Why are people so damn scared of emulation?

[KK]

I mean, really? For all the DC and above systems, emulation isn't possible, and I wouldn't use it anyway. The only systems that are emulated are systems that are no longer in use (or barely, in the case of the N64).

I have well over 1000 ROMs for these systems:

Game Boy
Genesis
Impact (Capcom 3D arcade, such as Star Gladiator, SFEX, Rival Schools, etc.)
Master System (never use it though)
Mame (never use it either)
N64
Neo Geo
Nes (I have every NES game ever made)
NGPC
SNES
CPS-1
CPS-2
Plus KI arcade machine emulator.

So the way I see it, I have 2 options:

1. Pay $500 to get an AES and KOF98.

2. Use that $500 to buy 10 Dreamcast games, and play a perfect version of KOF98 on NeorageX, that also includes the MVS version, better options, etc.

Emulation doesn't affect arcades, because the whole point is you're playing other people in a social environment, and it also doesn't affect systems in which most of the sales are driven by collectability (Neo Geo). So lighten up, and get a life. And download a ROM or 2. You just might like it.

 

[NeoLord]

Nobody fears emulation, Kim. Some of us view emulation as a poor way to support the industry.

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NeoLord
Neo-News and much more!
http://neonews.cjb.net

[This message has been edited by NeoLord (edited April 16, 2001).]

 

[BioMotor_Unitron]

Hey, it would be easier for me to rob a bank that work for a living. Some things are just wrong, though.

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-BioMotor_Unitron
"Domo Arigato, Mr. Roboto!"

 

[NeoLord]

There's nothing wrong with classic emulation (i.e. old Arcade systems, SNES, etc.) but not when it pertains to a system that is still being supported by the parent company. If the system is still being supported, I'd rather purchase my software and own the actual hardware. Respect our decision to support the system and we'll respect your decision to support emulation.

[Edited for content]

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NeoLord
Neo-News and much more!
http://neonews.cjb.net

[This message has been edited by NeoLord (edited April 16, 2001).]

 

[BIG BEAR]

So basically what you're doing is knocking me for owning the 'REAL DEAL' and claiming the emu is better,is that it???
You know I always read that pathetic excuse about how expensive the system and a game costs and what you would do with the money but the fact is that you would'nt go out and purchase 10 DC games you'd purchase a bootleg CD filled with DC games because you have no home,meaning your deprived of ever knowing what it feels like to be dedicated and loyal to a great system.
It's okay for you to play your lil' emu but don't you dare start a thread knocking the original product! If not for the original product there would be no emulator!
I feel sorry for you because the feeling I get from tis hobby is one you'll never experience! It feels good up here!
-BB

 

[BioMotor_Unitron]

This should have been started in Unrelated Topics anyway, or probably the War Room, considering the route things will probably take.

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-BioMotor_Unitron
"Domo Arigato, Mr. Roboto!"

 

[Neo Rasa]

Kim you make everyone who uses emulation look bad, hell you didn't even space Kap Hwan properly for the Americanized translation

.

 

[LWK]

ITS A DISGRACE AND THE ILLEGALITY IS ANOTHER ISSUE, I BELEIVE THE REAL FANS BUY THE REAL PRODUCTS....

 

[NeoLord]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by BIG BEAR:
So basically what you're doing is knocking me for owning the 'REAL DEAL' and claiming the emu is better,is that it???
You know I always read that pathetic excuse about how expensive the system and a game costs and what you would do with the money but the fact is that you would'nt go out and purchase 10 DC games you'd purchase a bootleg CD filled with DC games because you have no home,meaning your deprived of ever knowing what it feels like to be dedicated and loyal to a great system.
It's okay for you to play your lil' emu but don't you dare start a thread knocking the original product! If not for the original product there would be no emulator!
I feel sorry for you because the feeling I get from tis hobby is one you'll never experience! It feels good up here!
-BB

I gain great satisfiaction from owning a Neo-Geo system. Of course, the mentality here seems to be somewhat flawed: some people seem to feel that downloading a ROM can be justified by a few trips to the arcade. If the system was 'dead' and had no source of income, the people who frequent here wouldn't be so hard on you emu freaks.

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NeoLord
Neo-News and much more!
http://neonews.cjb.net

[This message has been edited by NeoLord (edited April 16, 2001).]

