so.. uh... baltimore.

neo_mao

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And now that cost of living has risen in China along with the emergence of a middle-class, in the next few decades all the work will move (again) to southeast Asian countries like Vietnam and Bangladesh.

This is a very good point - but following that train of thought...doesn't that suggest that some of these jobs will eventually make their way back to the U.S., if we see that continued improvement in other countries? I actually think this could happen before things transition to some of these countries you mentioned....and maybe sooner than we think.

Now hear me out - there a couple of reasons why I feel this way. I think the rising wages overseas, coupled with a few other factors will eventually make it too costly to outsource.

1. The cost of oil. True, it's been low recently, but that was kept artificially low and could not be sustained for a long time. In fact, we've already seen some increases. So what does this mean for businesses in the US? It means that the cost of shipping is going to increase again. Now this has been an issue for a long time, but with the increasing wages abroad I think it is going to be felt more.

2. So with the increase in shipping costs, it makes sense for businesses to ship more at a time, right? If you are getting a candy cab from Japan, you are not going to order 1, you are going to order a full container. But the problem for most US businesses is that holding inventory costs money. So businesses have a dilemma...do they want to import more to get a better shipping rate and have higher inventory costs...or is more cost efficient to ship less, hold less inventory but then face the risk of not meeting consumer demand? Again, this has always been an issue...but I feel it will be more pronounced as the wages improve around the world.

3. And of course the last item is automation. I think we are getting to a point were some processes can become so automated with technology that it would simply be cheaper to have a machine do some work than outsourcing it. That's not good for the U.S. either, but even in those instances there will be some human component necessary (management, monitoring, QA, problem resolution, etc).

So anyway, I don't think we are going to see a huge increase in manufacturing jobs like we used to have in the US, but I do think some low skilled production jobs will come back. These may not be great jobs, but they will be better than working at McDonalds or BK. I know I am kind of talking in extremes here, but nonetheless I am somewhat optimistic about job creation in the U.S., which ultimately might help some communities like we're talking about.
 
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Karou

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... a big part of the problem is whatever propaganda (rap,''social'' code/ethics or whatever) it is that suggests to these people{* wtf do u mean ''these people''-nothing but have to refer somehow} that crapping themselves is cool and all they should aspire to do and others should just accept it?
 

Maury V.

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... a big part of the problem is whatever propaganda (rap,''social'' code/ethics or whatever) it is that suggests to these people{* wtf do u mean ''these people''-nothing but have to refer somehow} that crapping themselves is cool and all they should aspire to do and others should just accept it?

That mindset goes back to slavery days.

Slave masters have told us that we're nothing and if we tried to be better, they would kill us. They also put us against each other (i.e. slaves that wanted to read were called out by their own because 'masta said we couldn't read'). While we've made strides to get out of the slave mentality, we end up going back because it's either "easier" and/or outside influences put us back there (again, with the Tulsa Race Riots).

It's not something simple that can be undone after 460 some-odd years of oppression. It just isn't that simple. Sure we had opportunities but we have to fight harder than others to get something basic.
 

smokehouse

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That mindset goes back to slavery days.

Slave masters have told us that we're nothing and if we tried to be better, they would kill us. They also put us against each other (i.e. slaves that wanted to read were called out by their own because 'masta said we couldn't read'). While we've made strides to get out of the slave mentality, we end up going back because it's either "easier" and/or outside influences put us back there (again, with the Tulsa Race Riots).

It's not something simple that can be undone after 460 some-odd years of oppression. It just isn't that simple. Sure we had opportunities but we have to fight harder than others to get something basic.

I'm going to try to say this in the most civil way possible...and I 100% mean this without a shred of offense.

When again did your owner tell you he'd kill you?

I'd wager that there's not a single person alive that was a slave...they're all dead, all the slave owners are dead...it's over.

The last time my mother beat me with impunity while in a drunken rage was when I was 16 years old...21 years ago. She beat the living shit out of me while I turned my back so she wouldn't hit my face with the box of saran wrap she was using. She beat me until the box fell away and she proceeded to use the rock hard tube of plastic wrap until she decided I had enough.

It was the summer...I had to wear a shirt for weeks until the bruises went away.

