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famicommander

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Anyway, any other good Voyager episodes to watch?
Year of Hell is probably the best. Two-parter, with Red Foreman.

But yeah, the Tuvix episode just demonstrates how shitty a captain and person Janeway is.
 

Lagduf

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I believe you mean Clarence Boddicker.

Is that the one where he has the timeline altering ship?
 

Fygee

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Year of Hell is probably the best. Two-parter, with Red Foreman.

But yeah, the Tuvix episode just demonstrates how shitty a captain and person Janeway is.
Nah. She made the right call, IMO. But that's the whole point of the episode. There really is no defined right answer.
 

famicommander

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Nah. She made the right call, IMO. But that's the whole point of the episode. There really is no defined right answer.
They tried to make it seem as if there were no right answer, but they're idiots and hacks so they fucked it up. Killing Tuvix was absolutely the wrong choice.

There is no argument for murdering Tuvix. The episode shows that Neelix and Tuvok were already dead. So essentially they murdered an innocent man to perform an act of necromancy and revive Janeway's friends. Even though the episode itself makes it clear that Tuvix was better at both Neelix and Tuvok's jobs at the same time than either of them individually.

Janeway has no principles.
 

Lagduf

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Try "Blink of an Eye" or "Latent Image". Both good episodes.

I’d seen Blink of an Eye recently. Decent little story.

I really enjoyed Latent Image, particularly how it ended. No clear cut, feel good ending, instead truly bittersweet look in to the doctor learning to become human.
 

mainman

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I watched the Tuvix episode of Voyager because I had never seen it. I have to say the end of that episode is fucked. Kudos to the Doctor for being the only crew member with some balls. What an absolutely sad episode.
I wonder if Neelix is still alive


Message in a Bottle and Living Witness are good episodes.
 
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mainman

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So no one is going to talk about the elephant in the room of Picard and Beverly having sex.
 

joe8

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Has anyone seen Star Trek New Voyages, and Star Trek Continues?
They're fan-made continuations of the original series.
 
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Lagduf

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Finally getting around to watching Strange New Worlds S2 and I’ll be watching Lower Decks S4 as well.

Spoilers ahoy:

Interesting season opener. I liked it - seems Spock’s arc will be him perhaps becoming more Vulcan?

LOL at stealing the enterprise. Guess they want to show Spock will do what it takes for someone he trusts?

I really hope we get a new version of the TOS episode where Spock steals the enterprise and rescues Pike when the series ends.

Also what’s up with the Dr storyline about the Klingon War. They’re just piling on the Dr and giving him shit to deal with lol. First his daughter and now this lol.

The Klingons looked great in the first episode.

And I guess they’re entirely retconning the Gorn from TOS? Weren’t they in TAS as well?
 

Fygee

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In my head canon, Disco, SNW, and Lower Decks are all another timeline. It makes sense and takes all the canon baggage off. There was a blurb in particular in Tommow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow where the baddie referenced that she'd been there since 1992. That's the year Khan was supposed to kick off the Eugenics Wars. But that didn't happen, and it turns out he wasn't born until much later, let alone old enough to kick off a planetary scale war.

If comics and comic book movies can have multiple timelines/dimensions, then why can't Trek? The JJ movies showed it can be done and it's viable both in purposes of canon and practicality. There's been multiple TNG episodes showing different dimensions/realities, not to mention the whole Mirror Universe. Just embrace it already.

Nonetheless, the reality is that its a TV show, and once you have nearly 60 years worth of canon to contend with, it gets really difficult to tell stories from eras that have already been seen on the screen without being in a giant minefield of canon to uphold. Suspension of disbelief as a viewer is needed.

All that said, season 2 of SNW was fantastic, though it didn't grab me quite as hard as season 1 did. Hated the musical episode, but I just dislike musicals so it doesn't necessarily mean it's bad.

M'benga is the new Miles O'Brien, in that he's the new character that's made to suffer repeatedly for drama. That episode was intense as hell though and one of my favorites. If they had portrayed the Klingon War like that in Disco, it would have had a much better impact.
 

HornheaDD

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Ehhh Lower Decks is mainline canon though. they reference a LOT of TNG stuff and have had characters like Riker show up and it follows a lot of what happened in TNG (and now Voyager). The crossover ep with SNW and the musical episode (yes... musical episode) are 200% magic though.

No spoilers - but in the musical episode, the Klingons steal the god damned show. Its brilliant.

Discovery is bullshit so who cares what timeline its in. Trash it. Ignore it. Never happened. Garbage.

I dont believe SNW is retconning per se, but evidently there are 'two types of Gorn.' The type you see that Kirk fought in TOS, and these more Xenomorph lookin dudes.

Two factions, sub races, etc.
 

Lagduf

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In my head canon, Disco, SNW, and Lower Decks are all another timeline. It makes sense and takes all the canon baggage off. There was a blurb in particular in Tommow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow where the baddie referenced that she'd been there since 1992. That's the year Khan was supposed to kick off the Eugenics Wars. But that didn't happen, and it turns out he wasn't born until much later, let alone old enough to kick off a planetary scale war.

If comics and comic book movies can have multiple timelines/dimensions, then why can't Trek? The JJ movies showed it can be done and it's viable both in purposes of canon and practicality. There's been multiple TNG episodes showing different dimensions/realities, not to mention the whole Mirror Universe. Just embrace it already.

