Possible reason why some Metal Slug X carts die

[CloudGamerX]

Okay, so I was in a Skype conversation recently with HeavyMachineGun, and we were talking about Metal Slug. During our conversation, we were talking about how Metal Slug X carts are known to fail, yet copies of King of Fighters 98 with the same Altera MAX chip don't. So, we decided to take a look at our working copies of Metal Slug X and noticed something a little different compared to the scans present on MVS-Scans. So for starters, here is the scan for Metal Slug X on MVS-Scans:

If you notice, the Altera MAX chip has a serial number underneath the parts number. Keep note of the last 4 digits of that number, "9901". That is actually the manufacturing date, which stands for "1st week of 1999". Now here is a scan of King of Fighters 98, also from MVS-Scans:

Now, notice that the serial number is different. The last 4 digits on this is "9819", meaning this Altera MAX chip was manufactured on the 19th week of 1998. So what does this have to do with our copies of Metal Slug X? well, I took a picture of my Metal Slug X's PROG board, take a look at the Altera MAX chip...

The last 4 digits on this Altera MAX chip reads "9849", the 49th week of 1998. So what does this all mean? Well, integrated circuits like the Altera MAX chips always have a chance of manufacturing defects. So, it's quite possible that the reason why some Metal Slug X carts fail is because the 1999 Altera MAX chips came out of the factory defective. This would also explain why King of Fighters 98 carts haven't been reported to die as easily as Metal Slug X, despite sharing the same Altera MAX chip. So what do you guys think?

 

[HeavyMachineGoob]

Just to clarify on this, we both have Japanese Metal Slug X carts, which have the older Altera MAX chip shown above. Both carts work fine. I've had a Japanese Slug X cart years earlier and it worked fine too.

What we'd like to confirm here is what region or Altera MAX date code is on broken copies of Metal Slug X? We suspect it's the (later printed) English MSX carts that die frequently.

 

[RetroTechRewind]

This is interesting. I never thought to check date codes on the chips. Luckily (knocks on wood) my US copy of MSX is still alive and well. I'll check my cart today and post a pic of the board. Might be interesting to see the date codes of failed carts versus working ones.

I know from experience in the industry, that a lot of these kinds of chips can fail due to moisture getting inside the chip. When they're produced, a tiny bit of any kind of contaminate inside can cause an air pocket, or allow moisture inside the chip. Over the years, or even as short as a day or two, moisture builds up inside the chip. When the chip is heating up from the cart being on, the moisture inside can heat up enough to expand inside, and cracks the die of the chip itself, leading to failure.

This could most likely be the cause, as these kinds of failures are usually singled out to faulty batches of chips as you guys stated.

Awesome eye on the both of you! It will be interesting to see who's boards have what date codes.

 

[aha2940]

Funny, I have never seen a Metal Slug X cart die. I do have 4 KoF98 carts with dead Alteras, though.

 

[Hellfromabove]

I'll check mine over the weekend and post up the date code.

 

[BanishingFlatsAC]

Does putting the cart on a shelf and not playing it extend the life of it? Cause if so, they'll be alot of safe MSX carts out there.

 

[Tw3ek]

Does putting the cart on a shelf and not playing it extend the life of it? Cause if so, they'll be alot of safe MSX carts out there.

Schrodinger's MVS. It'll never get proven one way or the other though as those copies will never get played.

 

[BanishingFlatsAC]

Schrodinger's MVS. It'll never get proven one way or the other though as those copies will never get played.

Very true. Very true. It's such a pain removing it from the 4 acrylic cases I store them in.

 

[RetroTechRewind]

Very true. Very true. It's such a pain removing it from the 4 acrylic cases I store them in.

You also have to account for the gas mileage in your car on the way to the bank, when you have to grab it from the safety deposit box.

 

[HeavyMachineGoob]

Does putting the cart on a shelf and not playing it extend the life of it? Cause if so, they'll be alot of safe MSX carts out there.

Just think, collectards everywhere are preserving Metal Slug X AES from going extinct.

 

[Atro]

Never had a dead 98 or MSX.
However, I already had two Metal Slug 3 crapping on me.

I believe I still have them around. I'll check and post the Altera MAX manufacturing date.