Now...why am I saying this?

Because this happened to me, not my grandfather, not my great grandfather, not my great-great grandfather.

I'm now a father of a 6 year old. A little girl that at the moment, I am god to.

Do I beat her? Do I perform the exact same acts another human did to me when I was young? Do I hide behind my actions under the claim of "well, you just can't undo that kind of physical abuse...therefore I make the choice to perform horrible acts in the name of what was done to me."

No. I made the choice to be the one to change this chain. Not to abuse my child like I was abused, not to be a drunk, violent degenerate like my mother was. It starts with me and the decision I make every day.

How long until black America makes this decision? The people involved are already dead...another 100 years? 1000? How long until black America decides enough is enough, starts taking the blame for their own actions and begins to teach the new generation that enough is enough. Within a few generations, this could be over.

This is my point...they'll still be hiding behind it 10,000 years from now unless people decide to take control of their own life and make the right choice.

As long as people continue to breed, continue to milk the system and because of this are forced to live in crime ridden, low income areas where police brutality, violence, drugs and prostitution are a daily occurrence...this will never end. And it doesn't have shit to do with slavery.

The first part of my life was living in the Latino ghetto of Phoenix. High crime, violence, police brutality. The one smart thing my parents ever did was move us away from there, FAR from there. We lived tiny paycheck to tiny paycheck in and out of shitty houses before landing in some tiny town of 2200 people when I was 10...but they did it.

A woman that is mother of 6 living in the ghetto on public aid raising children spending their time on crime plagued streets while being brutalized by police that no longer give a fuck has nothing to do with slavery 100+ years ago. It has everything to do with a lazy man knocking up a lazy woman who is too shitty a person to parent her many children. Children who have no message of hope, no knowledge of respect or hard work, who become criminals like Mike Brown and end up dead, face first on the street with a bullet in his brain after some hot shot, pissed off cop got trigger happy.

This is a modern problem with modern issues and modern people. Slavery has shit to do with it. This problem is miles deep with many layers and issues. To blame it on one thing is far too easy a solution for a far more complicated problem.
 
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Marek

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Smokehouse missing the point again..

Anecdotes....

From the gut...

Everyone's lazy....

Pull yerself up by the bootstraps boy!!!

Smoke you've outdone yourself this time pal
 
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smokehouse

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Smokehouse missing the point again..

Anecdotes....

From the gut...

Everyone's lazy....

Pull yerself up by the bootstraps boy!!!

Smoke you've outdone yourself this time pal

...and thank you for completely and utterly denouncing my personal life experiences. Time and time again, you completely treat everything I have to say as 100% invalid although my stories are applicable.

...is it because the color of my skin?

What about being abused by drug dealing, drug using parents, being on my own at 17, choosing to live a different life and working my way out of poverty isn't good enough?

If I were a minority would it be valid?

I've done what I preach...I've put my $$ where my mouth is an give examples of how I did it. How again is this invalid?

In the end...I'm sick of being surrounded by victims. Everyone is a victim now...everyone has an excuse for using drugs, being a horrible parent, being lazy, refusing to work, committing crimes...no one will take responsibility for their own actions.

When I say this I get the "well, you just don't understand."

Yes...I'm pretty fucking sure I understand. I understand the universal truth that only you can control you and ONLY you. Not someone else, not the government...only yourself. You make your own decisions in this life.

...or you can go on blaming your own actions on everyone else...which people love to do these days.

This is the only way this shit works...no sweeping reform from some magical outside source will come and fix these problems. The sort or reform happens house by house, family by family. Individuals making choices to live life differently and turns things around. It takes generations to reform this. So many people are looking for some magic government reform or law to save them from themselves.

I tell my "Anecdotes", as you like to describe it in an insulting manner, because this is how this shit really works. One person making different choices. Burning down stores, and banners, and slogans and t-shirts don't fucking cut it. Individuals making choices, like I did, is what gets shit done. I bring it up, give examples of the things that happened to me in my life and you constantly insult me, my life, my own personal suffering and my own hard decisions over and over again. Thanks for that...thanks for shitting on my accomplishments despite coming from the world that I did.

