Programmers

SudoShinji

Zero's Tailor
Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Posts
554
Years ago I got a cert in java but I could write a statement to save my life without Google these days. I work in IT but am thinking about moving to the programming side of things as a career change. Is java still a good job market? Is there a better option?
 

eek

Mature's Make-up Artist
15 Year Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Posts
1,373
Java is still pretty heavily used. If anyone does big data stuff, they usually use Hadoop and that's all written in Java.

For myself I've been trying to pivot from embedded C to web dev, learning Ruby on Rails.
 

bloodycelt

Chin's Bartender
Joined
Nov 6, 2015
Posts
1,568
Javascript/CSS for web development, back end languages change, but EVERY web site uses Javascript and CSS, and modern websites have a LOT of it. Ruby on Rails AND Java back ends have been moving more and more to JSON API Services on top of a database, and moving most of the logic to the front end.

And having a GOOD knowledge of Javascript can be hard since... its a weird language with a horrible debugger.

Though honestly if you wanted to switch over to programming, download Unity or Unreal Engine, both are free to play with, and learn that.

If you really want to get into web programming: This is the shit you have to deal with, there's a reason for the high burnout rate in the industry.

And this is how I usually feel after the daily standup:
 

mr_b

Windjammers Wonder
10 Year Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2009
Posts
1,379
I think about making the change back to the software side of things every year. My collegiate education was all programming but all of my professional work has been systems administration and consulting. The hot languages change faster than almost everything but the security side of IT.

I suffer the same quandary about what to try and focus on. You might be better off taking a few community college night programming classes just to get back into the swing of things before trying to apply. DB related stuff is always good.
 

SudoShinji

Zero's Tailor
Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Posts
554
I was given a ror program at my current job to get up and running having no prior experience or even knowing what a gemfile was recently. After updating all the out of date gemfiles the program broke and I had to really start digging in to fix it and after some time I've decided I don't care for Ruby. I've made a basic polygon style shooter in unity and I might go back and look at that again. Ideally I want something where I'm writing/debugging code and not dealing with web if that akes sense. I would love to do that with java or now that you have me thinking back to unity that as well.
 

SudoShinji

Zero's Tailor
Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Posts
554
I think about making the change back to the software side of things every year. My collegiate education was all programming but all of my professional work has been systems administration and consulting. The hot languages change faster than almost everything but the security side of IT.

I suffer the same quandary about what to try and focus on. You might be better off taking a few community college night programming classes just to get back into the swing of things before trying to apply. DB related stuff is always good.

That's what I do now, sys admin with a huge emphasis on pci compliance. I'm working towards another degree right now so I might throw some new language classes in the mix I'm just feeling stagnant. I do a lot of SQL reporting on a daily basis so that might be an option as well.
 

Gamefan

OldSkool4Life,
20 Year Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2001
Posts
3,728
That is what I do, IT Security. Have you thought about getting certifications within the Security portion of IT?
 

SudoShinji

Zero's Tailor
Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Posts
554
I've got security+ and I considered becoming a asv simce I have to do internal quarterly audits which I think is interesting but the field is dynamic and overwhelming at times.
 

madman

Blame madman, You Know You Want To.,
Joined
Jun 1, 2007
Posts
7,518
That is what I do, IT Security. Have you thought about getting certifications within the Security portion of IT?

Certifications are largely pointless, it's all about experience.
 

SudoShinji

Zero's Tailor
Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Posts
554
Oh wait I don't actually have security+, I took the course but never took the exam.
 

NeoSneth

Ned's Ninja Academy Dropout
20 Year Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2000
Posts
11,104
That is what I do, IT Security. Have you thought about getting certifications within the Security portion of IT?

which certs would someone take seriously? I do absolutely nothing with IT officially, but I sometimes grab certs to make my IT colleagues look bad (lazy)
 

mr_b

Windjammers Wonder
10 Year Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2009
Posts
1,379
In my experience. Certs are good when you are job hunting. They make your resume get nabbed by searches, but that's about it. Most people with certs, in my experience, don't know anything. Experience will always trump a cert once you get into the interview process. If you can explain past experience applying the knowledge you don't need a cert.
 

Dr Shroom

made it in japan
15 Year Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2005
Posts
23,254
Years ago I got a cert in java but I could write a statement to save my life without Google these days. I work in IT but am thinking about moving to the programming side of things as a career change. Is java still a good job market? Is there a better option?

Go back in time and invent minecraft.
 

bloodycelt

Chin's Bartender
Joined
Nov 6, 2015
Posts
1,568
TL;DR: You should give ruby another chance, but just for fun scripting and possibly a very simple personal website. (Rails is very good for quickly building prototype websites). But yeah go for Unity, more fun. If you know Java you can learn C# (Unity) or C++ (Unreal) they are very similar.

I was given a ror program at my current job to get up and running having no prior experience or even knowing what a gemfile was recently. After updating all the out of date gemfiles the program broke and I had to really start digging in to fix it and after some time I've decided I don't care for Ruby. I've made a basic polygon style shooter in unity and I might go back and look at that again. Ideally I want something where I'm writing/debugging code and not dealing with web if that akes sense. I would love to do that with java or now that you have me thinking back to unity that as well.

:( Thats a horrible way to be introduced to Ruby. I'd checkout tutorials on pure ruby. Rails is a decent framework, but too many people learn the basics of Rails, and never actually learn Ruby. And Rails before version 3.2 is a fucking clusterfuck.

