Konami TMNT PCB bad image

[bluehedgehog91]

Hi guys... a video tells more than a thousand words...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgnyBFovx5w&feature=channel

What's the problem in this?... what can i do??? the board is original, it just has been repaired the audio amp on it.

Thanks!

 

[Xian Xi]

Reseat all the socket chips. If that doesn't fix it look at the PCB for any broken or touching legs on chips and also broken traces.

 

[bluehedgehog91]

Reseat all the socket chips. If that doesn't fix it look at the PCB for any broken or touching legs on chips and also broken traces.

What do you mean with reseat all the socket chips?... taking them out and put it on again???

thanks for the answer

 

[Xian Xi]

Exactly, pull them out and put them back in.

 

[bluehedgehog91]

Done, but there is no difference. Also checked all the traces i could but nothing seems to be bad. If you can tell me if there is a place in the board i should check in particular. Also, i took off the amplifier that the previous owner put instead of the original MB3731 because it was a very crappy install (i will replace it for one like the original).

If you can put a picture it could be great.

Thanks!

 

[TerryMasters]

It might not be bad traces but bad solder joints. I don't think it's that likely, but it could explain why it passes the ROM test and then displays garbled graphics.

It really does look like something you would reseat the roms to fix, but check the solder around the ROM sockets. You can also check for corrosion around the caps to see if anything has leaked. It can't hurt to do the usual deal either, cleaning the JAMMA connectors and such. A toothbrush and electronic spray cleaner can work wonders for these things.

Edit: Actually, if the game will let you boot without it, try removing the roms one at a time. Take one out, turn it on and look at the results. Then put it back and try the next one. Keep doing this one by one until you're holding a rom in your hand and getting results like you have now. At least that way, you'll know where the problem is.

 

[mainman]

It not as simple as maybe some mis socketed roms guys. The game will let you boot up fine as long as ram and program rom check out What you need to do is break out a probe or scope and check the signals on the mask roms and custom konami chips.

 

[TerryMasters]

It might not be that complicated either. The reason why I suggested removing the roms one at a time is because I don't believe logic probes are that common of a tool, at least compared to basic multimeters for instance. So say he removes the roms one at a time, eventually he should come across one that affects the same area in the title screen that he showed in his video though possibly with different or missing graphics versus what he had before. Once he finds that rom, he can work from there.

You are right mainman, don't get me wrong. But I don't have a logic probe myself, so in situations like these I typically advise what I would do in that situation with the tools I have or have used at one point or another.

 

[mainman]

It might not be that complicated either. The reason why I suggested removing the roms one at a time is because I don't believe logic probes are that common of a tool, at least compared to basic multimeters for instance. So say he removes the roms one at a time, eventually he should come across one that affects the same area in the title screen that he showed in his video though possibly with different or missing graphics versus what he had before. Once he finds that rom, he can work from there.

You are right mainman, don't get me wrong. But I don't have a logic probe myself, so in situations like these I typically advise what I would do in that situation with the tools I have or have used at one point or another.

The only removable roms are the program roms and those are checksummed at boot up so the probability of one being bad is low. The mask roms are not automatically checked at all unless your running the set 2 program rom revision.

He will not be able to accomplish anything by removing the socketed program rom one by one and observing as the game will not boot at all with even one missing, it like taking both the bios ad OS out of your PC and then trying to enter system restore to fix a registry problem.

If you plan to collect this stuff you need to buy basic tools and parts to maintain this equipment and gain a understanding of how to use them. I would suggest first check the mask roms by flipping switch 3 to the on position on dip bank 3 to do a mask rom check to eliminate or confirm a bad mask rom.

 

[TerryMasters]

I appreciate what you're saying, but this was all under the advisory of what I stated earlier:

...if the game will let you boot without it, try removing the roms one at a time.

I don't own one of these boards, but most of the games I own not only have socketed program roms but sound and graphics roms as well, in which case my theory might have worked had the TMNT hardware had a similar setup - I say this because I've done it before. I understand that removing the program roms would most likely render the board useless. However with no prior knowledge of the hardware this game runs on, I simply made a suggestion that could have helped.

I would never argue that having an additional tool lying around would be a bad idea. If you can get one, I suggest you do just that. However in my experience, having been through numerous game boards both helping others and working on those of my own, there hasn't been a video ram error nor watchdog issue I couldn't repair despite not having a logic probe. To be perfectly honest, I just haven't had the time to buy one. In any event, if this board has a dipswitch that can test the other roms as you're suggesting, and the OP hasn't already done so, then yes they should absolutely do that first. Bluehedgehog, if you take some nice pictures of the front and the back of the board, it can only help as someone might notice something you may have missed.

