And you thought France was bad? It's Xmas time.. sorry, I mean the 'Holiday Season'

toy_brain

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I dunno if this is something that has only recently been a problem in the USA, or if its just the BBC making up a seasonal news story on a no-news-day.
Perhaps you chaps across the pond would care to comment....

BBC news Linky
 

BeefJerky

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I saw muslim kids at the mall sitting on Santa's lap. That says a lot to me. Santa is NOT limited to Christianity, he is a jolly old soul for kids of all ages :)

EDIT: ages should be backgrounds. i'm not here today.
 
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Lord_Yama

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Re: And you thought France was bad? It's Xmas time.. sorry, I mean the 'Holiday Seaso

toy_brain said:
I dunno if this is something that has only recently been a problem in the USA, or if its just the BBC making up a seasonal news story on a no-news-day.
Perhaps you chaps across the pond would care to comment....

BBC news Linky

The article if well written, but I'd note that Christmas is EXTRMELY secularized in America, to the point that many Christian groups actually are offended by secular Christmas, and nearly everyone celebrates it- even those that don't believe in God.

The politically correct left has fought for years to "diversify" the holiday season by adding in everything from Chanukkah to Kwanzaa, but these attempts are curiously hollow in most people's minds. The portion of the population celebrating these is much, much smaller, and the attempts at secularizing other holidays...well, if you truely believe in a religion would you want one of your holidays secularized in the same manner?

Also, it is notable that the commercial driving force behind Christmas is incredible here. Christmas itself keeps our economy ticking, so big corporations, while willing to give a nod to Kwanzaa, Chanukkah, etc, don't ignore Christmas's marketing value, and take an active role in promoting a secularized Chistmas.
 

K_K

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in all honesty, that's just how it's done here, i mean we try so hard for political correctness becasue we know that if there is any sort of item that could be construed as religious on public grounds some douchebag is gonna sue. a church can have crosses with bloody jesuses on them, but it's a church, it's their land and they can do what they want on it as long as it's not illegal. but on public grounds you can't have any sort of anything that can be called religious in any way simply because there's always that one perso out for money who really isn't offended just wants to sue. and thanks to our right to free speech, a fair and quick trial, and our right to take any matter we see fitting to court people will keep doing it. they're excersizing their rights (which there's nothing wrong with) but it limits others expression (which there is something wrong with) i'm not too sure on which side i personally stand on but i think that people need to learn to loosen up and just go with the flow. the american people take things a little too seriously these days, and frankly i think we all need to sip a beer or two and just let it all hang out.
 

mog

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Re: Re: And you thought France was bad? It's Xmas time.. sorry, I mean the 'Holiday Seaso

jethrek said:
...The portion of the population celebrating these is much, much smaller...

Any facts to clarify this completely baseless statement?
 

FeelGood

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Just so you guys all know, I hate Christmas.

I'm going to make a little post in a bit about my own Christmas Carol...
 

Howdoin

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Just to made a point clear : Santa Claus has nothing to do with Christianity (or not has much as you think).

Origins: Santa
Claus is perhaps the most remarkable of all the figures associated with Christmas. To us, Santa has always been an essential part of the Christmas celebration, but the modern image of Santa didn't develop until well into the 19th century. Moreover, he didn't spring to life fully-formed as a literary creation or a commercial invention (as did his famous reindeer, Rudolph). Santa Claus was an evolutionary creation, brought about by the fusion of two religious personages (St. Nicholas and Christkindlein, the Christ child) to become a fixed image which is now the paramount symbol of the secular Christmas celebration.

In 1804, the New York Historical Society was founded with Nicholas as its patron saint, its members reviving the Dutch tradition of St. Nicholas as a gift-bringer. In 1809, Washington Irving published his satirical A History of New York, by one "Diedrich Knickerbocker," a work that poked fun at New York's Dutch past (St. Nicholas included). When Irving became a member of the Society the following year, the annual St. Nicholas Day dinner festivities included a woodcut of the traditional Nicholas figure (tall, with long robes) accompanied by a Dutch rhyme about "Sancte Claus" (in Dutch, "Sinterklaas"). Irving revised his History of New York in 1812, adding details about Nicholas' "riding over the tops of the trees, in that selfsame waggon wherein he brings his yearly presents to children." In 1821, a New York printer named William Gilley issued a poem about a "Santeclaus" who dressed all in fur and drove a sleigh pulled by one reindeer. Gilley's "Sante," however, was very short.

