Picard

[SouthtownKid]

and they also won't take J.Michael Straczynski's calls.

So it's not all bad news.

 

[Fygee]

Long time trek nerd here. Prepare for a long-ish read. Also, spoilers, so skip reading after the quotes if you don't want anything ruined for you.

First and foremost, I'm really enjoying the show. It's well crafted, focuses a lot more on character, has solid writing, and is more deliberate without relying on crappy shaky-cam and ADHD style editing like a lot of modern sci-fi relies on.

If you loved TNG, then I highly recommend watching it. Just keep in mind that it's a slow burn, and a lot of "???" moments aren't going to be answered until we're further down the road. Best to keep an open mind and let the show reveal it's answers and story goals than instantly jump down its throat because something seems weird in the first two episodes.

One thing they touched on with Picard often being a background character and not really being all that close to anyone on board the ship.

I never minded Picard, and there were some decent episodes with him at the front, but most of the best episodes weren't with him at the center stage.

...and they were right about his relationship with Data...it wasn't super deep.

Picard deliberately kept himself at a distance from his crew, partly because of trauma from the Stargazer, and partly because he didn't want attachments clouding his judgment from making decisions as a captain. He cared for his crew, but kept it close to the chest in case he would ever need to order any of them into danger, which he often did.

The last scene from the TNG series finale where he finally sits down to play cards with the crew, and regretting it took him so long serves as a jumping point where he allows himself to start forming stronger personal bonds.

Fast forward to Nemesis, Data sacrifices himself to save Picard's life right in front of him, and it's clear that it's affected him deeply as time went on, particularly now that he's retired and doesn't need to be "Starfleet" Picard anymore.

Spoiler:

Add in the news of his condition in episode 2 (also a throwback to the TNG series finale), explaining his recent and frequent vivid dreams about Data.

It makes total sense within the story and characters as we know them.

you can tell kurtzman is involved in this with all the woke SJW shit going on, just like STD.

Star Trek has been "SJW/woke" since the first series pilot in 1964, with Majel Barrett as the first officer of the ship. They shelved the show and forced Gene to reshoot the pilot partly because a woman in a position of power like that would have pissed off Bible Belt conservatives.

After that, you had a black female main cast member during a time when civil rights were finally becoming law, a Japanese guy 20 years after fighting a world war against them, a Russian guy from a country we were deep in a cold war with, a Scottish guy, and a half human alien that behaved completely different from all the other crew. All treated as equals, sans McCoy occasionally being a dick to Spock.

There's a ton of other examples from 56 years of Trek, but point being, all this "ERMEHGERD STAR TREK IS WOKE AND SUCKS NOW" is totally absurd. It's always been that way, and always should be that way. It's a forward thinking show with clear progressive/liberal leanings.

To be frank, I'm not even really sure about what's so "SJW" about Picard for people to bitch about.

I saw the RLM review... I'll pass

They cherry pick stuff like crazy, and come off as fans that like the shows and some of the movies, but either don't know a lot of the finer details about them or don't consider the whole lineage of the characters and story through the show and movies. "Here's a scene from TNG that shows this is dumb, and here's our funny comment about it".

They also totally fluffed the part in Picard with B4, claiming it was Data harvested from space junk.

Some of their points have some validity, especially when it comes to how the Romulans have been handled and the weird action scenes with Daj. Chalk that up to modern day whiz/bang action scenes where it needs to look more cool than practical.

Dude I fucking love Darmok but I honestly didn't know it was so revered.

Simple. It's fun and nerdy as fuck to quote. Kind of like a secret Trek fan handshake.

 

[SML]

So it's not all bad news.

lol, I really enjoyed the original B5 series. Can't speak on the movies or the spinoff, and I don't want the remake or reboot that Straczynski seems to want to launch.

All that said, man, the situation at the beginning of Picard just sounds awfully familiar.

 

[SML]

They cherry pick stuff like crazy, and come off as fans that like the shows and some of the movies, but either don't know a lot of the finer details about them or don't consider...

That's just alcohol-induced early-onset dementia, at least for Mike.

