Ninja Combat - No sound

DEL 707

Cheng's Errand Boy
Joined
Jan 9, 2014
Posts
120
My latest purchase turned up today, Ninja Combat for the MVS, but as the title suggests, I have no sound.

I've used some DeoxIT and cotten buds and cleaned the connector contacts, got a fair amount of shit off them, but still no sound. Tried out a few other games just to make my MVS wasn't playing up, but it seems fine.

I'm going to contact the seller to let him know about the problem, but I was wondering if there was anything I could do over the weekend to hopefully rectify the problem.
 

GadgetUK

Ace Ghost Pilot
Joined
Sep 27, 2013
Posts
1,321
If you've cleaned it up and there's no sound at all, I would be looking at the M1 chip. If you are lucky it could be a dry solder joint. Other than that you will probably need to swap out the M1 with an EPROM.
 

aha2940

AH, A, COLUMBIAN!,
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If you've cleaned it up and there's no sound at all, I would be looking at the M1 chip. If you are lucky it could be a dry solder joint. Other than that you will probably need to swap out the M1 with an EPROM.

Had this problem before with a Sonic Wings 3 cart. It was indeed the M1 chip, replaced it with an EPROM and works like a charm!

Regards.
 

DEL 707

Cheng's Errand Boy
Joined
Jan 9, 2014
Posts
120
Thanks for the replies.

My 1st reaction was that I've been screwed by the seller, so I was going to send it back, but it's not like he can send me a replacement.

Repairing the game though, that is very appealing. Are there any guides out there for this procedure? How hard and expensive is this to do?

On the off chance, could it because I don't have -5V going into my MVS?
 

aha2940

AH, A, COLUMBIAN!,
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Thanks for the replies.

My 1st reaction was that I've been screwed by the seller, so I was going to send it back, but it's not like he can send me a replacement.

Repairing the game though, that is very appealing. Are there any guides out there for this procedure? How hard and expensive is this to do?

On the off chance, could it because I don't have -5V going into my MVS?

If your MVS works fine with other original carts, then most probably the problem is not the MVS. Replacing an M1 chip is easy if you have done soldering jobs before. The hardest part is desoldering the chip, I recommend having a solder sucker to get it out easily. Getting the EPROM ie easy, I got it from Xian Xi, but you might also buy it from www.buyicnow.com and send them the ROM file so they send you back the EPROM with the ROM burned.

Best regards.
 

Asure

Captain Dick,
Joined
Sep 14, 2001
Posts
644
I've had good success with replacing M1 chips in games that had no sound at all over the years.
Just use a side cutter to cut our the old chip, then desolder the stumps of metal with a pair of tweezers.
Next up, clean out the holes with some solder wick (or use a solder sucker/pump/whatever floats your boat).

Many people on here should be able to burn you the M1 chip, i'm in Europe, so that's not really helpful and shipping one chip costs more than the chip itself :)
 

DEL 707

Cheng's Errand Boy
Joined
Jan 9, 2014
Posts
120
I got round to taking her apart today, I couldn't see any cracked solder, but thought I'd spend the extra minute reflowing the pins. Still no change in symptoms though.

Does anyone know a company or person that offer EPROM programming services in the UK, or in Europe?

... and send them the ROM file so they send you back the EPROM with the ROM burned.

What ROM file do I need to send them? The Ninja Combat ROM, the 1 you use for MAME?

Also, little side question, is there a way to get a cart apart without damaging the label?
 

Asure

Captain Dick,
Joined
Sep 14, 2001
Posts
644
Does anyone know a company or person that offer EPROM programming services in the UK, or in Europe?
What ROM file do I need to send them? The Ninja Combat ROM, the 1 you use for MAME?
Also, little side question, is there a way to get a cart apart without damaging the label?

- http://www.hobbyroms.com/shipping.html
- The M1 rom from the Mame dump.
- Sure:
1. Get the screws loose, then tap them out gently.
2. Set the cart down on a or desk table, connector towards you
3. Gently open the top half, about 8 mm should do it. The part with the label acts as a hinge. Do not open too far!
4. Grab the plastic guide which holds the two boards in place, lift it up about 5mm.
5. It should now be free and you can slide it out from the off the two pcb's.
6. Top board comes out easy
7. Bottom board requires some balancing but can be removed in the same way.
8. Gently lower the top half back onto the bottom half.

