Who you going to vote for between Trump and Hillary?

Trump or Hillary?

  • Trump

    Votes: 72 53.3%
  • Hillary

    Votes: 63 46.7%

  • Total voters
    135

SML

NEANDERTHAL FUCKER,
20 Year Member
this thread is waste of time.

I *knew* you were a Russian plant!

do you have health insurance?

who's paying for it you or your employer?

have the rates changed more than once in the last 8 quarters? by how much?

do you pay property tax? when was the last time your property tax got a reduction?

do you live near gov subsidized housing? how about within 100 miles of a major city?

do you receive public assistance of any kind?

If you're looking for someone to argue libertarian economic policy with, I'm not your guy, friend. "None of the above" isn't an option on my ballot.
 

Average Joe

Be water, my friend.
20 Year Member
I feel guilty troll posting in front of Average Joe.

I was going to come in here and make a legitimate post about this subject, but my old buddy above just nailed it for me. But now my one post every 3-4 months quota has been met and I'm off.
 
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Kristian Meller

Vanguard Pilot
10 Year Member
Interviewer: So, who's your favourite Game of Thrones character?

Trump: I think that Joffrey is fantastic... A great guy! Joffrey is the sweetest ever!

wm_2016-08-14_1048456z.jpg

Text box: Donald Trump definitively proves that he just can't say the right thing.
 

norton9478

So Many Posts
No Time
For Games.
20 Year Member
The POTUS can issue an order for a launch, BUT THIS DOES NOT ACTUALLY LAUNCH ANYTHING. THERE IS NO BIG RED BUTTON.
The SoD needs to CONFIRM THE ORDER. IF HE DOES NOT, THE LAUNCH CANNOT HAPPEN.

Never said anything about a big red button.

But I want to get this right, your deterrent against a stupid use of nuclear weapons is for the SOD to not do his job in confirming the order?
 

mjmjr25

went home to be a family man
10 Year Member
But I want to get this right, your deterrent against a stupid use of nuclear weapons is for the SOD to not do his job in confirming the order?

There "job" in this scenario isn't to rubberstamp a direct order; their job is to either reach the same conclusion OR not reach the same conclusion as the president. In your ramblings you are supposing a President Trump has gone insane and then you would have us believe that the SoD rather than say, "Wait a minute...this is insane. No." He/she would just agree and confirm the request. Let me ask why you think that? President is insane - trying to start nuclear war - clearly EVERYONE could see this, so what fear would the SoD have? Losing their job? Not likely - rather, they'd probably be credited with saving millions of lives and the president would be impeached...

You also have not read, or maybe you have and just don't understand. It isn't 1, or 2, or 3, or 4 or...it is about a 1/2 dozen or more people minimum who would all have to go insane at the same time to launch an unjustified nuclear weapon - any one of those people along the way can stop the entire process. President asks the person with him, to give him the briefcase that holds the codes - then the approval order from SoD, then the call to the commander at whichever launch station is involved, then he/she will give the order and depending on bomber, station, or sub, either 2 people have to confirm at same time, or a pilot has to be given the order and then actually deliver the weapon.

I hope your concern is this great regarding nukes in say, Pakistan, Israel, India, Russia, China...you know, places that don't have these safeguards in place.
 

Pasky

Fug:DDDDD,
anybody interested in (official FOIA) documents outlining in detail how the sec of state provided weapons to militias in syria?

nah? all good?

http://preview.tinyurl.com/freegunz4freedumb

I mean when does it fucking end.. when is enough, enough

Nah man, the sad part is how people put their heads in the sand about this and say, "She'll be an acceptable president" despite the fucking mountains of evidence and scandals going on, they're still dismissive. Dat cognitive dissonance.
 

DNSDies

I LOVE HILLARY CLINTON!
Never said anything about a big red button.

But I want to get this right, your deterrent against a stupid use of nuclear weapons is for the SOD to not do his job in confirming the order?

Yes, as well as EVERY EVENT THAT GOES INTO APPOINTING THE SOD AND HIS CAREER.
Congress can VERY EASILY block the appointment of an SOD, and they can impeach one much easier than the POTUS.

I don't care if it is his job to do what the president says, 99.99_% of people will not launch a nuke against even an enemy unless there is a very good reason, like being in all out war with them in which the situation might call for nukes, or having detected a nuclear launch from them, or having already been struck by nuclear weapons by a foreign power. Those are legitimate uses of nuclear weapons, and even then, the vast majority of people STILL wouldn't launch, knowing it would almost certainly lead to widespread nuclear exchange.