 

[mainman]

I appreciate what you're saying, but this was all under the advisory of what I stated earlier:



I don't own one of these boards, but most of the games I own not only have socketed program roms but sound and graphics roms as well, in which case my theory might have worked had the TMNT hardware had a similar setup - I say this because I've done it before. I understand that removing the program roms would most likely render the board useless. However with no prior knowledge of the hardware this game runs on, I simply made a suggestion that could have helped.

I would never argue that having an additional tool lying around would be a bad idea. If you can get one, I suggest you do just that. However in my experience, having been through numerous game boards both helping others and working on those of my own, there hasn't been a video ram error nor watchdog issue I couldn't repair despite not having a logic probe. To be perfectly honest, I just haven't had the time to buy one. In any event, if this board has a dipswitch that can test the other roms as you're suggesting, and the OP hasn't already done so, then yes they should absolutely do that first. Bluehedgehog, if you take some nice pictures of the front and the back of the board, it can only help as someone might notice something you may have missed.

Dude it was never my intent to come across as a ass, I'm just trying to help this guy out.

I kind of do own this board and have repaired many TMNT boards, I also own a library of similar konami board that I have repaired other copies of them in the past. I am speaking from experience. A cut trace right in front of your face is just a obvious fault that is not always the case or even total cause.

Konami boards are complex more so then others because there is so much logic on them that makes a probe or scope a must. Any component level work done without them totally on your own is guessing

 

[TerryMasters]

No worries man, it's all good

 

[bluehedgehog91]

Hi guys! thanks a lot for your recommendations. I tried all i could that was mentioned in this thread and this are the results:

With Dip 3 on

mask rom check

K4 BAD
K6 BAD

H4 BAD
H6 BAD

K27 OK
K27 OK

The test took near a minute to complete i think.

So... at this point, what's the next step?

I have to take some pictures of the board but i won't have the camera 'till tomorrow...

Thanks!

 

[Xian Xi]

The ones listed as bad take a pic of the chip and the underside of the board where the chips are. If you don't have an eprom burner to compare the data on the chips with the mame dumps then you might need to send it out to someone to fix.

 

[mainman]

The roms are 27c400 so get out a data sheet and multimeter and buzz out the bad mask roms. If that checks out get a probe and check the custom chips. You might want to remove the mask roms and do a checksum on a programmer

 

[bluehedgehog91]

The ones listed as bad take a pic of the chip and the underside of the board where the chips are. If you don't have an eprom burner to compare the data on the chips with the mame dumps then you might need to send it out to someone to fix.

Here are the pics of the masked chips and the lastone is pcb underside... (i don't see anything weird on them)

http://a.imageshack.us/img442/2416/01masked.jpg

http://a.imageshack.us/img822/9541/02masked.jpg

http://a.imageshack.us/img682/8621/03masked.jpg

http://a.imageshack.us/img822/628/04under.jpg

I have no eprom burner and have no knowledge about eprom programming and that kind of stuff...
I have much limited knowledge on electronics (practically none) only I can solder prolixly and have done very prolix modifications to some consoles following tutoriales. At present I am starting to build a supergun.

The roms are 27c400 so get out a data sheet and multimeter and buzz out the bad mask roms. If that checks out get a probe and check the custom chips. You might want to remove the mask roms and do a checksum on a programmer

I don't know how to do that; thanks for setting me on the way.

Anyone can burn new chips for me and deliver to Argentina? how much it can be?

Once again thanks a lot guys!

 

[mainman]

Here are the pics of the masked chips and the lastone is pcb underside... (i don't see anything weird on them)

http://a.imageshack.us/img442/2416/01masked.jpg

http://a.imageshack.us/img822/9541/02masked.jpg

http://a.imageshack.us/img682/8621/03masked.jpg

http://a.imageshack.us/img822/628/04under.jpg

I have no eprom burner and have no knowledge about eprom programming and that kind of stuff...
I have much limited knowledge on electronics (practically none) only I can solder prolixly and have done very prolix modifications to some consoles following tutoriales. At present I am starting to build a supergun.



I don't know how to do that; thanks for setting me on the way.

Anyone can burn new chips for me and deliver to Argentina? how much it can be?

Once again thanks a lot guys!

80% chance its not the masks roms but a broken trace, buy a new board if the troubleshooting is over your head as you need more then novice skills to safely remove the mask rom to start with.

27c400 eproms are a pain to come by, BTW

 

[bluehedgehog91]

well... i'm screwed up... Will see if somebody wants to trade the board for something else...

Thanks!