NEO GEO AES+

[Tarma]

W H A T. T H E. A C T U A L. F U C K.

Metal Slug 4? Of all the games on the system that you could perhaps consider to be "under-rated" - MS4 shouldn't even come into mind.

Fuck me. If this is the first Slug they reissue in the 2nd wave of games, that's it, I'm going to dump all my AES+ stuff on eBay. $40 BIN Shipped motherfuckas.

MS2, X, 3, LoSJ, Fight Fever, Ragnagard, Mahjong Kyoretsuden, Puzzled, Neo Geo CD Special - these should all be released before MS4 is even a fart in somebodies brain.

Someone, early on, said they thought this was all a joke. With that social post. I'm inclined to start agreeing.

Metal Slug 4?

Jfc.

 

[Genesis Knight]

It would be completely baffling if the next wave has any Slug other than X. That's the easiest decision ever.

 

[BlackaneseNiNjA]

Jotego discussing the AES+ at 54:34 point below.

Lots of good info in this vid.

Per the auto-subtitles:

• The asic approach was chosen over fpga due to cost
• Jotego and his team were contacted due to their work on the neo geo mister core and because there are restrictions around the licensing of their work when it comes to commercial use. There was a marked interest to work directly with Jotego's team as they were the original devs.
• Since everything was known and the design could be replicated, the decision was made to condense the design to 2 asic chips to reduce costs. Despite the difference in the number of chips, Jotego says to rest assured that what's inside is what it should be. Jotego likens the difference to the changes between the Mega Drive 1 and Mega Drive 2 and that in the end it is the same.
• For crt the output is RGB. HDMI had to be adjusted for compatibility reasons. He said he couldn't remember the exact details, but basically they had to slightly adjust the frequency to maintain display compatibility for HDMI. If you're a purist connect via RGB, otherwise you use HDMI. Jotego further notes that the adjustment primarily applied to a golf game (likely Big Tournament Golf)
• Backward compatibility between the modern and older hardware was pointed out and Jotego expressed that it's a very very good product and that they've been careful to respect SNK's wishes not to violate any open-source licenses by contacting everyone whose work was used, etc
• The cartridges are where they earn the least amount of money as the carts are very expensive to produce
• They started with 10 cartridges but they really would like there to be more
• Another reason they went with asic is because asic can be made with 5v, while with fpga the input followed is usually 2v and 5v or 1.8v. So the fact that 5v is needed to work with the cartridge was problematic
• Another interesting note is that it is made in Germany. There's a factory in Germany that will be making the chips. They are not made in China or Taiwan.
• Another part of the project that Jotego was involved with was reviewing the hardware and one of the parts he insisted they had to do was the DAC, that is, the digital-to-analogue conversion. He was particular about this to get the same colors, brightness, etc right.
• Jotego was also surprised that the manufacturer was able to get the costs down especially since the design uses 2 chips rather than 1. The budget allows for 2 production runs in case there are issues so the final product can turn out the best that it can be.

Topics per the auto summary:

• Introduction to Jotego (0:00 - 3:18): José Tejada introduces the team and their mission to recreate 80s and 90s arcade hardware using modern FPGA technology for a faithful, authentic experience.
• History of Arcade Culture in Japan vs. Spain (9:17 - 18:43): The team explains the historical context of arcade bootlegs. Due to the high cost and difficulty of importing original Japanese arcade boards, many unauthorized copies (bootlegs) became common in Spain, which had a high concentration of arcade cabinets in bars at the time.
• Reverse Engineering and Documentation (19:32 - 32:08): Francisco Rodríguez details their process for recovering lost documentation. This involves removing chip casings (using chemicals or lasers), taking microscopic photos of the silicon die, and manually tracing the logic circuits to create accurate schematics.
• Graphics, Video Systems, and Animation (32:43 - 50:00): Rafael explains how arcade graphics evolved. He discusses concepts like tile maps, sprites, scrolling (parallax), and complex hardware chips like the PESAC used by Konami to achieve pseudo-3D effects and rotations.
• Student Collaboration (50:25 - 53:40): A brief look at their collaboration with a local vocational school in Valencia, where students contribute by improving the graphics of classic games within the limitations of the original hardware.
• NeoGeo AES+ Project (53:58 - 1:07:35): In a bonus Q&A session, the team discusses their contribution to the commercial NeoGeo AES+ project. They clarify that this project uses custom ASIC (Application-Specific Integrated Circuit) chips rather than FPGA for the final hardware, aiming for an authentic, modern-compatible recreation of the classic system.

