OFFICIAL N-G.com Star Trek Thread

joe9

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I watched Star Trek Nemesis for the first time probably since I saw it in the theater 20 years ago.

I won’t say the film is bad…just boring. The 2nd opening sequence at the wedding is probably the high point and then it’s all downhill.

Stupid chase sequences aside the movie is technically competent, just entirely dull. Really there is no sense of urgency or desperation in any of the fights.

The Picard clone thing is an interesting idea but ultimately half baked. A bit too philosophical for an action sci-fi movie, but I don’t think they full explored the duality/nature vs nurture aspect in any meaningful way.

RIP Data. Died an absolute hero, however, his death scene and the follow up scenes really lack the depth of say Spock’s death.

I guess it was better than when Jadzia died (that was some horseshit - although the episode where Worf wages hell on the dominion in her honor to send her to Sto’vo’kor was legendary good.)

They say this film killed the franchise until the ‘09 reboot/alternate timeline series.

Did they have plans for more films had Nemesis been a success? I wonder if they wanted a Search for Spock style story for Data, it seems Spiner has very much been interested in Trek given his continual appearances.

Of course maybe Stewart was content to just keep making that X Men money at the time.
Nemesis was released at the same time as one of the Lord of the Rings movies, that's one reason it didn't get all that much box office take. Star Trek and LOTR have just about the same audience, so those people didn't go and see both. And it was also competing directly with Die Another Day (James Bond) and Harry Potter.

They were planning to make another movie. That's why they had B4 (to replace Data in the next film).

Does anyone know if Star Trek: Picard is in the alternate timeline, or the TNG timeline?
They are trying to make everything in the alternate timeline now. Which I assume has it's own canon, separate from the TOS/TNG/DS9 canon. But with Picard, maybe they were forced to set in the TNG canon/timeline (to some degree), as it wouldn't make sense otherwise.
 
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basic

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Nemesis was released at the same time as one of the Lord of the Rings movies, that's one reason it didn't get all that much box office take. Star Trek and LOTR have just about the same audience, so those people didn't go and see both. It was a decent movie. And the even-numbered Star Treks are normally considered the best.
They were planning to make another movie. That's why they had B4 (to replace Data in the next film).
it is also said that, in mexico, miata is a derogatory term for homosexuals and it translates to "dung beetle"
 

Fygee

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Nemesis was crippled by bad plot choices (that freaking dune buggy, Troi mind rape, and all of B4) and also a lot of good scenes that would have made the movie much better getting left on the cutting room floor. See below.


Season finale of SNW was fantastic.
 

Lagduf

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Nemesis was released at the same time as one of the Lord of the Rings movies, that's one reason it didn't get all that much box office take. Star Trek and LOTR have just about the same audience, so those people didn't go and see both. It was a decent movie. And the even-numbered Star Treks are normally considered the best.
They were planning to make another movie. That's why they had B4 (to replace Data in the next film).

Does anyone know if Star Trek: Picard is in the alternate timeline, or the TNG timeline?
They are trying to make everything in the alternate timeline now. Which I assume has it's own canon, separate from the TOS/TNG/DS9 canon. But with Picard, maybe they were forced to set in the TNG canon/timeline (to some degree), as it wouldn't make sense otherwise.

Picard is in the main timeline, it takes place around the year 2400 IIRC.
 

HornheaDD

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Just finished SNW's season finale. It was an OK ep, nothing wrong with it but if you ask me the actor they got to play James Kirk was too skinny. The Shat was even just a tiny bit beefier as a young actor, and even Chris Pine had a little meat on his bones. This guy didn't even show any of Kirk's mannerisms, and hilariously, Anson Mount's Pike sounded more like Shat-Kirk lol. Good episode, decent set up for the next season in regard to #1. But here's where I get pissed...

Spoiler:
HEMMER? Seriously? You fucking killed HEMMER? Other than Pike he was probably the most likeable and cool character on the show. Sure he went out in a big sacrifice for the crew, but fucking seriously? When you have a perfectly sacrificeable and write-off-the-showable POS La'Ann to sacrifice? It would have been almost poetic to have that annoying bitch be infected by the Gorn, because 'she knows so much' about the Gorn and would want to protect the rest of the crew. ANNND - she decides to leave Enterprise to go on a scavenger hunt with this rando kid? Buh - stupid stupid stupid. Maybe they'll do some time travel wizardry and bring him back.
 