If I were a black many talking about my rise from the ghetto, I'm sure you'd hurt those hands of yours clapping for me and my efforts.

Ignorance/stupidity is indeed a lovely thing, isn't it?
 
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lastcallhall

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...and thank you for completely and utterly denouncing my personal life experiences. Time and time again, you completely treat everything I have to say as 100% invalid although my stories are applicable.

...is it because the color of my skin?

What about being abused by drug dealing, drug using parents, being on my own at 17, choosing to live a different life and working my way out of poverty isn't good enough?

If I were a minority would it be valid?

I've done what I preach...I've put my $$ where my mouth is an give examples of how I did it. How again is this invalid?

In the end...I'm sick of being surrounded by victims. Everyone is a victim now...everyone has an excuse for using drugs, being a horrible parent, being lazy, refusing to work, committing crimes...no one will take responsibility for their own actions.

When I say this I get the "well, you just don't understand."

Yes...I'm pretty fucking sure I understand. I understand the universal truth that only you can control you and ONLY you. Not someone else, not the government...only yourself. You make your own decisions in this life.

...or you can go on blaming your own actions on everyone else...which people love to do these days.

I gotta say, even though everyone is giving you shit, you've made the most sense in this entire thread over everyone else who wants to look for an excuse to justify criminal behavior. When did this country develop such a victim mindset? I swear to god, I hear all kinds of excuses from both friends and strangers that are out of work, and not a single one of them blames themselves in any way shape or form. They'll sure as shit collect unemployment though, and laugh about how easy it is to dodge the pathetically low requirements for maintaining unemployment. Meanwhile my wife and I are both working full time, going to school full time, and trying to raise a son all while trying to make ends meet. We own up to it, though, and keep telling ourselves that it has to get better, if only for the sake of our son.

Anyway... Keep it up Smoke. :)
 

Marek

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If you were black you'd still be an asshole who doesnt fuckin get it. Youd be even worse really.

I can just picture the black smokehouse railing about white privilege being a farce. Lol.
 

Marek

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Smoke everyone knows how you were raised because you've documented your upbringing as well as your current relationship with your parents extensively on this forum.

We get it dude. You had an upbringing more similar to a poor black persons than most people here, certainly more so than mine.

You still didn't have to deal with having your skin color be means for a stop and frisk, or an unwarranted traffic stop. Etc. You don't understand why any of this is happening because you're too busy going all bill Cosby on the black community.
 

neo_mao

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I'm going to try to say this in the most civil way possible...and I 100% mean this without a shred of offense.

When again did your owner tell you he'd kill you?

I'd wager that there's not a single person alive that was a slave...they're all dead, all the slave owners are dead...it's over.

The last time my mother beat me with impunity while in a drunken rage was when I was 16 years old...21 years ago. She beat the living shit out of me while I turned my back so she wouldn't hit my face with the box of saran wrap she was using. She beat me until the box fell away and she proceeded to use the rock hard tube of plastic wrap until she decided I had enough.

It was the summer...I had to wear a shirt for weeks until the bruises went away.

Now...why am I saying this?

Because this happened to me, not my grandfather, not my great grandfather, not my great-great grandfather.

I'm now a father of a 6 year old. A little girl that at the moment, I am god to.

Do I beat her? Do I perform the exact same acts another human did to me when I was young? Do I hide behind my actions under the claim of "well, you just can't undo that kind of physical abuse...therefore I make the choice to perform horrible acts in the name of what was done to me."

No. I made the choice to be the one to change this chain. Not to abuse my child like I was abused, not to be a drunk, violent degenerate like my mother was. It starts with me and the decision I make every day.

How long until black America makes this decision? The people involved are already dead...another 100 years? 1000? How long until black America decides enough is enough, starts taking the blame for their own actions and begins to teach the new generation that enough is enough. Within a few generations, this could be over.

This is my point...they'll still be hiding behind it 10,000 years from now unless people decide to take control of their own life and make the right choice.

As long as people continue to breed, continue to milk the system and because of this are forced to live in crime ridden, low income areas where police brutality, violence, drugs and prostitution are a daily occurrence...this will never end. And it doesn't have shit to do with slavery.

