The Michael Vick Poll, NG.com style

Should Michael Vick have been reinstated to the NFL?


  • Total voters
    55

RocketLawnChair

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What if Charlie Manson or the Unabomber just decided that they had "changed" and were released from prison (Manson is up for parole in 2012)?
Well, at least Manson's hilarious. (proof here) Vick confessed to some pretty fucked up crimes, but Manson never actually killed anyone.
 

ResO

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nevermind, drunk anti-Michael Vick rant.
 
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lithy

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Shouldn't be against the law in the first place, his time, his property, the government is more pissed about the "running an illegal gambling operation" part and them missing tax revenue than they are about the "dog killing" part. The prosecution just nicely played into the public making them think dead dogs are a bad thing.
 

SonGohan

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Shouldn't be against the law in the first place, his time, his property, the government is more pissed about the "running an illegal gambling operation" part and them missing tax revenue than they are about the "dog killing" part. The prosecution just nicely played into the public making them think dead dogs are a bad thing.

lol, are you serious?

Anyway, the guy did his time, but it doesn't mean he should still be able to hold his previous job. I consider it a privilege to play in the NFL. Still, somebody told me that there's some guy in the NFL who killed somebody because he was drinking and driving, and got caught for a second DUI after his probation, and he's still playing in the NFL. By those standards, Vick shouldn't be kept out, either. I don't think either of them should be playing, though.

Then you have that jackass that shot himself in the club. Man, are football players stupid or what
 

evil wasabi

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Shouldn't be against the law in the first place, his time, his property, the government is more pissed about the "running an illegal gambling operation" part and them missing tax revenue than they are about the "dog killing" part. The prosecution just nicely played into the public making them think dead dogs are a bad thing.

It's starting to look like The Stranger, by Albert Camus. The the jury (society) focuses on the non-crime at the direction of the prosecutor (media), while ignoring what the government actually had at stake.

As I have become virtually omnivorous, I can only imagine that by my desire for more than a foreversublime vegan diet has led to the electrocution, beheading and curb stomping of more animals than you'd find in a Michael Vick wet dream. I don't care if he killed dogs. Dogs are stupid creatures, and until I meet a dog that will habitually shit in a toilet and flush it, and refuse to shit in public, my opinion shall not be assuaged.

When you live in a country that's hot as hell and dogs are shitting in the sidewalks and streets, the desire for a .22 and a few impromptu watermelon silencers grows unbearable. Filthy creatures with stupid faces: A man's love for a dog is steeped in familiarity and endearment.
 

Taiso

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I don't think Vick should be allowed back. Goodell should make an example out of him! It's just like Pete Rose. Yea, he was the greatest hitter in baseball, but he fucked up big time, and now he has to pay but not getting into the Hall of Fame. I'm not saying gambling is like killing dogs, but the same principle applies. You do the crime, you do the time...

Vick committed the crime and he did the time. What else do you want from the guy?

I may be biased because I have a two year old Siberian Husky that I would do anything for an love as much as the next pet owner does their pet, but still...

I own a 13 year old Shitzu. Not a 'real' dog, but he's still a loving animal and a loyal member of my family. I also own a turtle and a guinea pig. Given American society and culture and the value we place on pets, what Vick did is all the more vile as it regards US social standards.

But he did the crime and he paid the price. Whether he actually feels contrite about his actions is irrelevant. He did what American law and society demanded of him. That is all jail does in the end. It punishes him for the act. It isn't social conditioning in there, as much as we want it to be. It isn't fucking Clockwork Orange in there, nor should it be.

That he paid his debt to society is all that matters to me. And I'm a Bears fan. I could give fuckall about Michael Vick the football player. So I'm not defending him as a fan by any stretch.

Vick made millions of dollars a year to play football. Was that not enough money for him to be entertained in his spare time that he couldn't do anything else but resort to dog fighting?

All the money in the world doesn't always unfuck someone mentally. In many cases, it makes it worse by enabling it. People that make that kind of money live in a different world, where they feel that they now have the power to do things they couldn't before the payday. So asking Vick to 'find something else to do' isn't addressing the problem at hand in a realistic fashion.

I hate to sound like an angry parent, but think about all the kids that looked up to him? Hell, my 11 year old nephew still has his Vick jersey in his closet. He used to wear it all the time, but now my sister refuses to let him wear it. Letting him play again is like telling a kid that it's ok to murder their pet as long as you're sorry and do something to make up for it.

Well...yeah. That's the point of the legal system.

You commit a wrongdoing.

You get caught.

You get punished.

You apologize for comitting the crime.

You make up for the crime you committed.

Why don't we just fucking brand Vick while we're at it? Just put a 'dog killer' brand on his forehead, like they did to that Pig Killer guy in Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome? That way, no one will ever forget what he did. That way, the convicted criminal will never get the opportunity to move on with his life after comitting the crime and paying for it.