 

[Xian Xi]

Date codes don't matter. I've repaired many dead MSX carts with no specific date code. Smkdan believed it was poor voltage regulation as the alteras are picky when the voltage is whacky.

 

[HeavyMachineGoob]

Never had a dead 98 or MSX.
However, I already had two Metal Slug 3 crapping on me.

I believe I still have them around. I'll check and post the Altera MAX manufacturing date.

Metal Slug 3 carts with the PROGLBA board use an SNK custom (NEO-SMA) to do P ROM decryption, not an Altera MAX chip.

Date codes don't matter. I've repaired many dead MSX carts with no specific date code. Smkdan believed it was poor voltage regulation as the alteras are picky when the voltage is whacky.

I see. All your dead MSX carts had varying date codes on the Altera MAX? How would one improve the voltage regulation?

 

[Xian Xi]

Metal Slug 3 carts with the PROGLBA board use an SNK custom (NEO-SMA) to do P ROM decryption, not an Altera MAX chip.



I see. All your dead MSX carts had varying date codes on the Altera MAX? How would one improve the voltage regulation?

I can't remember exactly what Dan said but it was quite involved from what I remember because iirc some pins use non 5v sources and in order to have them all within spec you'd have to regulate everything or something. I think he said that on ones that died he noticed the voltage readings were higher than they were supposed to be.

 

[Atro]

Metal Slug 3 carts with the PROGLBA board use an SNK custom (NEO-SMA) to do P ROM decryption, not an Altera MAX chip.

You are right. It's not an Altera MAX.
However, never a single MSX died on me. I'm tired of trying to find a good MVS MS3 that doesn't fried away too soon :/

 

[aha2940]

You are right. It's not an Altera MAX.
However, never a single MSX died on me. I'm tired of trying to find a good MVS MS3 that doesn't fried away too soon :/

Try getting an MS3 with a PROGBK1 board. Those last longer and are easy to repair/replace. I did that with my MS3 and kof98.

 

[Apocalypse]

I know from experience in the industry, that a lot of these kinds of chips can fail due to moisture getting inside the chip.

This is very interesting. I was given a lot of faulty arcade PCBs lately and was very surprised of the high amount of dead chips on them. I first thought it was bad powering but after repairing some of them I could see a pattern: all of them have Fujitsu chips!
I did some research online and it appeared that those Fujitsu ICs contain a compound inside that makes the hair thin wires between the die and the legs to corrode.
To continue my investigation I had a look at logs of repairs I've done a decade ago and was pleased to see I've been very thorough: I did take pictures (ok low quality but it was around 2005/2006). And by comparing them I could see the faulty chips I replaced 10 years ago were Fujitsu ones.
Even worse, I had to pack my games for several years, they were all 100% working at the time but when I unpacked them some were faulty again! Other Fujitsu chips had failed...
Concerning the boards I recently repaired, 100% of them had at least few bad Fujitsu chips.
I'm very tempted of replacing all the Fujitsu chips from my boards but some are 99% Fujitsu populated...

 

[RetroTechRewind]

This is very interesting. I was given a lot of faulty arcade PCBs lately and was very surprised of the high amount of dead chips on them. I first thought it was bad powering but after repairing some of them I could see a pattern: all of them have Fujitsu chips!
I did some research online and it appeared that those Fujitsu ICs contain a compound inside that makes the hair thin wires between the die and the legs to corrode.
To continue my investigation I had a look at logs of repairs I've done a decade ago and was pleased to see I've been very thorough: I did take pictures (ok low quality but it was around 2005/2006). And by comparing them I could see the faulty chips I replaced 10 years ago were Fujitsu ones.
Even worse, I had to pack my games for several years, they were all 100% working at the time but when I unpacked them some were faulty again! Other Fujitsu chips had failed...
Concerning the boards I recently repaired, 100% of them had at least few bad Fujitsu chips.
I'm very tempted of replacing all the Fujitsu chips from my boards but some are 99% Fujitsu populated...

Yeah it sounds simmilar to the whole "early 90's SMD capacitor" issue. Must have just been a few bad years for them. It's a shame too because there's a lot of games out there that are dead.



Also, my MSX carts' Altera has a 9901 date code. I played it awhile last night, just to bask in it's working glory