This way you never fold the cart label, and do not get a crease on most carts. However, if there are bubbles under the sticker/label it might still get a bit of damage. Practice makes perfect :)

Disclaimer: There is some little electronics inside the cart that may cause sound to malfunction as well, but replacing the M1 rom is an obvious fix.
There's no warranty that this will work/fix the cart, but you can always try. :)
 
Last edited:

aha2940

AH, A, COLUMBIAN!,
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Exactly what Asure suggested. Only difference is I used www.buyicnow.com to get some EPROM I needed. It's inexpensive IMO, but slow as hell.

Regards.
 

DEL 707

Cheng's Errand Boy
Joined
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Posts
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Thanks for all the help so far.

- The M1 rom from the Mame dump.

I really have no idea what that means or how I do that. Also does it matter what version the ROM file is, think my set is an old 0.48
 

bustedstr8

Trollbox Trade Federation,
Joined
Oct 15, 2007
Posts
943
009M1 is the same for both sets, so it doesn't matter what file you DL.

If you can't find something local I will ship one across the pond for $14
 

aha2940

AH, A, COLUMBIAN!,
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009M1 is the same for both sets, so it doesn't matter what file you DL.

If you can't find something local I will ship one across the pond for $14

The difference between the versions is because of the P1 chip, M1 is identical in both. IIRC, the difference is that one of the versions have difficulty option on AES mode, the original one (older) does not have it. This happens to several other games, Magician Lord and Shock Troopers come to mind, but they are not the only ones.
 

Xian Xi

JammaNationX,
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Dec 1, 2005
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27,714
This is all assuming it's a bad M1 though. It isn't a guarantee. You should either get a refund or have someone look at it in case it's something else.
 

fremen

Hardened Shock Trooper
Joined
Aug 4, 2010
Posts
433
Hi,

I can do it if DEL 707 wants, but I'm in Spain.

Un saludo
 
Last edited:

ne7

Armored Scrum Object
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Aug 12, 2008
Posts
268
Just a quick one: worth clearing battery ram via the test mode on the MVS - I've had early games like Burning Fight and Ninja Combat play no sound until I clear out the battery ram > suddenly the sound will kick back in...
 

DEL 707

Cheng's Errand Boy
Joined
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Posts
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Just a quick one: worth clearing battery ram via the test mode on the MVS - I've had early games like Burning Fight and Ninja Combat play no sound until I clear out the battery ram > suddenly the sound will kick back in...

Sorry, but how do I do that? I have a universal BIOS.

Been a bit slack with this, since i got it cheap, but finally got the ROM file from my backup drive. Opened it up and found a file called "009-m1.m1" that's 128kb in size, I take it this is what I'm after.
 

Asure

Captain Dick,
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644
Yes, this is the rom you burn or have to get burned. It goes on a NEC 27C1000A for example, not a 27C010.
 

shadowkn55

Genbu's Turtle Keeper
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Yes, this is the rom you burn or have to get burned. It goes on a NEC 27C1000A for example, not a 27C010.

The silkscreen on the pcb is mislabeled. According to the part number on the mask rom, a 27C010 eprom is a suitable equivalent for M1.
 

Asure

Captain Dick,
Joined
Sep 14, 2001
Posts
644
The silkscreen on the pcb is mislabeled. According to the part number on the mask rom, a 27C010 eprom is a suitable equivalent for M1.
Indeed. Confusion everywhere :)

@DEL707: A 27C010 it is. If everything else fails, send me a PM, i can burn roms as well.
 

ne7

Armored Scrum Object
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Aug 12, 2008
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268
Hold (B)+(C)+(D) as it boots up, go into Hardware Test, advance with start button > you'll get to a screen that says clear sram (or something similar) do that and reboot the machine > see if that fixes it...

^ Failing that flip all the dipswitches to on position + reboot MVS, wait for test to finish, turn MVS off > then flip em back to off again, turn machine on - sram is reset.
 

DEL 707

Cheng's Errand Boy
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Posts
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Bit of a blast from the past, after going a few months without a MVS, then completely forgetting about the cart itself. I finally replaced the M1 chip on the cart yesterday, sadly it hasn't fixed the fault.
 

Xian Xi

JammaNationX,
Joined
Dec 1, 2005
Posts
27,714
It's most likely one of the LS174s, I had a Nam cart that had the same issue and it was a dead LS174 on the PROG board. If you have an audible logic probe you can hear the music when tapping the V rom and then trace it to which LS174 handles it and then if the music is on the inputs but not the outputs then that's the problem one.
 
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