I know Tony Dungy has been saying that Vick is concentrating on "bettering his life", but he's not even a month out of prison, and he's already practicing with the Eagles? Vick says he's sorry, and realizes he made a mistake, but I don't buy it. Is he really sorry? Is he really trying to change his life in a positive manner or is he just in a hurry to play in the NFL again so he can get back in the spotlight and make millions to pay off his fines?

Maybe he isn't sorry.

Maybe it doesn't matter.

Society, the society Americans live in, judged Vick according to its own standards. All that money and all that fame didn't get him out of doing time or taking a hit to his career or causing him a lifetime of grief and embarassment for his actions.

Even though he paid for his crime, he's never going to completely live it down. Nothing will ever be the same as it was for him before he got caught. I'd say he's paid MORE than a less famous person would have paid in his shoes.

As for the kids and what they feel of guys like Vick and how they idolize him, that is all just bullshit I blame the parents for.

This is a true story.

A guy I know used to work at the United Center in the 90s during the Jordan era and he used to think the world of Michael Jordan. And in fairness, Jordan had a very positive public persona back in those days. My friend is a fly on the wall for this event.

A father rolls up on Michael Jordan with his wheelchair bound kid and says 'Michael, can you autograph something for my kid?'

Michael says 'Sorry, I haven't got the time.'

Five minutes later, he sees Jordan laughing it up with a couple of the other Bulls' players and they're talking about hanging out and playing cards all night.

Granted, Michael could have thought it was a scam and was simply protecting himself, or maybe he had some personal politics about the situation we don't know about. But again, to use common US societal standards as the barometer of such acts, what Jordan did in refusing to do the autograph and then laughing it up with teammates five minutes later is telling about the real man in some way.

Really, Michael Jordan? Does one autograph for a person you're likely to never see again, even if they WERE just trying to get a John Hancock from you, really upset the balance of the universe so much? Isn't it worth taking the small risk that someone might make a couple hundred bucks off the ten seconds it would take to write your name on something for the possibility of giving a bit of brightness to a child who will never be able to dribble a basketball or slam dunk or, for fuck's sake, even hold a video game controller so that he can PRETEND to do these things?

What's the point of this story?

The point is that no matter how much a professional athlete pretends to be the fucking second coming, they are probably just assholes like everyone else. As a parent, it's your responsibility to make sure your kids don't buy into all that bullshit and believe that what they see on TV is real.

The kids that idolized Vick...that's not Vick's fault and it's not his problem. The parents are to blame for being too stupid to sit their kids down and say 'it's okay to like a person for their skill with a football, but there are probably better people to choose to be your heroes.'

Growing up, my hero was Captain America. He wasn't real, but his values and beliefs were very noble ones for a child to aspire to. I'd rather my kids idolized people that didn't exist who embodied noble ideals, and saw people like Michael Vick for the talented but flawed people that they really are, and not buy into the marketing of a real person as someone whose shit doesn't stink when the parents should know, all too well, it probably stinks just as bad or worse than anyone else's.
 

jro

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I should have said "poodle fucker" in the second poll option.
 

evil wasabi

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You raise a good point in that no one here can possibly relate to Michael Vick, much less any all pro athlete, and vice versa. These people have almost nothing in common with us. How many members here are over 6"3 with $5 million cash in their pocket, living in a huge mansion, televised into hundreds of thousands of homes every weekend for 16 weeks or more? And black? When you have that much money you can practically create your own reality. Most people will never understand Vick, but damned if they ever stop condemning him.



Vick committed the crime and he did the time. What else do you want from the guy?



I own a 13 year old Shitzu. Not a 'real' dog, but he's still a loving animal and a loyal member of my family. I also own a turtle and a guinea pig. Given American society and culture and the value we place on pets, what Vick did is all the more vile as it regards US social standards.

But he did the crime and he paid the price. Whether he actually feels contrite about his actions is irrelevant. He did what American law and society demanded of him. That is all jail does in the end. It punishes him for the act. It isn't social conditioning in there, as much as we want it to be. It isn't fucking Clockwork Orange in there, nor should it be.

That he paid his debt to society is all that matters to me. And I'm a Bears fan. I could give fuckall about Michael Vick the football player. So I'm not defending him as a fan by any stretch.



All the money in the world doesn't always unfuck someone mentally. In many cases, it makes it worse by enabling it. People that make that kind of money live in a different world, where they feel that they now have the power to do things they couldn't before the payday. So asking Vick to 'find something else to do' isn't addressing the problem at hand in a realistic fashion.



Well...yeah. That's the point of the legal system.

You commit a wrongdoing.

You get caught.

You get punished.

You apologize for comitting the crime.

You make up for the crime you committed.