 

[Genesis Knight]

Cartridges, I know that's the part where they earn the least money. Interestingly, they are very expensive, I mean, they are really, really expensive to produce. So, uh, I mean, you have to carry that type of memory chip and such. The original size must be respected, etc.

Then I remember it was mentioned that although for the user it's a bit of the most important part attractive and more beautiful because of the whole aspect of the layout and such, for they are a little bit the part where there is less profit and they have started with 10 cartridges and I am sure yes, they do want more.

The old cartridges are compatible too. That's one of the reasons why it was done with ASI and not with FPGA is because the ASI can be done with 5, while the FPGA normally the input followed is usually 2V and 5V or 1.8V. So, the fact that it needed 5V to work with the cartridge was problematic.

Another curious thing is that it's manufactured in Germany. A factory in Germany is the one that will make the chips, right? They're not made in China or Taiwan. But it must be some new method they've come up with, right? Because until now they were much more expensive to manufacture, and the price they've ended up with is like this much cheaper than previously known

I suppose it's a matter of print run, but they're expensive for them too, otherwise the problem is they're so big, you can't make chips for that because you won't have that much production run, so you end up having to use ugly memories.

So, they've probably focused more on quantity to improve the price, right? Rather than something revolutionary new lowering the price significantly. I do believe so, I don't think it's anything revolutionary, I don't think it's a matter of economics. Yes, yes, yes.

Translated from the YT transcript.

 

[Catoblepa]

A cheap Mayflash stick from Amazon is better than an original AES stick that isn't modded.

I personally disagree on that: sure, the buttons on the original AES stick feel a bit weird (it's like pushing hollow plastic caps) so modding is a big improvement, but I wouldn't trade the lever even for some expensive Sanwa or Seimitsu parts. In my opinion, the relatively short travel of the original AES stick feels absolutely great, very responsive, and it works with many different genres.

 

[Neo Alec]

View attachment 95210

@Tarma

I like MS4, but that's pretty tone deaf.

 

[Moob Butter]

Someone, early on, said they thought this was all a joke. With that social post. I'm inclined to start agreeing.

Metal Slug 4?

Jfc.

Hopefully it’s just some intern on the social media team who has no clue about Neo Geo apart from what ChatGPT tells them trying to get goobs excited about Wave 2.

That said, phwoar… a white Metal Slug 4 - that could be the most hated game on the system EVER.

 

[uiengineer]

The TurboExpress was godly. I still have mine and about 15 game games but it no longer works. Back in the day it was unreal - playing games like Super Star Soldier and Blazing Lazers on a handheld, games that were decently on par (or better) than many arcade games. I loved it and still do.

My parents got it for me when I was laid up in the hospital for my birthday. I've sold lots of nice things over the years, but I will always keep that TurboExpress.

recap it. I did that to mine and it works great now. It isn't that hard either even if you don't have advanced soldering skills.

 

[Diggerman]

That presentation by Jotego was fascinating. Getting some inside info on how AES+ was designed and produced. Very cool. Sounds like they are trying to do things well and not cheaping out at every turn like so many products do.

 

[Genesis Knight]

From another translation on Reddit:

Cartridges are expensive and PLAION is not getting much profit (if any) at 80€/90$ (this implies that future games will be more expensive)

They have a budget for two production run in this first batch/launch (in case the first run has issue with ASICS bugs, etc,)

Not sure what to make about the fact that they're planning in advance for possible bugs that need updated hardware?! Do customers get an exchange program? Naively I would have thought they would just need to make sure they have extensive testing to make sure they're shipping a product that's bug-free, since they can't update it.

