The NEW Market FAQ is coming....

[wyo]

Oh... I know deals are done in the background... via PM...

And if you guys choose to deal that way... FINE.... I don't mind it...

However, I choose to specify the Paypal fees need to be added to a sales thread because I have always felt that the Paypal Gift stuff can lead to situ's I don't like...

I also appreciate that if a GOOD seller sends an item and someone claims against that transaction for any reason... then at least you have a chance to fight your corner...

UNLIKE paypal gift....

xROTx

Ultimately, it's your decision to make and I understand the reasoning behind it. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Rot]

Great job Rot! Simple and concise.

Would you consider adding Rule 6.5 in the original thread?

"6.5. No user may have more than one current thread in each of the three sales-related Market forums (SNK Selling, SNK Wanted, Everything Else). If a user has multiple items for sale (or that they want to buy or trade), they should list them all in one thread."

That's a pretty good point actually Kit... I forgot about that...

Man... if only I thought like a Lawyer

I'll add it and word it so the members like GregN can understand it... aka.... Simple as fuck...

xROTx

 

[Syn]

Should the one sales thread go in everything else or go where the majority of the sales items pertain to?

Example, I have one mvs cart and 10 other games. I wouldn't put it in Neo selling because of only 1 Neo item, it would go in everything else or zelda (if the other 10 were arcade boards ).

 

[Rot]

Should the one sales thread go in everything else or go where the majority of the sales items pertain to?

Example, I have one mvs cart and 10 other games. I wouldn't put it in Neo selling because of only 1 Neo item, it would go in everything else or zelda (if the other 10 were arcade boards ).

I should word that rule better I suppose.... You are allowed one thread in each selling section.

xROTx

PS. Resolved:

d) You are allowed ONE selling thread in the individual Market forums. Multiple sales threads for the same sort of stuff will be merged/deleted.

 

[evil wasabi]

Thank you Rot.

 

[Syn]

I should word that rule better I suppose.... You are allowed one thread in each selling section.

xROTx

It's worded alright I'm just super condensing Why have a thread for all Neo selling, everything else selling and zelda selling was my thought. One super thread seems better to me as a seller.

I'm not saying condense all three forums btw. That'd be chaos.

Just saw your edit!

Thanks for doing this Rot.

 

[Rot]

I have been informed that some of our memberbase LIKE accepting paypal gifts...

Apparently my balls have been broken in chat concerning Mrjrjrjrjrjrjr's fan club....

I'll state now... I am NOT reversing my decision concerning the Paypal Gift (Paypal Family and Friends) rule....

If you want to pay anyone via paypal gift... you can negotiate it via PM or whatever... but expect NO mod backing if it goes to shit...

xROTx

 

[supergoose]

I may add the line:

"NO PAYPAL GIFTS. ITEM and SHIPPING PRICES SHOULD REFLECT THE INCLUSION OF PAYPAL FEES."

This should only be a requirement for those who accept PayPal only.

Imo it would be a good idea to include this part of the old FAQ:

2.4.2. Any user who commits a scam on this website forfeits all privacy rights to their name, address and any other discoverable personal information until the situation has been acceptably rectified. Any such information can be posted on the forums, resulting in public availability on web search engines (e.g. Google).

You know how the forums work. No one should be able to claim that they haven't been warned.

 

[Rot]

This should only be a requirement for those who accept PayPal only.

It is a requirement for all sales threads now and should be included....

IF you choose to negotiate in PRIVATE.... then go for it... just don't expect any help if it goes to shit when you accept a paypal gift...

Imo it would be a good idea to include this part of the old FAQ:

You know how the forums work. No one should be able to claim that they haven't been warned.

The old Faq is dead....

It was TOO long and in it's own way... sorta useless...

xROTx

PS. i am also... FUCKING tired of trying to explain paypal fees to people in Chat....

The decision has been made... I have stated my position... ANY FUCK who thinks they can disturb my relaxing time in chat with this shit can FOOK OFF...

I will kill as many accounts as it takes for you to realise I aint asking for the Earth... You may POST HERE... to complain or contrbute BUT if you piss me off in chat... I will merge your account with Dion or ChrisR....

 

[Takumaji]

I like the new rules, they're simple and concise. Good job, Rot.

 

[supergoose]

The decision has been made... I have stated my position... ANY FUCK who thinks they can disturb my relaxing time in chat with this shit can FOOK OFF...

I will kill as many accounts as it takes for you to realise I aint asking for the Earth... You may POST HERE... to complain or contrbute BUT if you piss me off in chat... I will merge your account with Dion or ChrisR....

I haven't been in chat in ages.

 

[CORY]

"a) Thread poisoning is frowned upon but will be dealt with on a case to case basis."

"Currently the Market is overseen by the entire memberbase and as such you will be scrutinised by them."