Lagduf

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Spoilers Ahoy:

Just finished SNW's season finale. It was an OK ep, nothing wrong with it but if you ask me the actor they got to play James Kirk was too skinny. The Shat was even just a tiny bit beefier as a young actor, and even Chris Pine had a little meat on his bones. This guy didn't even show any of Kirk's mannerisms, and hilariously, Anson Mount's Pike sounded more like Shat-Kirk lol. Good episode, decent set up for the next season in regard to #1. But here's where I get pissed...

Spoiler:
HEMMER? Seriously? You fucking killed HEMMER? Other than Pike he was probably the most likeable and cool character on the show. Sure he went out in a big sacrifice for the crew, but fucking seriously? When you have a perfectly sacrificeable and write-off-the-showable POS La'Ann to sacrifice? It would have been almost poetic to have that annoying bitch be infected by the Gorn, because 'she knows so much' about the Gorn and would want to protect the rest of the crew. ANNND - she decides to leave Enterprise to go on a scavenger hunt with this rando kid? Buh - stupid stupid stupid. Maybe they'll do some time travel wizardry and bring him back.

I don't think it was the best episode this season, but I do think it was a beautiful homage to the original Balance of Terror and really just a letter to Trek fans that basically said: Hey, we actually know Trek, understand what is important, and want to respect its legacy.

I liked that it showcased that part of life and lived experience is just...random. Pike in the alternate future was absolutely right in his approach to dealing with the Romulans. Kirk, in the original timeline was also absolutely right. Neither were wrong. But I think ultimately the point of the episode was for Pike to see that he could not escape his fate once he had accepted the time crystal. Yes, he could change it, however, it was simply not meant to be - and the near-death of Spock (along with the Romulan War) served as only a chilling reminder. Knowing his fate, and accepting the crystal are just part of his duty (edit: hell, future pike realized this - he went back in time to convince himself to condemn himself to horrific paralysis!). Frankly I hope it's not an arc he has to wrestle with much more in any future seasons (save a final season.)

I wonder if the inclusion of Kirk was to gauge whether they could do a TOS reboot. Though if the quality maintains I'd like to see SNW get seven seasons, with a good 2-3 episodes of the final season dealing with Pike's accident and maybe even a remake of the episode where Spock brings him to Talos IV. I'd like to see Pike on Talos IV, happy with Vina, riding a horse in to the sunset to explore his Strange New World.

EDIT: Related but I didn't know where to post it: How fucking cool was it to see Pike in the movie era uniform - that's a nice nod to fans, who understood the situation immediately. They're remake of the movie era uniforms also looked excellent. Like I said this was an episode for Trek fans.
 
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joe9

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Picard is in the main timeline, it takes place around the year 2400 IIRC.
By main timeline, I'm assuming you mean the original TOS/TNG/Enterprise timeline, not the newer alternate timeline?
It looks like, in general, they don't want to do Star Trek in the old timeline any more.

I think the new Star Trek series are similar to the new Stars Wars movies, which doesn't have Lucas any more. If they want to make Star Trek better, they should bring back some of the people who produced the old series (apart from Rod Roddenberry)- Brannon Braga, for example. And they need more appearances from actors from that era, besides Spock, Picard & the Next Gen characters. But they are obviously trying to make the new TV series as much a break from the past as they can, which I don't agree with. They had a big critical & box office hit with the first Star Trek reboot film, and now they want to do everything the same as that.
 
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Lagduf

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Yes, it’s not in the alternate timeline created in Star Trek 2009.
 

Lagduf

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a lot of good scenes that would have made the movie much better getting left on the cutting room floor. See below.

Just getting around to watching this, wow. Stewart clearly understood the character. I can’t believe how good that scene with Picard and Data was.

I wish they hadn’t leaned so hard in to the action when clearly the core of this film was a bit more cerebral.

It’s too bad in Picard S2 they explored Picard’s feelings in such a hare-brained way. They didn’t need the tragedy of his mother to be what underpinned his reluctance to get close to others. It easily could have been that he chose duty instead - after all he had a “family” aboard the enterprise for 15+ years. There is no shame that he chose duty instead of his own family.

I guess this is a story though they’ve been struggling to tell since generations.

The Troi psychic rape makes no sense except to give Riker someone to beat.
 