Sadly I do wonder if this bit about cartridge profitability corroborates those other rumors about a higher price point for future waves.

 

[Lagduf]

I hope they release Nam 1975

X > All

Sorry, the original is still the best.

PS: 2 > X

 

[NeoSeeD]

Not only this….but also the US TG16 library is pretty limited. Obviously a big part of the library is JPN only. If the plan is to make money selling games, many of them may have to be translated.

Is that hard to do? Maybe not…but still another thing to factor in.

A sizable amount of the PCE library needs little to no translation. The holy grail, Rondo already has an official translation but it was never pressed onto disc, thanks for Limited Run dropping the ball.

 

[lithy]

Less than 2 weeks since it was announced and still more than 6 months until it comes out and we've already significantly sidetracked our wishcasting to now include a level of success that will spawn a TurboGrafx+.

Never change goobs.

 

[Hattori Hanzo]

It all started with some ESRB ratings.

 

[Tarma]

That said, phwoar… a white Metal Slug 4 - that could be the most hated game on the system EVER.

The fuck you talkin' 'bout Willis?

Any and every MS4 cart should be brown.

T U R D B R O W N

 

[neo_mao]

32x+

 

[Nostromo]

• The cartridges are where they earn the least amount of money as the carts are very expensive to produce

Are they using Mask Roms? That would be insane.

 

[Burning Fight!!]

• For crt the output is RGB. HDMI had to be adjusted for compatibility reasons. He said he couldn't remember the exact details, but basically they had to slightly adjust the frequency to maintain display compatibility for HDMI. If you're a purist connect via RGB, otherwise you use HDMI. Jotego further notes that the adjustment primarily applied to a golf game (likely Big Tournament Golf)

I hope this is an on/off compat mode thing, otherwise what's the point of going full goob on replicating the Neo-Geo hardware... btw Super Sidekicks 2, 3, NG98 and Ultimate 11 also rely heavily on scanline interrupts, and surely there are more games that use those interrupts that would look slightly off with improper timing?

I hope the firmware at least has "hacks" for all these edge cases in commercial games if you're using HDMI.

Nostromo, I know that you goob.

 

[Nostromo]

I hope this is an on/off compat mode thing, otherwise what's the point of going full goob on replicating the Neo-Geo hardware... btw Super Sidekicks 2, 3, NG98 and Ultimate 11 also rely heavily on scanline interrupts, and surely there are more games that use those interrupts that would look slightly off with improper timing?

It is because of the Neo Geo not outputting in-spec 60hz frequency. The core has to run very slightly faster to match the TV frequency. It might be switchable, I doubt. Also, I hope that the whole system runs at 60hz, and not it keeps running at 59.2hz or whatever, but the image runs in 60hz (which would introduce stuttering from hell).

 

[Taiso]

Sooooo.....no mah jong controller, then?

Plaion, you make me sad.

 

[neo_mao]

mah dong

 

[Taiso]

Soooo....no mah dong controller, then?

Plaion, you make the hyphen sad.

 

[Genesis Knight]

Are they using Mask Roms? That would be insane.

Jotego says they're flash carts in that video posted above.

 

[Nostromo]

Jotego says they're flash carts in that video posted above.

Does he say in the video if using the HDMI the console frequency matches the display frequency?

 

[heihachi]

Sadly I do wonder if this bit about cartridge profitability corroborates those other rumors about a higher price point for future waves.

If they do raise the prices on carts for wave 2 (and the console/first wave of carts meet expectations from a quality perspective), it makes the strategy for what titles to include next a little more interesting. Some of the more demanded titles like Samsho 2 and KOF 98 have cheap enough original copies that I don't think anyone would pay $150 or $200 for those, at least with the current prices of the originals. But $200 for the slugs and other higher priced stuff is still a relative bargain.