I think we need to merge these rules together. I'm pretty sure the rule a) will be pointed out by noob sellers as soon as someone call them out in their sale thread on whatever it is they're doing wrong.

 

[Rot]

"a) Thread poisoning is frowned upon but will be dealt with on a case to case basis."

"Currently the Market is overseen by the entire memberbase and as such you will be scrutinised by them."

I think we need to merge these rules together. I'm pretty sure the rule a) will be pointed out by noob sellers as soon as someone call them out in their sale thread on whatever it is they're doing wrong.

Best keep these points apart Cory pal...

The "a) Thread poisoning is frowned upon but will be dealt with on a case to case basis." part is to ensure the mod team have enough leeway to look at a thread and make his own decisions...

The "Currently the Market is overseen by the entire memberbase and as such you will be scrutinised by them." is just another way of saying... that I'm lazy and need an army of Elves to help me out...

xROTx

 

[Rot]

f) Paypal Gift ONLY payment options are NOT allowed. You must have BOTH the option for Paypal Gift and the Price plus 4% Paypal Fee. (BUT if you pay via Paypal Gift, you are on your OWN if shit happens).


Bobak never had this much fucking hassle... FFS...

I repeat... FFF__FFF__SSSS!!!!

xROTx

 

[mjmjr25]

Obviously i'm partial to a gift payment given my personal fiasco a little over a year ago. However, as an "official" stance, I appreciate the site may want to state no asking for gift payments in sale threads; with a wink and a nod of recognition that members who trust each other my work out a gift payments.

Two reasons I personally advocate for gift:
1) Anyone who has filed a dispute with paypal regarding a transaction will tell you - they take ZERO account of "incomplete orders", "item not as described", etc. Their protection verifies an item arrive - that's it. Cut and dried. Meaning - you send me $2,000 as goods. I send you a box of air, with tracking. I win / you lose. Again - the extent of paypal buyer protection is they verify the seller sent you an item by verifying a tracking numbers shows an item was delivered. They do not get involved beyond that. Sometimes people confuse ebay buyer protection (which is very good, too far skewed to the buyer) with paypal buyer protection (which skews heavily to the seller). Ebay will take into account a sellers record, feedback, history of cases, history of messages sent, photo evidence and more - paypal just doesn't do that. Your goods payment is buying a false assurance. Their is a very small number of very high value sales, or sales from paypal business accounts, where it is possible to get an actual refund, but those are the exception and does not apply to 99% of deals that happen on forums.

2) The items we are selling are used 99.9% of the time. They are trading hands back and forth - they've been taxed at least one, probably more than once. Their is no need to throw good money to bad on a deal between people who trust each other. I appreciate paypals service and they should profit from the service - but they could avoid the gift payment altogether if they had a flat fee - $1 per transaction or something. This 3.5% flat fee where their work-end is the same if it's a $10 sale or a $1,000 sale is the reason people use gift to begin with.

So - repeating a tl;dr post. The site is probably wise to suggest no mention of gift payments allowed, but those who insist on goods payment privately should understand exactly what it is that their 3.5% is buying.

 

[Rot]

Obviously i'm partial to a gift payment given my personal fiasco a little over a year ago. However, as an "official" stance, I appreciate the site may want to state no asking for gift payments in sale threads; with a wink and a nod of recognition that members who trust each other my work out a gift payments.

Two reasons I personally advocate for gift:
1) Anyone who has filed a dispute with paypal regarding a transaction will tell you - they take ZERO account of "incomplete orders", "item not as described", etc. Their protection verifies an item arrive - that's it. Cut and dried. Meaning - you send me $2,000 as goods. I send you a box of air, with tracking. I win / you lose. Again - the extent of paypal buyer protection is they verify the seller sent you an item by verifying a tracking numbers shows an item was delivered. They do not get involved beyond that. Sometimes people confuse ebay buyer protection (which is very good, too far skewed to the buyer) with paypal buyer protection (which skews heavily to the seller). Ebay will take into account a sellers record, feedback, history of cases, history of messages sent, photo evidence and more - paypal just doesn't do that. Your goods payment is buying a false assurance. Their is a very small number of very high value sales, or sales from paypal business accounts, where it is possible to get an actual refund, but those are the exception and does not apply to 99% of deals that happen on forums.

2) The items we are selling are used 99.9% of the time. They are trading hands back and forth - they've been taxed at least one, probably more than once. Their is no need to throw good money to bad on a deal between people who trust each other. I appreciate paypals service and they should profit from the service - but they could avoid the gift payment altogether if they had a flat fee - $1 per transaction or something. This 3.5% flat fee where their work-end is the same if it's a $10 sale or a $1,000 sale is the reason people use gift to begin with.

So - repeating a tl;dr post. The site is probably wise to suggest no mention of gift payments allowed, but those who insist on goods payment privately should understand exactly what it is that their 3.5% is buying.

Wanna be market mod?...