 

[Dr Shroom]

Star Trek has been "SJW/woke" since the first series pilot in 1964, with Majel Barrett as the first officer of the ship. They shelved the show and forced Gene to reshoot the pilot partly because a woman in a position of power like that would have pissed off Bible Belt conservatives.

After that, you had a black female main cast member during a time when civil rights were finally becoming law, a Japanese guy 20 years after fighting a world war against them, a Russian guy from a country we were deep in a cold war with, a Scottish guy, and a half human alien that behaved completely different from all the other crew. All treated as equals, sans McCoy occasionally being a dick to Spock.

There's a ton of other examples from 56 years of Trek, but point being, all this "ERMEHGERD STAR TREK IS WOKE AND SUCKS NOW" is totally absurd. It's always been that way, and always should be that way. It's a forward thinking show with clear progressive/liberal leanings.

To be frank, I'm not even really sure about what's so "SJW" about Picard for people to bitch about.

Except this time it's so hamfisted "refugees - you didn't help them! White federation bad!" because that is going on in the real world right now. It's so obvious where that part of the story comes from.
They tackled topics like these better and more clever in the past. I am well aware of the rest of things you mentioned.

 

[NeoSneth]

Except this time it's so hamfisted "refugees - you didn't help them! White federation bad!" because that is going on in the real world right now. It's so obvious where that part of the story comes from.
They tackled topics like these better and more clever in the past. I am well aware of the rest of things you mentioned.

That sounds more like something from the BBC lately....
They seem to inject people into all sorts of unusual casting.

 

[Dr Shroom]

The BBC doesn't care if people dislike The Doctor being a female or a black female, the general population is paying for it with their fees, they already got the money. Maybe the next one will be a tranny, who knows?

 

[titchgamer]

I dont care the BBC made the doctor a Woman, Frankly I think it was a good choice but from what I understand The Doctor was originally meant to be female.

But as usual the big wigs of the time said no it needs to be a man.

 

[SouthtownKid]

Except this time it's so hamfisted "refugees - you didn't help them! White federation bad!" because that is going on in the real world right now. It's so obvious where that part of the story comes from.

At least in episode 2, they kind of deflected the blame away from Earth to a few other Federation member planets as being the ones who argued against helping the Romulans. That makes it marginally more palatable. Although I'm sure they're going to reveal that the Synthoid "rebellion" that made helping the Romulans kind of impossible anyway was staged by Section 31 as a false flag operation.

As far as Star Trek always being "woke", I'd argue there's a difference between being forward thinking & progressive and what we have here. Because old Trek dealt with larger, more archetypal versions of issues, rather than thinly-veiled current events. That makes the way old Trek handled issues more timeless, while this is cheesy and eye-rollingly ham-fisted in the way Lucas' "You're either with me or my enemy" Anakin rant from Revenge of the Sith was.

At the very least, if you're going to have wokeness, have THE ENTIRE FEDERATION be woke. Not Picard as the lone voice of reason and compassion. That's where my complaint lies.

 

[Fygee]

Except this time it's so hamfisted "refugees - you didn't help them! White federation bad!" because that is going on in the real world right now. It's so obvious where that part of the story comes from.
They tackled topics like these better and more clever in the past. I am well aware of the rest of things you mentioned.

Thing is, it's a plot thread that's extended from the 2009 movie. So it's not brand new.

Regardless, Star Trek has frequently and intentionally mirrored real world events when it comes to its story telling. This is nothing new. Also, like SouthtownKid mentioned, there was a lot more to it than "Federation bad" according to episode 2. It also has nothing to do with "white" Federation and everything to do with a massive power that flaunts its moral high ground that should have been able to help.

Something else to consider. The Federation and Starfleet have been heavily tested and worn down by major threats. The Dominion War. Battling the Borg. Dealing with the Romulans for centuries, and wishy-washy, easy to piss off Klingon allies. The sunshine and roses Federation of TNG is long gone. Resources are lower. Tensions between worlds are higher. Fear and resentment of "the other" creeps in, especially towards a foreign power that's been doing everything it can to undermine you.

