RGB Shifter
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whisper2053
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Here's the vid reposted for any who can't see the one in OP's post. To answer a few questions, this is a project that Jochen over at ArcadeForge is working on currently. The prototype testing just finished up, so what he does from here remains to be seen.
whisper2053
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From the way it was explained to me, sometimes RGB sources have the image on screen offset to the left or right. The shifter allows you to manually re-center the image if that is the case.
El Maricon Loco
Galford's Poppy Trainer,
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Actually I tweaked my 2030 using the SNES through scart/cmptr, after that everything through S-vid and BNC is offset a solid 1/4" - Just left it. LOL
Kid Panda
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Yea my neo does the same thing. Picture is centered through RGB but shifted with any other input.
skinny503
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So maybe it's just me, but why wouldn't your buy a extron rgb202 plus instead of attempting to reinvent the wheel? Maybe if he can build them for under the cost of the 202plus then yeah but we will see
http://m.ebay.com/itm/271421839367?nav=SEARCH
http://m.ebay.com/itm/271421839367?nav=SEARCH
purple
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I think extron adsp technology is different than this rgb shifter, it aims to move picture left or right only. Also i think this product will be more useful for european users with scart tv's, on the ebay link you posted shipping is 60$ international, don't you think its very expensive to spend 120$ to be able to shift picture left or right?. as there are other extron rgb's as low as 25$, so i too expect to buy rgb shifters at reasonable price.
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skinny503
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The 202plus not only does horizontal but vertical as well. Most users here are running scart for their RGB anyways so its right up our alley. As for the post, I used that for reference to show the product. $60 for International shipping seems to be the going rate on sending anything across the pond. As for your last question, no I dont think spending $120 (If your abroad) to center the picture not only horizontally but vertically so I can get the full use out of all my hardware. I have seen countless threads and youtube videos of people asking, complaining, and straight up bitching about what ever system being offset left,right,up, or down and this device will alleviate those problems.
Me personally, I would have no problem dropping the money as its a small amount compared to the amount of money I have dropped into my PVM, boards, Systems and modding for RGB, ect.
With that said if your only looking for left/right adjustment this new product might be up your ally! The price point and finished product will be the deciding factor!
Me personally, I would have no problem dropping the money as its a small amount compared to the amount of money I have dropped into my PVM, boards, Systems and modding for RGB, ect.
With that said if your only looking for left/right adjustment this new product might be up your ally! The price point and finished product will be the deciding factor!
Kyuusaku
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A digital display effectively operates the same as a CRT, compatibility will be a matter of the display's signal processing, just as it is with a CRT's analog signal processing circuits. In most cases digital displays are more flexible/forgiving because they aren't constrained to simple functions realizable with analog components.
Anyways, every display is calibrated to center images starting after a holdoff period once sync is triggered.
NTSC and PAL video line timing is close enough that the differences SHOULD be negligible, and all video should be approximately centered on any display, but some consoles/computers offset their active video slightly left or right of center, and also many TVs are calibrated off center too which exaggerates the incompatibility.
Arcade games actually do have different line timing because they aren't tied to broadcast standards.
What the cheap "shifter" device does in theory is delay sync approximately a line, adjustable with a potentiometer. They delay sync since it's much easier to delay a single pseudo-digital signal than it is to delay 3 analog video signals (would require a complex digital delay circuit). Unfortunately sync can't be perfectly delayed using a cheap RC integration circuits because the delay period is longer than the sync pulses themselves, so the "shifter" must create an artificial sync pulse triggered after the delay, which itself is triggered by the original sync. This artificial sync is completely malformed from the original sync since it can only do one kind of pulse. The original sync is modulated with special Vsync pulses too, and these will be distorted or even lost, but in most cases you can get away with it. Also as a consequence of delaying sync one line without delaying video, video is shifted upwards a line, but that's obviously a good tradeoff.
Analog "shifter" -- $3 of parts
A more flexible digital "shifter" -- $60 of parts + massive R&D, plus there's inherent signal degradation
Anyways, every display is calibrated to center images starting after a holdoff period once sync is triggered.
NTSC and PAL video line timing is close enough that the differences SHOULD be negligible, and all video should be approximately centered on any display, but some consoles/computers offset their active video slightly left or right of center, and also many TVs are calibrated off center too which exaggerates the incompatibility.
Arcade games actually do have different line timing because they aren't tied to broadcast standards.
What the cheap "shifter" device does in theory is delay sync approximately a line, adjustable with a potentiometer. They delay sync since it's much easier to delay a single pseudo-digital signal than it is to delay 3 analog video signals (would require a complex digital delay circuit). Unfortunately sync can't be perfectly delayed using a cheap RC integration circuits because the delay period is longer than the sync pulses themselves, so the "shifter" must create an artificial sync pulse triggered after the delay, which itself is triggered by the original sync. This artificial sync is completely malformed from the original sync since it can only do one kind of pulse. The original sync is modulated with special Vsync pulses too, and these will be distorted or even lost, but in most cases you can get away with it. Also as a consequence of delaying sync one line without delaying video, video is shifted upwards a line, but that's obviously a good tradeoff.
Analog "shifter" -- $3 of parts
A more flexible digital "shifter" -- $60 of parts + massive R&D, plus there's inherent signal degradation
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purple
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Well, i wonder what kind of result will I get if you use Hyper64 with Rgb Shifter and Scart Slg together to my samsung led tv? Picture quality seen on the video seems ok and its almost similar to mine. i have xrgb2plus but jiggling pixels problem annoying me a lot, gbs8220 handles it better and i personally like the way it smooths the picture on higher resolutions. I have a limited knowledge about how the tv itself handles the rgb signal, what does it mean if the image is not centered? the tv does have the low quality encoder? is there any lag introduced? How is the picture compared to others? Which one is better? rgb scart to extron rgb to tv?, rgb scart to rgb shiter to slg scart to tv?, may be jrok component to tv? or just get rid of them and have xrgb mini? those questions itching my mind. I'm crazy about Samurai Shodown 64 Warriors Rage and would like to enjoy it on my living room with friends.
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I would think a vertical one would be more useful since Midway games won't even be vertically centered on a normal TV. With the left of right you can at least still play the game. Any way to make a vertical one instead of horizontal?
Kyuusaku
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Using analog circuits not easily, it would require separating sync then recombining Hsync with a long delayed Vsync. For full control over positioning with valid sync signals you really need a digital video processor.
purple
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Also i noticed on the right side of the screen, black bar still stays. I mean when you turn the pot, left side moves to correct position but on the right side it passes the border and black bar is still there. So i think its impossible to fully scale the picture, but on the other video mario with crt it looking better.
whisper2053
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Not yet, but I can try and find out.
StealthLurker
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Yeah the DVDO Edge and VPs let you do whatever want... hori/vert shift, stretch, etc
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Isn't that thingy HDMI/Component only ?
SCART RGB is the most common source of RGB for older stuff.
StealthLurker
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People usually have another device in front of it that takes in analog RGB and outputs to component, vga or hdmi to feed the processor.
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whisper2053
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Update: I spoke with Jochen about the price. He mentioned a possible preorder discount of some kind, and is currently thinking of an end price of 39ish euro if that helps.