Anyway... I have included the paypal gift function now.... as Bobak use to say "Buyer Beware..." or something like that...

My personal view is... TIN HATS needed...

xROTx

 

[brizzo]

Thanks for making the rules simplified, and open to new users.

I'm surprised by the opinions insisting PayPal gift is somehow needed, but to each their own.

 

[Rot]

Thanks for making the rules simplified, and open to new users.

It is open to new users... HOWEVER... not everything is what it seems...

Build a presence first... otherwise the lads will essentially eat you alive...

I'm surprised by the opinions insisting PayPal gift is somehow needed, but to each their own.

This is the nature of the NG.com beast... The forum is made up of independant... highly vocal members...

Being Mod here means you sometimes back down... or change your mind... SURE... I can bully a decision through... but if they word it well enough... I will sometimes revise a decision...

I was once one of those guys screaming at the management.... meh...

xROTx

 

[evil wasabi]

Obviously i'm partial to a gift payment given my personal fiasco a little over a year ago. However, as an "official" stance, I appreciate the site may want to state no asking for gift payments in sale threads; with a wink and a nod of recognition that members who trust each other my work out a gift payments.

Two reasons I personally advocate for gift:
1) Anyone who has filed a dispute with paypal regarding a transaction will tell you - they take ZERO account of "incomplete orders", "item not as described", etc. Their protection verifies an item arrive - that's it. Cut and dried. Meaning - you send me $2,000 as goods. I send you a box of air, with tracking. I win / you lose. Again - the extent of paypal buyer protection is they verify the seller sent you an item by verifying a tracking numbers shows an item was delivered. They do not get involved beyond that. Sometimes people confuse ebay buyer protection (which is very good, too far skewed to the buyer) with paypal buyer protection (which skews heavily to the seller). Ebay will take into account a sellers record, feedback, history of cases, history of messages sent, photo evidence and more - paypal just doesn't do that. Your goods payment is buying a false assurance. Their is a very small number of very high value sales, or sales from paypal business accounts, where it is possible to get an actual refund, but those are the exception and does not apply to 99% of deals that happen on forums.

2) The items we are selling are used 99.9% of the time. They are trading hands back and forth - they've been taxed at least one, probably more than once. Their is no need to throw good money to bad on a deal between people who trust each other. I appreciate paypals service and they should profit from the service - but they could avoid the gift payment altogether if they had a flat fee - $1 per transaction or something. This 3.5% flat fee where their work-end is the same if it's a $10 sale or a $1,000 sale is the reason people use gift to begin with.

So - repeating a tl;dr post. The site is probably wise to suggest no mention of gift payments allowed, but those who insist on goods payment privately should understand exactly what it is that their 3.5% is buying.

If you don't want to follow the rules, because you trust the person on the other end of the deal, then don't.

The entire point of the rules isn't to create bannable offenses. It's to help members protect themselves when dealing with people they shouldn't trust yet. A good amount of deals occur between people who have never done business together before.

 

[mjmjr25]

Right. Which is why I said at the beginning of my post it was probably a good idea to not allow mentioning of git payments. I also said it in the recap of my post.

 

[wyo]

Thanks for making the rules simplified, and open to new users.

I'm surprised by the opinions insisting PayPal gift is somehow needed, but to each their own.

Learn to read. In terms of protection, PP Goods is like paying to reuse a condom.

 

[Rot]

I think... I'm happy with the current form of the Market FAQ...

I must confess I never did read the old FAQ... it was unwieldy and there was no room to "wiggle" a decision through...

This way... the forum gets a basic framework and the Lads can adjudicate on individual cases if need be...

The FAQ reflects how the market is being currently run... and well... it seems to be nicely running itself...

xROTx

PS. I must also add that the Neosd release has increased footfall of SnK related items... especially amongst the MVS and AES threads... Fun times

 

[Viewpoint]

This is pretty nice rot. Good work sir.~

 

[aha2940]

I see the rules real good, thanks for the hard work Rot. My only observation would be this: Paypal charges different fees to people for whatever reason (they charge me 5.5%, for instance). Could the 4% of the rules be replaced by something like "the correspondant/applying fees" please? Just to avoid confusion in that aspect.

Thanks!!

 

[Rot]

I see the rules real good, thanks for the hard work Rot. My only observation would be this: Paypal charges different fees to people for whatever reason (they charge me 5.5%, for instance). Could the 4% of the rules be replaced by something like "the correspondant/applying fees" please? Just to avoid confusion in that aspect.

Thanks!!

OK... sounds reasonable... done...

xROTx

PS. I am not a great Fan of overlong... boring FAQS because I find most Forums (including ours)... have a memberbase with a short attention span and don't like over complicated posts...

HENCE... I will not be adding TOO much more to the FAQ unless I feel it is completely warranted...

WELCOME TO THE INTERNET AGE!