To quote Quark: "Let me tell you something about Hew-mons, Nephew. They're a wonderful, friendly people, as long as their bellies are full and their holosuites are working. But take away their creature comforts, deprive them of food, sleep, sonic showers, put their lives in jeopardy over an extended period of time and those same friendly, intelligent, wonderful people... will become as nasty and as violent as the most bloodthirsty Klingon. You don't believe me? Look at those faces. Look in their eyes."

It's good, complex storytelling in my opinion.

As far as Star Trek always being "woke", I'd argue there's a difference between being forward thinking & progressive and what we have here. Because old Trek dealt with larger, more archetypal versions of issues, rather than thinly-veiled current events. That makes the way old Trek handled issues more timeless, while this is cheesy and eye-rollingly ham-fisted in the way Lucas' "You're either with me or my enemy" Anakin rant from Revenge of the Sith was.

At the very least, if you're going to have wokeness, have THE ENTIRE FEDERATION be woke. Not Picard as the lone voice of reason and compassion. That's where my complaint lies.

Star Trek has gone back and forth with broad interpretations of issues, and thinly-veiled metaphors to current events plenty of times. TOS had literal space hippies, an episode with the Yangs versus the Cohms (the Yanks/US vs the Commies/USSR), "A Private Little War" which was direct response to the brewing war in Vietnam, etc. Star Trek 6 was all about the US and USSR trying to find peace after a major disaster (Chernobyl). TNG had the episode about a warring faction that was commentary on the IRA violence. DS9 has Far Beyond the Stars which directly showed racism in 1950s USA.

As far as the entire Federation being woke, the Federation is a massive group of member planets, many of which are clearly not as enlightened or in constant agreement with Starfleet and humanity. Part of the Federation "being woke" is being able to accept other planets and cultures that aren't exactly like Earth, provided they follow some fundamental rules in order to become a member planet.

Episode 3 also showed that Picard wasn't alone in supporting the Romulan rescue. There just wasn't enough likeminded thinkers, or those with spines to stand up for it.

Frankly, Admirals and other Federation top brass have had a long history of being selfish/self righteous assholes in TNG and DS9, so this isn't really a surprise.

 

[neobuyer]

There's one inescapable problem with TNG- Brent Spiner is human but Data isn't.

Data is the best thing in the whole ST mythology.

Except when they play him for laughs and ruin it.

Insurrection showed him for the Paladin-like hero he is.

Oh! But that was like a 2 hour TNG episode! Yes it fucking was.

Unless Nicolas Meyer is at the helm nothing in trek is as good as TNG.

 

[neojedi]

Ok... I don't care what anyone says, I'm a fan of Samurai Legolas.

 

[tacoguy]

Im kinda cautious about getting the CBS all access to watch this. Seen the RLM take on it and read some of the comments here. Just seems more like an action show than sci fi exploration show.

 

[HornheaDD]

Im kinda cautious about getting the CBS all access to watch this. Seen the RLM take on it and read some of the comments here. Just seems more like an action show than sci fi exploration show.

There's been very little action if you ask me.

Also just pirate it.

 

[SouthtownKid]

There's been very little action if you ask me.

Other than half the first episode being a kung fu fest.

 

[hermosaguy]

That's the trouble with fucking Tribbles.

Hey mainman, inbox is full. Trying to reach you, thanks!

 

[NeoSneth]

ive been pirating it. probably the only reason im watching it.

It's feeling very don Quixote. Picard is a jaded goofball and not a seasoned veteran. I really want to get behind him, but he's just doing dumb thing after dumb thing after dumb thing. It seems like its written for Patrick Stewart the the man, and not JLP.

 

[gusmoney]

I really enjoyed this past Thursday's episode eight, Broken Pieces, as it has tied a bunch of things together and given everyone some direction.

The introduction and preliminaries of a new show now seem out of the way and it has somewhere to go, full steam ahead. I am excited to see whats next.

 

[HornheaDD]

I really enjoyed this past Thursday's episode eight, Broken Pieces, as it has tied a bunch of things together and given everyone some direction.

The introduction and preliminaries of a new show now seem out of the way and it has somewhere to go, full steam ahead. I am excited to see whats next.