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Lagduf

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Thinking about it, the clone story overall was kind of dumb given we already had an adjacent story in the whole Borg/Locutus Arc that, to some extent, explored issues of the self.
 

joe9

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Just getting around to watching this, wow. Stewart clearly understood the character. I can’t believe how good that scene with Picard and Data was.

I wish they hadn’t leaned so hard in to the action when clearly the core of this film was a bit more cerebral.
I find that to be true of other Star Trek as well, the "cerebral" parts of the episode are more entertaining than the "action" parts. But it's Star Trek, so there has to be some action. With the action scenes (battles between starships), you often (kind of) know what the outcome is going to be anyway. And you've already seen a thousand Star Trek action scenes before. So, it's the storywriting that really makes a good episode.

Some scenes were cut for time, to make it less than 2 hours. But the first Star Trek movie (The Motion Picture) was longer than 2 hours. And the film it was competing against in the cinemas, LOTR The Two Towers, was 3 hours long.
 
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Fygee

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I enjoyed the Nemesis ship battle a lot, if anything just for fundamental Trek nerd reasons.

Trek loves to withhold the combat capabilities of the hero ship for plot and dramatic reasons in the movies (I'm especially looking at you Generations and Into Darkness) and occasionally on TV, so it was nice to see the Enterprise E use all its phasers and torpedoes like it should).
 

zaneiken

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If they want to make Star Trek better, they should bring back some of the people who produced the old series (apart from Rod Roddenberry)- Brannon Braga, for example.

Braga is busy with The Orville, along with Andre Bormanis. Everyone involved in that show is doing a fantastic job at old-style Trek.
 

joe9

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Braga is busy with The Orville, along with Andre Bormanis. Everyone involved in that show is doing a fantastic job at old-style Trek.
But isn't The Orville a parody/comedy version of Star Trek? Haven't seen much of it.
 
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zaneiken

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But isn't Orville a parody/comedy version of Star Trek? Haven't seen much of it.
It started out as a comedy (which didn't work) but now it's very much in the vein of TNG-era Trek. It was definitely the place to go for old-school Star Trek fans when Discovery nearly ruined the franchise.
 

HornheaDD

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It started out as a comedy (which didn't work) but now it's very much in the vein of TNG-era Trek. It was definitely the place to go for old-school Star Trek fans when Discovery nearly ruined the franchise.
This is inaccurate. It did work. Unexpectedly so, especially with Seth McFarlane as the creator and main protagonist. But it did work. This last season has about 10% of the comedy that was peppered into the show before and it actually doesn't work now. Now it literally just feels like a knockoff. A woke, annoying knock off, just like Discovery.

Admittedly Wokeville still feels like TNG more than Discovery ever did/will, but it's still pulling the same woke shit that infected Young Justice and just about every other film/movie out there now.
 

joe9

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It started out as a comedy (which didn't work) but now it's very much in the vein of TNG-era Trek. It was definitely the place to go for old-school Star Trek fans when Discovery nearly ruined the franchise.
I didn't know that. I was just about to suggest (in my post) that they should change it to being a normal "Trek" show.
But I thought with Braga and Bormanis working on it, it would hopefully be more like Voyager & Enterprise than Discovery.
 
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joe9

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I’m only thankful for discovery giving us Strange New Worlds.
Maybe the success of Orville is pushing them to make Strange New Worlds better than Discovery. SNW seems to have more intellectual dialogue between the characters, than Discovery had. But it's still not like Orville, where there's a scientific advisor (Bormanis). Orville is like the old Star Treks, where there's some attempt to make the technology featured vaguely plausible.
 

Lagduf

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That's actually a very good point, I had not considered the early success of the Orville being a driving force for SNW.
 

HornheaDD

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Last week's Orville was surprisingly good. A first for this season. Mercer basically pulled what Janeway did to Tuvix.

Had a few bits of humor, and naturally if a sci-fi show features time travel, they are obviously only able to go into the past which just happens to be contemporary modern day US/UK/JPN, lol. Its always modern day, or the middle ages lol
 

Fygee

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I don't think the Orville was a big inspiration for SNW. Sure, there was a good number of loud nerds saying the Oriville is "real trek", but there was a much louder cry from more nerds that Discovery and Picard had lost the spirit of Trek independent from it. Add in the popularity of Pike, Spock, and Una from S2 of Discovery from those who did enjoy it, and you've got a great reason to have a series.
 
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