Secret of Mana remake - the end of an era

[k'_127]

Uh shit I was skimming and didn't pay attention to the price / sarcasim part lol

 

[Taiso]

I thought I was the only one. Panda's got good taste

Lost Odyssey is the best Final Fantasy game since VI.

As for the pricing of this Mana remake, I suspect it has more to do with SE's inability to adapt to western market pricing schemes. Practically everything they sell is overpriced and this is largely because all of their electronic and virtual goods are overpriced in Japan.

I remember that when Atlus was releasing the Persona fighter, they actually region locked the game because they didn't want people importing chaper versions from overseas. While not SE, this kind of inflated pricing is fairly common in Japan for the electronic entertainment medium.

SE gouges in Japan so they are not adapting to the west. Other game companies have shifted their pricing strategies in recent years and we see that Japanese gaming is making something of a comeback. SE still makes so much money off its large IPs and FF XIV's monthly revenue windfalls so this is why they believe they can still get away with it.

As for the Tokyo RPG Factory games, I enjoyed both I Am Setsuna and Lost Sphear quite a bit, but I would definitely agree that they are by the number JRPG experiences. This isn't a bad thing, but new IPs generally don't have the aesthetic prowess to endure. We all played the 8 and 16 bit Final Fantasy games back in the day and that is why they still resonate with us. Newer gamers are less likely to embrace such a traditional game model and these throwback experiences are very unlikely to stand up next to the classics in the older gamer's eyes.

 

[k'_127]

This isn't a bad thing, but new IPs generally don't have the aesthetic prowess to endure. We all played the 8 and 16 bit Final Fantasy games back in the day and that is why they still resonate with us. Newer gamers are less likely to embrace such a traditional game model and these throwback experiences are very unlikely to stand up next to the classics in the older gamer's eyes.

I still think that's mainly brecause of the lack of new RPG's that are on par with the old ones. Bravely Default is a good example of a new RPG done right.

 

[LoneSage]

Illusion of Gaia VS Secret of Mana

who wins

I've played neither so I ask you all

Why are these two games connected so closely in my psyche though? is it anyone else

 

[NeoSneth]

Illusion of Gaia VS Secret of Mana

who wins

I've played neither so I ask you all

Why are these two games connected so closely in my psyche though? is it anyone else

Gaia is from the Soul Blazer line of games by Quintet

Mana is not.

I would probably pick Mana over Gaia, unless you really dig the story of Gaia.

 

[Taiso]

I still think that's mainly brecause of the lack of new RPG's that are on par with the old ones. Bravely Default is a good example of a new RPG done right.

It's good but even Bravely Default doesn't have the same traction with older fans as your statement indicates. It's still seen as a series of imitators, but they do some things right. Turning off encounters when you want to explore is a great step.

 

[Jon]

Gaia is from the Soul Blazer line of games by Quintet

Mana is not.

I would probably pick Mana over Gaia, unless you really dig the story of Gaia.

I would pick Terranigma over Illusion of Gaia any day of the week.

In terms of scope, story, etc., Terranigma may be better than Secret of Mana. There, I said it.

Illusion of Gaia vs. Secret of Mana isn't even a fair fight...

Jon

 

[Shito]

I thought Sword of Mana (GBA) was a decent renake if SeiDen1. :-)

Particulay for those who appreciate the Shannara rip-off, that is.

 

[opt2not]

I was able to find this used for cheap, so I figured I'd buy it.

Overall, I'm disappointed at this remake/remaster, but the more and more I play it the more it's growing on me.
It's not because it gets better as I go, it's mainly tied to the nostagia factor, but there are small things they changed from the original game that I like. Truthfully, if they created a redrawn version of the original sprites, I probably would have liked it more, because the 3D is absolutely atrocious.
One thing for certian, this new version kind of shows how broken the original combat design was. I feel it's accentuated because of the 3D.

I hate the music. The choices of instruments is bad, like they picked the most annoying chalkboard scratching instruments for most of the main melodies. Luckily they have an option to change it to the original soundtrack, which I swiftly did.

But I like what they did with the running mechanic. Now you can run for as long as you have stamina % -- it counts down from 100% till you let go of the run button and then it replenishes.
I also like the addition of assigning spells and items to R1 and L1 for quick access during gameplay. This helps elevate some of the pause in the action and gives you access to spells/items that you need to quickly select in a pinch.
Unfortunately assigning these shortcuts is persistent for all characters. It would have been nice to have each character have their own quick selections. Speaking of: switching characters with the D-pad is pretty nice. Better than using the select button style of the SNES where you cycle through the character selection the more you press the button. With this you can hit left for Popoi, and right for Primm.