I agree. I don't know how many episodes are supposed to be in this season, and it seems it's going to be a full on series instead of a mini series.

It's funny, the gal that plays Soji/Daj looks so much like my buddy's daughter Jasmine.

 

[HornheaDD]

Thoughts on the finale?

 

[ShootTheCore]

I wasn't a fan. Really, Part 1 mostly lost me, and Part 2 didn't help.

Here's my abbreviated list of grievances with both episodes.

- What's the deal with Altan Soong? I'm pretty sure that ST:TNG established that Noonian Soong and his wife never had children of their own.

- Why did long range scanners pick up the Romulan Armada when they were 24 hours away but not the Federation Armada that was just a few minutes behind them?

- Sutra taught herself to perform a Vulcan Mind Meld just by reading about it? And synthetics can perform mind melds on humans? Isn't that a psionic ability?

- The Romulans were so dedicated to wiping out synthetic life, to the point that they sacrificed their own rescue 15 years ago to turn the Federation against synths, but they couldn't take the time to just drop a single proton torpedo on the synth settlement after sending an entire armada to the synth planet? First they waste a lot of time readying their weapons, then they waste a lot of time shooting at fakes of Picard's ship. Then Riker (!) shows up leading a Federation armada and the Romulans back off without firing a single shot. Again, all they had to do is get one photon torpedo through to the surface. Seems like folks that chew cyanide capsules for their cause would be a little more dedicated. Also, their ships can cloak.

- Why would the advanced synthetic race go away after the beacon was destroyed? The beacon was a call for help - if it stopped, it's probably because the synths they're supposed to rescue are under attack. Imagine if a 911 operator answered the phone to a screaming person, and then the line goes dead - everything must be fine?

- What's stopping the synths from just building another beacon?

- I guess the XBs on the downed Borg cube didn't need much help or protection after all since Seven and Elnor just take off to go adventuring with Picard at the end of the episode.

- Copying Picard's brain into a synth golem really cheapens his death after the heartfelt scenes where everyone grieved him. Especially since they didn't enhance his physical abilities or lengthen his natural lifespan. Seems like it would have been easier for the writers to have just had the synths know a new kind of brain surgery instead.

I could go on, but it was a very uneven season for me. I liked the earlier episodes more than the later ones. I like most of the revisiting cast and cameos but don't much care for most of the new characters. I'll still watch season 2 but overall this was a 6 out of 10 series for me.

 

[HornheaDD]

I wasn't a fan. Really, Part 1 mostly lost me, and Part 2 didn't help.

Here's my abbreviated list of grievances with both episodes.

- What's the deal with Altan Soong? I'm pretty sure that ST:TNG established that Noonian Soong and his wife never had children of their own.

- Why did long range scanners pick up the Romulan Armada when they were 24 hours away but not the Federation Armada that was just a few minutes behind them?

- Sutra taught herself to perform a Vulcan Mind Meld just by reading about it? And synthetics can perform mind melds on humans? Isn't that a psionic ability?

- The Romulans were so dedicated to wiping out synthetic life, to the point that they sacrificed their own rescue 15 years ago to turn the Federation against synths, but they couldn't take the time to just drop a single proton torpedo on the synth settlement after sending an entire armada to the synth planet? First they waste a lot of time readying their weapons, then they waste a lot of time shooting at fakes of Picard's ship. Then Riker (!) shows up leading a Federation armada and the Romulans back off without firing a single shot. Again, all they had to do is get one photon torpedo through to the surface. Seems like folks that chew cyanide capsules for their cause would be a little more dedicated. Also, their ships can cloak.

- Why would the advanced synthetic race go away after the beacon was destroyed? The beacon was a call for help - if it stopped, it's probably because the synths they're supposed to rescue are under attack. Imagine if a 911 operator answered the phone to a screaming person, and then the line goes dead - everything must be fine?

- What's stopping the synths from just building another beacon?

- I guess the XBs on the downed Borg cube didn't need much help or protection after all since Seven and Elnor just take off to go adventuring with Picard at the end of the episode.