The first part of my life was living in the Latino ghetto of Phoenix. High crime, violence, police brutality. The one smart thing my parents ever did was move us away from there, FAR from there. We lived tiny paycheck to tiny paycheck in and out of shitty houses before landing in some tiny town of 2200 people when I was 10...but they did it.

A woman that is mother of 6 living in the ghetto on public aid raising children spending their time on crime plagued streets while being brutalized by police that no longer give a fuck has nothing to do with slavery 100+ years ago. It has everything to do with a lazy man knocking up a lazy woman who is too shitty a person to parent her many children. Children who have no message of hope, no knowledge of respect or hard work, who become criminals like Mike Brown and end up dead, face first on the street with a bullet in his brain after some hot shot, pissed off cop got trigger happy.

This is a modern problem with modern issues and modern people. Slavery has shit to do with it. This problem is miles deep with many layers and issues. To blame it on one thing is far too easy a solution for a far more complicated problem.

You're a good dude, honest and forthright and I appreciate that - but this is a terrible terrible post for many reasons...

I'm not sure where to begin...so I'll just keep it brief and say that while slavery as an institution may be dead (which is in fact debatable IMO), the hatred, bigotry and intolerance created by it is definitely still around and will be for generations...and it manifests itself in many (sometimes subtle and sometimes not so subtle) ways, including excessive and unnecessary police force/brutality that lead to questionable deaths of several black people.

Your parents sound like terrible people. And maybe some of these black men who've been killed by police recently are also terrible people. But at least from the information we've been provided it appears that none of them should have/needed to be killed by cops - but if your folks were black there is a greater likelihood that would be the case.

If you don't know why that causes frustration/anger in black communities then I don't know what else to tell you man.
 

100proof

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Ooooh he got you there!

Thousands and thousands of miles...

I've said all I have to say on the matter.

Don't care if Wasabi grew up and/or lives in B-more.

Carry on winning internet points and fighting the good fight. Make Baltimore better one shitpost at a time.
 

Marek

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I've said all I have to say on the matter.

Don't care if Wasabi grew up and/or lives in B-more.

Carry on winning internet points and fighting the good fight. Make Baltimore better one shitpost at a time.

1/14 noob, we have no internet points here. We only have sonning and getting sonned.

Your first sonning was beautiful. Its like you just had your first period.
 

norton9478

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Smokehouse, correct me If I am wrong but didn't you have grandparents who were a stabilizing, positive influence/role models? Did you, or did you not spend a considerable part of your life with them?

I' I have trouble understanding (please correct me if I'm wrong) why you feel rioting is an understandable reaction to this? I don't agree with what happened in Baltimore. But is it wrong for me to think that violence isn't an acceptable rhetoric because I am not in their situation?

Violence against property isn't as bad as people would like you to believe.

It is essentially enhanced civil disobedience.
 
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Opethian

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Smokehouse, correct me If I am wrong but didn't you have grandparents who were a stabilizing, positive influence/role models? Did you, or did you not spend a considerable part of your life with them?



Violence against property isn't as bad as people would like you to believe.

It is essentially enhanced civil disobedience.

just like theft is just asset relocation right?
 

smokehouse

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Smokehouse, correct me If I am wrong but didn't you have grandparents who were a stabilizing, positive influence/role models? Did you, or did you not spend a considerable part of your life with them?



Violence against property isn't as bad as people would like you to believe.

It is essentially enhanced civil disobedience.

No, my grandparents, on both sides, had given up on my parents well before I was even born.

I met a kid in 1991, someone I'm friends with to this day. I was 14 at the time and definitely not on a good path. His parents took me under their wing, taught me the value of hard work, taught me respect, most importantly, they told me I wasn't a piece of shit. They would feed me when my parents didn't have dinner on the table that night, or let me sleep at their house when my parents were on a "freebase-coke-foils weekend excursion". When the power was off, they'd let me get ready for school in the morning...I can go on and on...

I honestly give them credit for saving me. I'm not talking a life or death type of thing...I more so mean "good vs bad person" type of thing. They also took me in when I was 18 and had nowhere to go, helped me get on my feet at that time.

They showed me the influence someone can have on a child. You can take a white trash kid, who was abused and broken, and turn them around when they need it most.
 
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