Why don't we just fucking brand Vick while we're at it? Just put a 'dog killer' brand on his forehead, like they did to that Pig Killer guy in Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome? That way, no one will ever forget what he did. That way, the convicted criminal will never get the opportunity to move on with his life after comitting the crime and paying for it.



Maybe he isn't sorry.

Maybe it doesn't matter.

Society, the society Americans live in, judged Vick according to its own standards. All that money and all that fame didn't get him out of doing time or taking a hit to his career or causing him a lifetime of grief and embarassment for his actions.

Even though he paid for his crime, he's never going to completely live it down. Nothing will ever be the same as it was for him before he got caught. I'd say he's paid MORE than a less famous person would have paid in his shoes.

As for the kids and what they feel of guys like Vick and how they idolize him, that is all just bullshit I blame the parents for.

This is a true story.

A guy I know used to work at the United Center in the 90s during the Jordan era and he used to think the world of Michael Jordan. And in fairness, Jordan had a very positive public persona back in those days. My friend is a fly on the wall for this event.

A father rolls up on Michael Jordan with his wheelchair bound kid and says 'Michael, can you autograph something for my kid?'

Michael says 'Sorry, I haven't got the time.'

Five minutes later, he sees Jordan laughing it up with a couple of the other Bulls' players and they're talking about hanging out and playing cards all night.

Granted, Michael could have thought it was a scam and was simply protecting himself, or maybe he had some personal politics about the situation we don't know about. But again, to use common US societal standards as the barometer of such acts, what Jordan did in refusing to do the autograph and then laughing it up with teammates five minutes later is telling about the real man in some way.

Really, Michael Jordan? Does one autograph for a person you're likely to never see again, even if they WERE just trying to get a John Hancock from you, really upset the balance of the universe so much? Isn't it worth taking the small risk that someone might make a couple hundred bucks off the ten seconds it would take to write your name on something for the possibility of giving a bit of brightness to a child who will never be able to dribble a basketball or slam dunk or, for fuck's sake, even hold a video game controller so that he can PRETEND to do these things?

What's the point of this story?

The point is that no matter how much a professional athlete pretends to be the fucking second coming, they are probably just assholes like everyone else. As a parent, it's your responsibility to make sure your kids don't buy into all that bullshit and believe that what they see on TV is real.

The kids that idolized Vick...that's not Vick's fault and it's not his problem. The parents are to blame for being too stupid to sit their kids down and say 'it's okay to like a person for their skill with a football, but there are probably better people to choose to be your heroes.'

Growing up, my hero was Captain America. He wasn't real, but his values and beliefs were very noble ones for a child to aspire to. I'd rather my kids idolized people that didn't exist who embodied noble ideals, and saw people like Michael Vick for the talented but flawed people that they really are, and not buy into the marketing of a real person as someone whose shit doesn't stink when the parents should know, all too well, it probably stinks just as bad or worse than anyone else's.
 

Taiso

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You raise a good point in that no one here can possibly relate to Michael Vick, much less any all pro athlete, and vice versa. These people have almost nothing in common with us. How many members here are over 6"3 with $5 million cash in their pocket, living in a huge mansion, televised into hundreds of thousands of homes every weekend for 16 weeks or more? And black? When you have that much money you can practically create your own reality. Most people will never understand Vick, but damned if they ever stop condemning him.

Well, in fairness:

I don't have to understand Michael Vick or even begin to comprehend what kind of world he lives in. I only brought it up to point out that giving a broken man a lot of money is more likely to enable him to continue fucking up than anything else. He'll just try to find ways to do it quietly, without getting noticed. And for Vick, that worked for a while.

That is just as irrelevant as whether or not he is truly a changed man after the experience of incarceration or if he's just saying what he thinks the public wants to hear and secretly can't wait to start murdering dogs again.

He broke laws in the USA, the country he lives in and works in.

Laws he knew he was breaking. If he didn't know it was illegal, everyone would have known about it long before it got to the point it did.

The people that arbitrate the crime and punishment system got him and busted him for breaking those laws.

And they punished him.

And he took the punishment.

The matter is settled in my eyes. If he can get another job in the NFL, good for him. He's got every right to sell his skills to whoever wants to pay for them.

But as for what his perspective he has or whether I relate to him or not....it doesn't change the fact that he broke laws he knew he was breaking.

Fuck him for breaking them. He deserved every bit of the punishment he got.

But that's over now. The society I live in judged him and punished him. I'm done considering it past that point.
 

evil wasabi

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Come on, Biggie. Probably less than 10 black members active here, give or take depending on if you count aegreatone, japhei, and gregn as black.

And besides, I'm certain you didn't get so tall eating a lot of vegetables. Your dietary needs probably sent plenty of animals through the chop block. Go ahead and tell me I'm wrong and you never eat meats, fish, and poultry.

