Communism really doesn't seem that bad

Segata_Sanshiro

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Apart from the mass killings (which happen with any revolution, not just communist ones) it seems like the Eastern Bloc/China were nice enough places to live. Free healthcare, guaranteed work, and a low rate of violent crime.

They should have kept that junk in place
 

LoneSage

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yeah it is pretty chill

western media definitely has a bias whenever it comes to anything china
 
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Well... China really isn't a communist country. And if you do read up on actual communism, you will find out that lots of the ideas have been incorporated into western societies. Maybe not in the US, probably more Rousseau than Marx. The earlier writings of Lenin and Rosa Luxemburgs struggle illustrate that really they had great ambitions, mostly very altruistic. What the Russians have turned that into... well I am not going into that. But China isn't really a socialist country at all if you ask me. It's lacking a lot of the original intentions when it comes to human rights and protection of workers. They also misinterpreted a lot of marx writings because of translation issues and cultural differences, apparently. Can't give concrete examples but I have been told in University that this is one of the causes why they perverted this whole thing.

Communism in it's purest form in my opinion manifested in Cuba right after the liberated it... right before castro went completely crazy and started murdering everyone who didn't fit. Ernesto Guevara was a humanist, then a rebell leader, and when the pressure got too big and his responsibilities became too large he turned into a war criminal. Castro never had any intentions of founding a socialist state, he just utilized the intense revolutionary potential. He really just wanted to become head of state himself and get rid of Batista (who was even more terrible as a leader, and a fascist fuck, pardon my language).

It all comes down to this: Great ideas of liberation always turn into violent carricatures of themselves if someone has too much power, be it a single leader or an oligarchic leadership instance of any kind. So keep reading about it, use their ideas, reinvent them all the time but: call it something else!!!!
 

LoneSage

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great post, xnopasaranx

they got pictures of karl marx hanging up at schools alongside mao and darwin (yeah i dunno why darwin's got pictures hanging but whateva)
 
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NeoSneth

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Socialism is a better government for developing countries. The problem is you will have a hard time removing people from power once the country has caught up to the rest of the world.
 

Takumaji

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Communism has its light sides but one of main problems is the one-party thing, the mandate given by the masses to a bunch of people who are in control of the means of production (and the lifes of the people) and, given their god-like status, are prone to become tyrants. Democracy is flawed as well but at least it lets people form their own opinions (to some extend) and express them with founding a party who is allowed to have completely contrary views than the one in charge.
 

aria

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Communism has its light sides but one of main problems is the one-party thing, the mandate given by the masses to a bunch of people who are in control of the means of production (and the lifes of the people) and, given their god-like status, are prone to become tyrants. Democracy is flawed as well but at least it lets people form their own opinions (to some extend) and express them with founding a party who is allowed to have completely contrary views than the one in charge.

That sounds like counterrevolutionary talk to me! Clearly bourgeois and feudal influences are clouding your judgement and require reeducation. Off to the camp with you--learn correct thinking through hard labor.
 

T.A.P.

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Ignoring all of the murder/killings and repression that seem to go along with it, isn't one its biggest problems supposed to be its centrally planned economy?

Not that it's any of my business, but were you born in East or West Germany Takumaji?
 

Cylotron

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Communism has its light sides but one of main problems is the one-party thing, the mandate given by the masses to a bunch of people who are in control of the means of production (and the lifes of the people) and, given their god-like status, are prone to become tyrants. Democracy is flawed as well but at least it lets people form their own opinions (to some extend) and express them with founding a party who is allowed to have completely contrary views than the one in charge.

the issue with democracy(at least in good ol' usa) is that the whole thing about people's opinions, say, etc is all an illusion. realistically, the government can do whatever the hell it wants to and not even the president can do anything about it.
"oh, what's that mr president? you're going to change this? change that? help these people?" "sounds cool & all, but apparently the house/senate don't like it so too bad! game over mr president!"
 

Takumaji

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Ignoring all of the murder/killings and repression that seem to go along with it, isn't one its biggest problems supposed to be its centrally planned economy?

Not that it's any of my business, but were you born in East or West Germany Takumaji?

Murder/killings and oppression is a consequence of the central committee thing, that's what I'm getting at. It almost always ends in tyranny, oppression and all that, coupled with often disastrous economic decisions based on insane theoretical plans. The "model communism" in Cuba has the very same problems, some people just constantly ignore it because they obviously still believe in the Castro/Che mythos.

I was born in West Germany in 1970, btw. In case you want to know, some of our relatives lived in the GDR so we learned a lot about the daily horrors of so-called real existing socialism and communism first hand.

Zardoz said:
the issue with democracy(at least in good ol' usa) is that the whole thing about people's opinions, say, etc is all an illusion. realistically, the government can do whatever the hell it wants to and not even the president can do anything about it.
"oh, what's that mr president? you're going to change this? change that? help these people?" "sounds cool & all, but apparently the house/senate don't like it so too bad! game over mr president!"

Yes, quite agree, these are the darker aspects of democracy which also is a far-from-perfect form of government but at least not as bad as all the implementations of communism we had in various countries so far.

Hate to say it, but we have to go with the lesser-of-two-evils thing here.

Or Anarchosyndicalism, my fave of the lot. :D :loco:
 
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Dr Shroom

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Apart from the mass killings (which happen with any revolution, not just communist ones) it seems like the Eastern Bloc/China were nice enough places to live. Free healthcare, guaranteed work, and a low rate of violent crime.

They should have kept that junk in place

I heard Pyongyang is nice around this time of the year...
 

Fuzzytaco

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^Beautiful country side in the summer. Seriously, fuck communism.
 

OrochiEddie

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There has never been a true communist state so it is impossible to tell.

Human condition has always interfered with the process.



Stalin was worse than Hitler if you ask me. I think he gets far less attention because he just killed anyone and everyone rather than a systematic murdering of a few groups.
 

ki_atsushi

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Stalin was worse than Hitler if you ask me.

This isn't just opinion, this is fact. Stalin had 20 million+ killed, Hitler 6 million.

P.S. - Communism/socialism sounds great on paper, but never works in practice. Fuck that bullshit, and fuck commie lovers.
 
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ki_atsushi

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You're right, I used the number that I heard most often, and forgot about the rest of the people he killed. He's still weak sauce compared to Stalin though.
 

OrochiEddie

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This isn't just opinion, this is fact. Stalin had 20 million+ killed, Hitler 6 million.

P.S. - Communism/socialism sounds great on paper, but never works in practice. Fuck that bullshit, and fuck commie lovers.

but its hard to argue whether it doesn't work because of the system, or the people running it. I've read about some "Democracies" that are as terrifying as 1960s Russia
 

Lagduf

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Eddie has it. There has never been a true communist state.

Have there been any successful lasting communes or work co-ops?
 

Fuzzytaco

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There could never be a pure communist state, human nature will never alow it. No matter what kind of utopia you prefer, it will never exist outside your own head.
 

Poonman

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I think I'll leave this here:
 
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SNKorSWM

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Unlike the old Iron curtain Eastern Europe, China was never a satellite state reliant on the Russians to stay afloat. They could (and had) told the Soviet Union to go fu...uhh mind their own business. The communist countries that were self sufficient weren't affected by the collapse of the USSR.
 
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