The story scenes bug me a lot. The pacing is so off on the english dub, too much time between camera cuts and line delivery, and changing the audio to Japanese and reading subtitles is much better. But still a bit weird with the way they animated the camera movements, lots of slow zooms and pans for no real cinematic reasons, and they should have put some facial motion in there, like animated textures for mouth movements or something. Right now they talk with no expression on their faces. It's pretty dated looking, and kinda makes it awkward.

I'm happy the radial menu is still there, but I don't like the art for the icons, and the lack of background darkening while perusing the menu.
The original game had very distinctive iconography, it was easy to understand, and it was clear what you're looking for. It also darkened the background so you had clarity on what you were seeing. In the new game the menu sometimes gets lost because of the background:

The new game doesn't have the text on the icons, but at the bottom of the radial menu instead. It's probably to combat the localization issue, but then again, the original SoM didn't care about localization on the menu items. Ah the good ol' days.

All in all, I feel they made this remake a bit too literal of the original title. It's like they purposefully tried to follow all the constraints of the original game, when they really didn't need to. A bit more animations for the story stuff, more polish to the art ESPECIALLY add some better lighting (everything looks much too flat shaded, making the original look like it has more "depth" than this, and perhaps some simple physics on secondary animations -- cloth/hair, it's all canned right now... this would have gone a long way to making this more of a remaster.

 

[opt2not]

I'm still playing through this here and there. It's been growing on me TBH.

Another one of the major things they changed to the gameplay is the ability to "spell lock" an enemy with repeated magic attacks. After you fire off a spell, there is about a 3 second delay before you can cast another spell with that same character. This was apparent in the Pandora Ruins boss battle (Wall Face). In the original game, you could halt the Wall from traversing forward in the second part of the boss fight by repeatedly casting one of the Sprite's a low-level spells (Gnome magic: Slow/Tangle). But in this game, after the Wall Face has received your spell it has a few seconds to move forward, so you really got to be quick with the dps. I actually like this change because it adds a bit more difficulty to the game, and doesn't exploit the AI from not being able to react.

Also I've found I'm enjoying the Weapon and Spell Status screens. They made it easier to compare weapons and spells, see descriptions of their added effects/usage, and recognize levels.

Another thing is the little dialogue interactions between the 3 party members whenever you sleep at an Inn. Every time you stay at an Inn, before they head to bed they have a small moment of party interaction, contextually selected based on what has happened in the storyline thus far. It adds more character development and incites into their personalities, and it's nice to see some banter between all three of them. This is much better than the story sequences, they feel more natural and punchy, unlike the awkwardness of the story scenes.

One last thing I've found I'm liking is every line of dialogue has audio. Even down to the most obscure random NPC. They have voiced audio clips for EVERYTHING. This is really surprising for a game like this because there's a lot of dialogue. I just wished they put mouth animation, even in a form of texture swapping mouth shapes, to make it look like someone is talking. Even some jaw flapping would have sufficed.

Anyway, I'll keep playing this to the end. I finish this game once a year, so I'm pretty versed in all the steps to get to the ending. I'm really interested in how flying with Flammie is going to look...I'm not at the Lofty Mountains yet to get Flammie, but I will be there very soon.

 

[Gaston]

I did a review for a Dutch website and I still believe that the remake isnt half bad. Sure, it doesn't take ANY risks and some aspects have been remade into something worse (ring menu and audio most notably), combat is more difficult due to new ways to move your chars (enemy movement is enhanced as well) but all in all, the feel is still the same. Not as bad as many claim it to be.

 

[theMot]

You would have to be a dead set faggot to be playing a remake of Secret of Mana in 2018.

 

[Renmauzo]

All these months later, and the remake still looks like trash. Changing up from the perfect pixel art of the original is like saying, "You know what we need? Round wheels just aren't cutting it...they roll too smoothly...make 'em square, that'd be cool!".

...fuckin' Square 're-makes/masters'...every time I think about how they ruin one of their classics for the modern age, I think of that Futurama scene with the Slurm Queen taking about how to artificially boost sales.

 

[NeoSneth]

I did a review for a Dutch website and I still believe that the remake isnt half bad. Sure, it doesn't take ANY risks and some aspects have been remade into something worse (ring menu and audio most notably), combat is more difficult due to new ways to move your chars (enemy movement is enhanced as well) but all in all, the feel is still the same. Not as bad as many claim it to be.

You declare ways they made the game worse, and then claim it isn't half bad. Your review skills aren't half bad. They are whole bad.

SE still asked retail price for something that looks like a 10 year old WiiWare game. Plays like a 10 year old WiiWare game. And shits on quality nostalgic nintendo like a WiiWare game.