- Copying Picard's brain into a synth golem really cheapens his death after the heartfelt scenes where everyone grieved him. Especially since they didn't enhance his physical abilities or lengthen his natural lifespan. Seems like it would have been easier for the writers to have just had the synths know a new kind of brain surgery instead.

I could go on, but it was a very uneven season for me. I liked the earlier episodes more than the later ones. I like most of the revisiting cast and cameos but don't much care for most of the new characters. I'll still watch season 2 but overall this was a 6 out of 10 series for me.

I will start with this - I liked the show, but had some gripes as the season went on and the finale kinda disappointed me. And for the most part I agree with just about everything you said.

The Romulan/Federation standoff can be explained off by popcorn entertainment. I didnt love it, but at the same time, I didn't hate it. But it was very 'hollywood.'

The Beacon was a call for help, yes but they way it was SkyBeamed into.. the sky... it looked more like a portal, along the lines of the DS9 wormhole, the TransWarp conduits, or even a doorway for Lovecraftian Old Ones. (and of COURSE the Synthetic Aliens were tentacled, why wouldn't they be, lol) So I don't necessarily think they just ignored it when it shut down, but rather they were unable to make it to this side of the doorway. At least that was my take on it.

As far as Riker being there, I fucking love Riker almost as much as Data and Picard, so any scenes with him in the show was gravy to me. Call me a soft hearted Trek fan, but I love me some Riker Badassery.

I dont know about Sutra and the Mind Meld. Maybe it's something that a Synth can emulate because they are computers? They're organic synths, so maybe they can also mimic different Psionic powers? Not real sure. But yeah, that was definitely a MacGuffin.

I thought the XBs mostly perished? And with the Romulans no longer after them, maybe they'll be ok? Not sure.

Lastly, the Golem. The god damn Golem. As soon as they showed that fucking thing I immediately knew how the season was going to end as far as the Picard character was concerned. Stupid. Absolutely pointless!

EDIT: I just thought of something, the whole Picard Golem thing was basically like that scene in Beerfest, where Landfill's twin brother comes back and says "Hey just call me Landfill? Itll be like Landfill never left!" LOLOL

I do like that they finally gave Spiner/Data a real send-off. Nemesis was awful, and his will he/wont he be dead thing with B4 and all that was garbage. But at least here, we have closure for one of the most beloved Trek characters in history. Data has finally met his end, and he got the death he always wanted.

But that fucking Golem. I wish they'd just made it a limited series and had Picard and Data die peacefully or something.

 

[SouthtownKid]

I actually ended up kind of liking it, and I thought the ending was much more Star Trek-y than what I was expecting, given the creative staff. I liked that they resolved everything through talk like in the old days rather than giant Revenge of the Sith chaos space battle, which has been Kurtzman's go to mode in Discovery or whatever. The Federation and Romulans didn't fire a single shot at each other. How nostalgic.

Like you, I called the Golem thing as soon as they first showed it, but yeah, what was the point? They copied his brain patterns. Okay cool, but that makes the new Picard a copy. Real Picard is still dead.

- The Romulans were so dedicated to wiping out synthetic life, to the point that they sacrificed their own rescue 15 years ago to turn the Federation against synths

This series really showed Romulans to be the true heroes of the universe. They were willing to let their own civilization be decimated in order to protect all other races in the galaxy. That's quite a babyface turn for the Romulans.

I dunno. I think the most unbelievable thing in this series is the idea it will take 400+ years to create synthetic life like Data and what we see here. With as close as we supposedly are to AI, I doubt it will take much more than 100 years. Meanwhile, I think we are much further off from FTL travel than the Star Trek timeline has it.

 

[gusmoney]

Picard is dead, long live Picard!

I enjoyed it when Picard kind of got his marbles back and took control of the ship. A weak Picard is not enjoyable.

 

[Snappy]

Yeah, it was ok. Could have done without the gore/shock scenes and the making 7 of 9 a lesbian crap they slipped in right at the end to earn their woke points from the degenerates.. or the blackish lady that is the token blasphemy/profanity generator.

Patrick Stewart is still a great actor. The blonde android doctor chick is unattractive and annoying.