Nonetheless, the reality is that its a TV show, and once you have nearly 60 years worth of canon to contend with, it gets really difficult to tell stories from eras that have already been seen on the screen without being in a giant minefield of canon to uphold. Suspension of disbelief as a viewer is needed.

All that said, season 2 of SNW was fantastic, though it didn't grab me quite as hard as season 1 did. Hated the musical episode, but I just dislike musicals so it doesn't necessarily mean it's bad.

M'benga is the new Miles O'Brien, in that he's the new character that's made to suffer repeatedly for drama. That episode was intense as hell though and one of my favorites. If they had portrayed the Klingon War like that in Disco, it would have had a much better impact.

M’Benga as the O’Brien makes sense. Yeah unless I misheard M’Benga said a 100 million died in the war? They certainly presented it in that episode as something absolutely horrific. It was…not that in Discovery lol.

The first episode seemed like it had quite the impressive budget. Lots of Klingons, practical Endor set plus a ton of CGI, etc. They must be dropping a ton of money on this.

I’m fine with any retcons or continuity boo boos anyway. In my head canon the Gorn confederation are eventually allied with Federation because that’s how it is in the alternate Starfleet Universe.
 

Fygee

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Ehhh Lower Decks is mainline canon though. they reference a LOT of TNG stuff and have had characters like Riker show up and it follows a lot of what happened in TNG (and now Voyager). The crossover ep with SNW and the musical episode (yes... musical episode) are 200% magic though.

No spoilers - but in the musical episode, the Klingons steal the god damned show. Its brilliant.

Discovery is bullshit so who cares what timeline its in. Trash it. Ignore it. Never happened. Garbage.

I dont believe SNW is retconning per se, but evidently there are 'two types of Gorn.' The type you see that Kirk fought in TOS, and these more Xenomorph lookin dudes.

Two factions, sub races, etc.
Supposedly it is, but it makes zero sense for those kind of comedic shenanigans to be happening in the main universe, and now that Boims and Mariner appeared on the (really amazing) crossover episode, that could be a loophole for a different timeline too.

Honestly IMO it should be treated as non-canon and just for fun.

Not all of Discovery is bullshit IMO. I mostly enjoyed seasons 1 and 2, especially 2. The Mirror Universe stuff was fantastic. Saru as a character is great. We got SNW out of it. Season 3 was pretty ok with some good moments. Season 4....well, just couldn't get into it. That said, the show definitely has it's flaws with Burnham's constant intense whispering and over-emoting, flagrant disregard for canon, undercooked concepts and writing, shaky cam, and that god awful "blue and amber everything" lighting.

SNW pretty flagrantly retconned (retkhanned?) Khan and the Eugenics Wars, and also somewhat the Gorn as they had never been seen before by anyone in Starfleet prior to when Kirk had his mano y mano with the rubber suit one. There's always a sci-fi way to write an explanation why things are they way they are, but I think they play just a little too fast and loose with things that retcon major established plot points. Gotta say though, I'm loving the Gorn being the semi-mysterious baddies. They're doing a fantastic job with it.

Anyways, nuts and bolts, best not to overthink it and just enjoy the shows for what they are. Admittedly that can be pretty difficult to do since the series is so steeped in canon and nerdy overanalyzation. Obviously we're guilty of the latter.

M’Benga as the O’Brien makes sense. Yeah unless I misheard M’Benga said a 100 million died in the war? They certainly presented it in that episode as something absolutely horrific. It was…not that in Discovery lol.

The first episode seemed like it had quite the impressive budget. Lots of Klingons, practical Endor set plus a ton of CGI, etc. They must be dropping a ton of money on this.

I’m fine with any retcons or continuity boo boos anyway. In my head canon the Gorn confederation are eventually allied with Federation because that’s how it is in the alternate Starfleet Universe.
SNW has a pretty meaty budget, and it's apparently paying off as they were the top streaming show for a few weeks towards the end of the season. It's not Game of Thrones money, but its definitely, along with Disco, the most well funded of Star Trek shows ever.
 

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OK I will admit - Discovery gave the Trek universe two great things:

Strange New Worlds and Saru. 100% on Saru. I wish they'd figure out some way of putting him in a mainline Trek show. Doug Jones just kills it as Saru.
 

Fygee

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OK I will admit - Discovery gave the Trek universe two great things:

Strange New Worlds and Saru. 100% on Saru. I wish they'd figure out some way of putting him in a mainline Trek show. Doug Jones just kills it as Saru.
Preach. Time travel his ass back to the 23rd century and give him his own show as captain.
 

Lagduf

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SNW S2 Spoilers ahead:

Ep 2: Not bad, not great. Glad to see a
Court episode but not as memorable as drumhead or measure of a man.

Ep 3: Time Travel, lol? The new Kirk is growing on me. Interesting they officially explained Temporal Wars or other shenanigans changed the Eugenics War timeline (presumably WW3 as well.)

Ep 4: Rigel VII? That’s a deep cut. Decent TOS style adventure. Nothing to write home about.
 

Lagduf

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Does the continued inclusion of Kirk mean we’re eventually getting a TOS reboot?
 

Lagduf

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Aw man, Those Old Scientists was great.

You’d have to have no heart to not enjoy that.

We’re definitely in the second Golden age of Trek.

After S5 Diacovery I hope we get another show.
 

Lagduf

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And holy shit the next episode, talk about a difference in tone.

Yikes. Best Ep of the season so far?
 
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