 

[Ip Man]

like i said before, if they added all the things that were left out of the original, i may of still given this game a try and over looked its flaws. but no. it's just a shitty remake.

 

[Gaston]

You declare ways they made the game worse, and then claim it isn't half bad. Your review skills aren't half bad. They are whole bad.

SE still asked retail price for something that looks like a 10 year old WiiWare game. Plays like a 10 year old WiiWare game. And shits on quality nostalgic nintendo like a WiiWare game.

Ok, so then wtf were you expecting? A next-gen SOM? If SE would have gone that route, you would start to cry about how this new game has got nothing to do with your beloved classic and how they are the devil for raping your memories.
You bitch and moan about a game that you probably haven't even played 10% of with what purpose? To show you're a hard-core retro purist?
Honestly, if you're so hung up about it then don't buy it - pretty simple. Fact is that I loved the 25 yo SNES game to death and I got a lot of the same vibe replaying this. Was it without faults? No. Was it to my taste? Not entirely. But those are PERSONAL preferences.
If somebody buys this for their kids and they play it for 50 hours and end up loving the hell out of it- than it's worth every penny for those kids. Who are you to judge on how people spend their money?
The fact that the graphics and audio have been redone don't automatically mean it's shit - it just doesn't live up to your crazy ass standards that only the retro gods know about.
Get off your fucking high horse and stop whining. Don't like it? Don't buy it.

 

[Gaston]

Illusion of Gaia VS Secret of Mana

who wins

I've played neither so I ask you all

Why are these two games connected so closely in my psyche though? is it anyone else

Mana.. Deeper mechanics, better story and overall the better game. Gaia is fun though.

 

[Kid Panda]

The proper way to do this remake, not that there should be one as it should have been a new game, was to build the game with HD 2D sprites. But alas it wasn't. Sometimes things just aren't meant to be. I would have been interested to see the game like a Guilty gear game or such. But's that is dreaming for sure.

 

[oliverclaude]

I would have been interested to see the game like a Guilty gear game or such.

There are very few examples of other 2D games with a native 480p resolution. The Ys III remake on the PS2 is one of them, you still have to force it into the progressive mode, though. Once you do, it looks gorgeous on appropriate monitors.

 

[NeoSneth]

Ok, so then wtf were you expecting? A next-gen SOM? If SE would have gone that route, you would start to cry about how this new game has got nothing to do with your beloved classic and how they are the devil for raping your memories.
You bitch and moan about a game that you probably haven't even played 10% of with what purpose? To show you're a hard-core retro purist?
Honestly, if you're so hung up about it then don't buy it - pretty simple. Fact is that I loved the 25 yo SNES game to death and I got a lot of the same vibe replaying this. Was it without faults? No. Was it to my taste? Not entirely. But those are PERSONAL preferences.
If somebody buys this for their kids and they play it for 50 hours and end up loving the hell out of it- than it's worth every penny for those kids. Who are you to judge on how people spend their money?
The fact that the graphics and audio have been redone don't automatically mean it's shit - it just doesn't live up to your crazy ass standards that only the retro gods know about.
Get off your fucking high horse and stop whining. Don't like it? Don't buy it.

This is easy...
1st have the original game on the disc. Unedited.
Then make the original playable with minor updates. Add Spell and weapon hotkeys. Toggle for updated music. Extra side quests. Extra bosses. Updated ally AI.

Then do an enhanced mode with 3D or HD sprites. Make the 3d models have more polygons than Mario64. It is not hard.

..and sure as shit don't charge $40 for an iOS/Android quality game.


Someone can spend 50 hours playing Sonic 06, that doesn't mean it's worthwhile or a good game.
I'm sure someone can have fun playing this remake, but it's poor quality across the board. That's the whole point of a critique.

 

[opt2not]

Glad I bumped this. I was beginning to think I was the only person who cares about this series.

I agree with NeoSneth with most of his points, except I wouldn't say it's poor quality across the board; there are a handful of things I do like about the remake, as noted above. But is it a bad game? Well the base of the game is still intact, so it's still decent. It's just that there aren't many reasons to play this game rather than the original.

 

[madmanjock]

The remake is now half price on PS4. At this price, would it be worth it for coach co-op with a buddy that enjoyed Diablo 3?

 

[opt2not]

If you have a way of playing the original from your couch, I’d recommrnd that.

 

[madmanjock]

If you have a way of playing the original from your couch, I’d recommrnd that.

I do, with the SNES mini. I'd be happy playing that, but my partner in crime would probably say the graphics are a all shitty and 2D. Meh, I'll give a go if the game is the same.