If you seriously think that some madman president will just go through Acting Secretaries until he finds one he agrees with and nobody in the room will stop what is CLEARLY an insane man, you are a moron.
Additionally, the president is rarely alone. He's often accompanied by Secret Service agents, and I doubt that they, or anyone else in the room would stand idly by while the POTUS tries to launch nukes maliciously.

You're grasping at straws, and once again, your entire premise is based on delusion or fantasy.
 
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Kristian Meller

Vanguard Pilot
10 Year Member
Nah man, the sad part is how people put their heads in the sand about this and say, "She'll be an acceptable president" despite the fucking mountains of evidence and scandals going on, they're still dismissive. Dat cognitive dissonance.

Oh, the irony.
 

MuppeT

War Room Troll
Except that's not what I said at all shit for brains, also lol @ Drumpf.

Ah ... Kristian Meller .. another scrub from the land of "rape us for free .. .coz we are stupid and love it " comes in here with the I know it all attitude.
 

Montatez

Aero Fighters Flyboy
Nah man, the sad part is how people put their heads in the sand about this and say, "She'll be an acceptable president" despite the fucking mountains of evidence and scandals going on, they're still dismissive. Dat cognitive dissonance.

The desensitization of our world from the media. Human beings have and will always act based on emotion rather then reason.

Apparently our animalistic instincts have not subsided just yet...
 

Montatez

Aero Fighters Flyboy
Fuck em both...

I know who I'm voting for do you?
 

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norton9478

So Many Posts
No Time
For Games.
20 Year Member
Yes, as well as EVERY EVENT THAT GOES INTO APPOINTING THE SOD AND HIS CAREER.
Congress can VERY EASILY block the appointment of an SOD, and they can impeach one much easier than the POTUS.

I don't care if it is his job to do what the president says, 99.99_% of people will not launch a nuke against even an enemy unless there is a very good reason, like being in all out war with them in which the situation might call for nukes, or having detected a nuclear launch from them, or having already been struck by nuclear weapons by a foreign power. Those are legitimate uses of nuclear weapons, and even then, the vast majority of people STILL wouldn't launch, knowing it would almost certainly lead to widespread nuclear exchange.

If you seriously think that some madman president will just go through Acting Secretaries until he finds one he agrees with and nobody in the room will stop what is CLEARLY an insane man, you are a moron.
Additionally, the president is rarely alone. He's often accompanied by Secret Service agents, and I doubt that they, or anyone else in the room would stand idly by while the POTUS tries to launch nukes maliciously.

You're grasping at straws, and once again, your entire premise is based on delusion or fantasy.

I choose to not put my faith in the failure of the chain of command.

Any SOD who would break the chain of command should not be confirmed.
 
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DNSDies

I LOVE HILLARY CLINTON!
"I, (state name of enlistee), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

The UCMJ does not take kindly to those who break the law while "following orders"

These articles require the obedience of LAWFUL orders. An order which is unlawful not only does not need to be obeyed but obeying such an order can result in criminal prosecution of the one who obeys it. Military courts have long held that military members are accountable for their actions even while following orders -- if the order was illegal.

The first recorded case of a United States Military officer using the "I was only following orders" defense dates back to 1799. During the War with France, Congress passed a law making it permissible to seize ships bound to any French Port. However, when President John Adams wrote the order to authorize the U.S. Navy to do so, he wrote that Navy ships were authorized to seize any vessel bound for a French port, or traveling from a French port. Pursuant to the President's instructions, a U.S. Navy captain seized a Danish Ship (the Flying Fish), which was en route from a French Port. The owners of the ship sued the Navy captain in U.S. maritime court for trespass. They won, and the United States Supreme Court upheld the decision. The U.S. Supreme Court held that Navy commanders "act at their own peril" when obeying presidential orders when such orders are illegal.

So, not only are you wrong, there is case law proving that a President's unlawful orders should never be followed.
Every member of the military is aware of this, and the vast majority of them take that oath VERY seriously.
 

famicommander

Tak enabled this rank change
15 Year Member
Gary Johnson is the only remotely acceptable candidate, which is a crying shame because he is frankly an embarrassment to the libertarian movement at large.

He's really closer to an old right conservative who just doesn't happen to hate gays, Mexicans, or stoners.
 

Montatez

Aero Fighters Flyboy
Gary Johnson is the only remotely acceptable candidate, which is a crying shame because he is frankly an embarrassment to the libertarian movement at large.

He's really closer to an old right conservative who just doesn't happen to hate gays, Mexicans, or stoners.

That whole screw Israel thing is big problem as well...
 

StevenK

ng.com SFII tournament winner 2002-2023
10 Year Member
Trump has too many golf courses in foreign countries to go nuking them, including Muslim countries. Fixing a 15 megaton nuclear divot would be a real bitch.
 
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