On Christmas Eve of 1822, another New Yorker, Clement Clarke Moore, wrote down and read to his children a series of verses; his poem was published a year later as "An Account of a Visit from St. Nicholas" (more commonly known today by its opening line, "'Twas the night before Christmas . . ."). Moore gave St. Nick eight reindeer (and named them all), and he devised the now-familiar entrance by chimney. Moore's Nicholas was still a small figure, however — the poem describes a "miniature sleigh" with a "little old driver."

Meanwhile, in parts of Europe such as Germany, Nicholas the gift-giver had been superseded by a representation of the infant Jesus (the Christ child, or "Christkindlein"). The Christkindlein accompanied Nicholas-like figures with other names (such as "Père Nöel" in France), or he travelled with a dwarf-like helper (known in some places as "Pelznickel," or Nicholas with furs). Belsnickle (as Pelznickel was known in the German-American dialect of Pennsylvania) was represented by adults who dressed in furry disguises (including false whiskers), visited while children were still awake, and put on a scary performance. Gifts found by children the next morning were credited to Christkindlein, who had come while everyone was asleep. Over time, the non-visible Christkindlein (whose name mutated into "Kriss Kringle") was overshadowed by the visible Belsnickle, and both of them became confused with St. Nicholas and the emerging figure of Santa Claus.

The modern Santa Claus derived from these two images: St. Nicholas the elf-like gift bringer described by Moore, and a friendlier "Kriss Kringle" amalgam of the Christkindlein and Pelznickel figures. The man-sized version of Santa became the dominant image around 1841, when a Philadelphia merchant named J.W. Parkinson hired a man to dress in "Criscringle" clothing and climb the chimney outside his shop.

In 1863, a caricaturist for Harper's Weekly named Thomas Nast began developing his own image of Santa. Nast gave his figure a "flowing set of whiskers" and dressed him "all in fur, from his head to his foot." Nast's 1866 montage entitled "Santa Claus and His Works" established Santa as a maker of toys; an 1869 book of the same name collected new Nast drawings with a poem by George P. Webster that identified the North Pole as Santa's home. Although Nast never settled on one size for his Santa figures (they ranged from elf-like to man-sized), his 1881 "Merry Old Santa Claus" drawing is quite close to the modern-day image.

The Santa Claus figure, although not yet standardized, was ubiquitous by the late 19th century. Santa was portrayed as both large and small; he was usually round but sometimes of normal or slight build; and he dressed in furs (like Belsnickle) or cloth suits of red, blue, green, or purple. A Boston printer named Louis Prang introduced the English custom of Christmas cards to America, and in 1885 he issued a card featuring a red-suited Santa. The chubby Santa with a red suit (like an "overweight superhero") began to replace the fur-dressed Belsnickle image and the multicolored Santas.

At the beginning of the 1930s, the burgeoning Coca-Cola company was still looking for ways to increase sales of their product during winter, then a slow time of year for the soft drink market. They turned to a talented commercial illustrator named Haddon Sundblom, who created a series of memorable drawings that associated the figure of a larger than life, red-and-white garbed Santa Claus with Coca-Cola. Coke's annual advertisements — featuring Sundblom-drawn Santas holding bottles of Coca-Cola, drinking Coca-Cola, receiving Coca-Cola as gifts, and especially enjoying Coca-Cola — became a perennial Christmastime feature which helped spur Coca-Cola sales throughout the winter (and produced the bonus effect of appealing quite strongly to children, an important segment of the soft drink market). The success of this advertising campaign has helped fuel the legend that Coca-Cola actually invented the image of the modern Santa Claus, decking him out in a red-and-white suit to promote the company colors — or that at the very least, Coca-Cola chose to promote the red-and-white version of Santa Claus over a variety of competing Santa figures in order to establish it as the accepted image of Santa Claus.

