stop IME, getting another PCB sucks because of buying another one but at leat you know what to look for in terms of problems (spots, specks, etc. pp.)
I've seen Neo Geo PCBs (mostly MVS) where some tracks have completely vanished thanks to the leaking acid from the battery, but some AES rott all by them selves and won't stop, its a continuous job to fix roten traces over the years

if you want to give it another go, thats fine as well, measuring continuity etc., swapping the fast VRAM ICs to see if that changes anythingm, did you get the diag bios?