Michael Vick gave those animals the honorable Viking death that most of America has denied to the animal kingdom. Zoos have taken the fangs out of lions, tigers, gorillas, that would normally risk their lives in battle and toe the line of life and death as routine; they no longer hunt and kill but sit and get fed, and die miserable. Circus managers whip tigers in front of an audience, and the tigers just sit there like mid aged men watching sunday football, instead of clawing the managers face off.

Michael Vick was Prometheus for those animals. He brought the fire back to them. God bless him.
 

jro

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I also think it was pretty obvious that those dogs enjoyed the fighting. I mean, c'mon, being a dog would get fucking boring otherwise.
 

Zero Satori

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BUCK vs SPITZ :buttrock:

Viewing it metaphorically (for humans) or literally, the modern ideal of making everyone (including pets) into a bunch of beings unwilling to understand their primal desires to kill those they consider threats is not exactly a recipe for maintaining a society with strength.
 

jro

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What if you substitute something out for dogs? Like, I dunno, retards or something? Put them in medieval armor, you know, give them swords.
 

ForeverSublime

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Michael Vick gave those animals the honorable Viking death that most of America has denied to the animal kingdom.

No way. Perhaps he should have fought hand to fang. No pools of water. No electrodes. No weapons.

Dishonorable.
 

abasuto

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I think what he did was fucked up,but as so many stated, he's done his time, he should have another chance.

Dog fighting is cultural. To me it's fucked up because I view dogs as a species meant to be pets, however, in many countries they're lunch. Hundreds of millions of Hindus spazz over the idea of harming a cow, how many Americans share this feeling ?

Also, I have nothing against cock-fighting. Alot of people get all emotional over the thought of it, but I could care less what happens to chickens. To me, they're lunch.

Cock-fighting in a thread where I just voted for jro being sexy is mildly gay, at the least.
 
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BigTinz

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Come on, Biggie. Probably less than 10 black members active here, give or take depending on if you count aegreatone, japhei, and gregn as black.

And besides, I'm certain you didn't get so tall eating a lot of vegetables. Your dietary needs probably sent plenty of animals through the chop block. Go ahead and tell me I'm wrong and you never eat meats, fish, and poultry.

Michael Vick gave those animals the honorable Viking death that most of America has denied to the animal kingdom. Zoos have taken the fangs out of lions, tigers, gorillas, that would normally risk their lives in battle and toe the line of life and death as routine; they no longer hunt and kill but sit and get fed, and die miserable. Circus managers whip tigers in front of an audience, and the tigers just sit there like mid aged men watching sunday football, instead of clawing the managers face off.

Michael Vick was Prometheus for those animals. He brought the fire back to them. God bless him.

I've never eaten dog....I can tell you that.



WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? He shot the dogs to death because they didn't perform.


You sire are an either an ace troll or a psycho.
 

Syn

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He served his time let him play!

God/Karma has yet to play it's hand:loco:

But, as always, good things happen to bad people...a lot.
 

Nesagwa

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I think what he did was fucked up,but as so many stated, he's done his time, he should have another chance.

Dog fighting is cultural. To me it's fucked up because I view dogs as a species meant to be pets, however, in many countries they're lunch. Hundreds of millions of Hindus spazz over the idea of harming a cow, how many Americans share this feeling ?

Also, I have nothing against cock-fighting. Alot of people get all emotional over the thought of it, but I could care less what happens to chickens. To me, they're lunch.

Cock-fighting in a thread where I just voted for jro being sexy is mildly gay, at the least.

That would be a good argument, if you know, he were from another country where this kind of thing were acceptable. But he isn't.

Anyway, he was convicted of a felony right? In a normal job you don't get welcomed back with a million dollar paycheck for going to federal prison.
 

lithy

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Anyway, he was convicted of a felony right? In a normal job you don't get welcomed back with a million dollar paycheck for going to federal prison.

Most felons can't play NFL football.
 

Syn

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Anyway, he was convicted of a felony right? In a normal job you don't get welcomed back with a million dollar paycheck for going to federal prison.

Most normal people can't play in the NFL. He has qualities you and I don't have (assuming you don't) so if someone is willing to pay that salary...that's the American way.
 

Nesagwa

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Most normal people can't play in the NFL. He has qualities you and I don't have (assuming you don't) so if someone is willing to pay that salary...that's the American way.

Yes.... but why the fuck are we putting someone that runs on a field and carries a ball on some moral and legal gray area while people that actually do USEFUL shit would have a hard time ever getting a job after this kind of sentencing.

How many assholes are playing in any given league right fucking now with a recent DUI on their records? That shit doesn't fly in the real world.
 

Syn

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People stopped buying cars, things changed. Salaries went down, management shake ups, etc.

People stop watching and going to NFL games, things will change. Salaries will go down (look at the NHL), morality may become more than just a word, CONVICTED killers of PEOPLE may not be allowed to play. That's a pipe dream and that sucks!
 
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