This legend is not true. Although some versions of the Santa Claus figure still had him attired in various colors of outfits past the beginning of the 20th century, the jolly, ruddy, sack-carrying Santa with a red suit and flowing white whiskers had become the standard image of Santa Claus by the 1920s, several years before Sundlom drew his first Santa illustration for Coca-Cola. As The New York Times reported on 27 November 1927:

A standardized Santa Claus appears to New York children. Height, weight, stature are almost exactly standardized, as are the red garments, the hood and the white whiskers. The pack full of toys, ruddy cheeks and nose, bushy eyebrows and a jolly, paunchy effect are also inevitable parts of the requisite make-up.
It's simply mind-boggling that at the beginning the 21st century, historians are still egregiously perpetuating inaccurate information like the following:

So complete was the colonization of Christmas that Coke's Santa had elbowed aside all comers by the 1940s. He was the Santa of the 1947 movie Miracle on 34th Street just as he is the Santa of the recent film The Santa Clause. He is the Santa on Hallmark cards, he is the Santa riding the Norelco shaver each Christmas season, he is the department-store Santa, and he is even the Salvation Army Santa!1
As we just pointed out above, the modern Santa had "elbowed aside all comers" long before the 1940s, and well before Coca-Cola co-opted him as their wintertime advertising symbol. And we're at a loss to understand how anyone could have recognized the Santa of Miracle on 34th Street, a BLACK-AND-WHITE film, as the red-and-white Coca-Cola Santa.

All this isn't to say that Coca-Cola didn't have anything to do with cementing that image of Santa Claus in the public consciousness. The Santa image may have been standardized before Coca-Cola adopted it for their advertisements, but Coca-Cola had a great deal to do with establishing Santa Claus as a ubiquitous Christmas figure in America at a time when the holiday was still making the transition from a religious observance to a largely secular and highly commercial celebration. In an era before color television (or commercial television of any kind), color films, and the widespread use of color in newspapers, it was Coca-Cola's magazine advertisements, billboards, and point-of-sale store displays that exposed nearly everyone in America to the modern Santa Claus image. Coca-Cola certainly helped make Santa Claus one of the most popular men in America, but they didn't invent him.
 
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Lord_Yama

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Re: Re: Re: And you thought France was bad? It's Xmas time.. sorry, I mean the 'Holid

mog said:
Any facts to clarify this completely baseless statement?

Do you have any facts to discount that? I didn't think so. Display something that suggests otherwise and I will not simply consider you an argumentative troll.

I loved your post howdoin. Great stuff.
 

neobuyer

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Am I the only one that finds the attempted legitimatization of Kwanzaa to be fucking hilarious?

"Yo yo, wazup my peoples, we be makin' our OWN holiday now baby!" "Take that Honkies!"

Seriously- Kwanzaa?

Kwanzaa is to black people what fucking square dancing is to white people

"Greetings my brothuh- allow me to innaduce you to my daughters; Taieeshakeeshamakaleisha, Sudafedessa and FordFocussa"





:glee:
 

DangerousK

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neobuyer said:
Am I the only one that finds the attempted legitimatization of Kwanzaa to be fucking hilarious?

"Yo yo, wazup my peoples, we be makin' our OWN holiday now baby!" "Take that Honkies!"

Seriously- Kwanzaa?

Kwanzaa is to black people what fucking square dancing is to white people

"Greetings my brothuh- allow me to innaduce you to my daughters; Taieeshakeeshamakaleisha, Sudafedessa and FordFocussa"





:glee:

:lol: :lol: :tickled:
 

Nesagwa

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Look, I dont know about you people but My family believes that the Santa Claus died for our sins.
Dont make fun of our religion.

I remember last year, we put out our traditional Santa on Crucifix statue, and everyone yelled at us and threw tomatoes at our house.

Santa was a good man, and we give gifts to remind us of his kindness before he was put to death for heracy 2000 years ago.
 

Buro Destruct

Formerly known as, Buro Destruct, , Southtown Stre
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I find it offensive that more often than not, the BBC writes and produces better news articles and programs about American culture than the American media does.

I think Bernie Mac has summed it up best:
"Christmas is just one big damn commercial."
 
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