Ruby will drive Java developers nuts, since it took its OOP from SmallTalk and Perl. However, one nice bit is unlike Java/C++ there are no primitives, even raw numbers are objects (of Class Fixnum).
• Every method (except a few like puts ) returns something, in fact a method or a block automatically returns the last value in its block.
• It supports closures (called blocks) which are amazing, (Javascript also uses closures, it calls them anonymous functions).
• Its Array/Enumerator objects have amazing list processing built-in.
• Very strong reflection, you can ask objects pretty much anything including where a method is defined, in my experience Ruby has some of the strongest built-in debugging tools.
• Singleton classes. This is similar to static methods in other languages, but different. Ruby uses something akin to Prototype in javascript, they call it a singleton class, so the class definition itself is an object.
• Metaprogramming, like Lisp, Scheme, and Smalltalk, you can dynamically define methods, this is how ActiveRecord just defines all your table getters/setters and what-not. Its why Rails has the best ORM.

On the other hand:
The Rails community in particular are a bunch of religious zealot fucks, its hard to get jobs because they firmly believe that what you code affects your brain, so if you coded in C or Perl or any other "impure" language, or don't drink the Test first for everything kool-aid you're fucked. (And even if you do... you get a 30% chance considering you must make the "right" choice between javascript frameworks.)

They're also mostly in their 20s.

But here's some cool code: https://gist.github.com/bloodycelt/8f0537bb69657d69352c in ruby.
 
Last edited:

Gamefan

OldSkool4Life,
20 Year Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2001
Posts
3,728
which certs would someone take seriously? I do absolutely nothing with IT officially, but I sometimes grab certs to make my IT colleagues look bad (lazy)

It all depends on the field you want to specialize in. I have over 12 years experience in IT security. In general, if you are looking at staying with systems administration, then an MCITP (Microsoft Certified IT Professional) would be a good start. Then you can move up to MCSE.
 

SudoShinji

Zero's Tailor
Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Posts
554
Thanks bloodycelt I'll have to give Ruby another shot at some point I guess. Do you know if unity is supported by steam? I've had an idea for an indie title for a long time and just never took the time to learn enough to make it happen but working towards something I care about seems like the best way to learn.
 

aha2940

AH, A, COLUMBIAN!,
Joined
Dec 15, 2013
Posts
2,528
It all depends on the field you want to specialize in. I have over 12 years experience in IT security. In general, if you are looking at staying with systems administration, then an MCITP (Microsoft Certified IT Professional) would be a good start. Then you can move up to MCSE.

Unless you do nto work with Microsoft stuff, in which case an RHSA then an RHCE would be another option.
 

bloodycelt

Chin's Bartender
Joined
Nov 6, 2015
Posts
1,568
Thanks bloodycelt I'll have to give Ruby another shot at some point I guess. Do you know if unity is supported by steam? I've had an idea for an indie title for a long time and just never took the time to learn enough to make it happen but working towards something I care about seems like the best way to learn.

Actually in terms of licensing both Unity and Unreal Engine will both compile to PC/Mac/Linux so yes it can go on the Steam Store. However, Unreal's licensing right now is more indie friendly IMHO. They just ask for a straight percentage cut. Unity you have to pay them a lump sum for each platform you want the game on. Unreal you also can get the source code so you could conceivably port your game with the engine to any platform.

OTOH Unity has a LOT better documentation and tutorials and a larger community. (Though I had some fun with the Twin-Stick shooter template that comes with Unreal :) )
 

Opethian

Basara's Blade Keeper
10 Year Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2009
Posts
3,669
I've always learned what I needed to do to get the job done

this year its python and powershell

YMMV
 

Cylotron

ヾ(⌐■_■)ノ♪
15 Year Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2004
Posts
3,711
Certifications are largely pointless, it's all about experience.

Funny you say that... if you are in the job market and going to interviews, you're regularly going to encounter one or the other. You'll either be asked "what cerifications do you have?" or "what experience do you have?". Sometimes even both. I've found that you'll be asked about certifications more often then not.
 

F4U57

General Morden's Aide
20 Year Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2004
Posts
7,632
Once you're in the game, Certs are valued.

Our networking guys are always studying for their next Cisco exam.
 

madman

Blame madman, You Know You Want To.,
Joined
Jun 1, 2007
Posts
7,518
Funny you say that... if you are in the job market and going to interviews, you're regularly going to encounter one or the other. You'll either be asked "what cerifications do you have?" or "what experience do you have?". Sometimes even both. I've found that you'll be asked about certifications more often then not.

When I interview candidates I never ask about certs, I barely even look at their resumes. I do very technical interviews to find out what they actually know. I've interviewed CISSPs that can't answer basic network security questions. I'm not saying the CISSP is useless, but I will take someone with experience who can answer questions about real life scenarios over someone who passed a test 3 years ago. That's just my personal style, not saying it's right or wrong, it's just what I prefer.
 

Cylotron

ヾ(⌐■_■)ノ♪
15 Year Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2004
Posts
3,711
That's cool. I remember the interview at my previous job(pc tech)... my soon-to-be boss sat there examining my resume. He didn't ask many questions. What he did do was dump a box of pc components all over the table. He then wanted me to tell him what each part was called and what it's used for.
 
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