 

[darkkyo]

depends on how u use emulation.
if you download a game, like it and buy it, then its another story

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The birth of humanity was fated to deny the divine destiny of the destinies...

 

[baller99]

i hate the people that say their "loyal" and shit to their favorite system and companies.
Are you kidding me?do you think some big wig billionaire in japan gives a shit if you buy a game or burn them?
ALMOST EVERYBODY IN ASIA PIRATES THEIR GAMES.
they have people selling burned dreamcast and playstation games on the streets of hong kong and malaysia, and im assuming all the other asians countries.Hell dont be surprised to see cops purcahsing a few for their kids.
You guys should stop with this nonsense.
Are these companies losing any money to emulation or pirating?no
In fact some companies encourage it
take for example the biggest software company out there.Microsoft.
They always leak out their major products(final releases) on ircs so people can try it out before its released, maybe review it, or try it on hardware.Of course they would never admit to this for stock price reasons.

Peter

 

[Neo Rasa]

Most people I talk to in Korea and other Asian countries end up having to purchased bootlegged/copied games because the real thing is far too expensive. Technically that's a shallow exscuse but when you have CD based games that have a starting price of $80-$130~US in some Asian countries $5~US for a copied game is the only option for some people.

HOWEVER:

People who don't live in areas where games are available for what they consider an average price have no exscuse to not pay for them. There's no reason for you to not exercise some self control despite what's available to you. I mean do you really NEED so many roms collection dust on your hard drive?

 

[Shuuchan]

Yup you got it down man Im so sure Sega didnt care one bit when ppl finally figured out how too burn DC games.
If they really didnt care, why dont they just post their new games on the net and then you can download them and burn'em.
Somehow I doubt companies like SNK were just rolling in the dough, and I dont care if they pirate games in Asia doesnt makew it right.

 

[Bufa]

okay, okay. give me a second to collect my thoughts. where to start...

Of course i have roms. I don't have as much money at my disposal as LWK, or some of you other hardcore gamers, and this is my only reason for my actions. While it may be the noble and moral thing to do, i can't afford it. Of course i feel a little guilty.

Still, don't put ROM owners and ROM distributors in the same category, they are two very different sorts of people. I detest emulation as much as other people. I don't endorse emulation or ROM distribution. but it's an effective alternative. it's not like that little guilt i get downloading a ROM will turn me into the shell of a person i once was.

I agree with people who say that ROMs hurt the producer. Of course it would. how much, that's a different story. For every copy of the KoF: '99 ROM owned by an SNK fan, SNK would have about $500 each. Minus the number who'd react by saying: "$500 for that? Phh."

Of course, making a PC conversion with like one extra option would have reaped a small fortune. (Because chances are, the game wouldn't be widely either.) I'd buy a KoF: Evolution PC-Port if I saw it lying on a shelf. I'd dance home, too. Maybe if the carts were more affordable as well. Such is life.

I don't have much of a choice. as Dog said back on the Orochinagi.com board, "the nearest KoF machine is 5 hours away. I'm going to play KoF now, see you in 11 hours." My local arcade was turned into a bookstore. It didn't even carry KoF 2000 anyway. The ROM is a convienient alternative for those who can stomach the small guilt.

Owning the system and carts would be great, but it'll never be a reality for me unless i win the lottery. Anyone that says "You retard. Go buy the cart!" has just found a more ccreative way to say "I'm richer than you! hah hah" based on a common interest.

*realises he's just been stating the bleeding obvious* bah.

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- Bufa [Site: Freakling]
The Baxendell Manouvre punishes the cheap.

[This message has been edited by Bufa (edited April 16, 2001).]

 

[Jet Black]

I think Roms don't make so much fun than the original, in addition it's illegal. But many people here in Germany think it's cheap, so we do must have this thing.

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See you, Space Cowboy...

 

[donkeyman]

Emulation of any System sucks. Its not the original thing it's "put in favourite system"
for poor.
Go buy reality!

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The path of the Ronin is long and hard

 

[Hide]

There is no right and wrong regarding this subject. Let's not indulge in this argument/debate anymore. Continuation would end up in flames.

Just my personal opinion.



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Please visit Singapore's Local Gaming scene.

www.gamersquare.com

 

[NSX-T]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Kim Kapwhan:
I mean, really? For all the DC and above systems, emulation isn't possible, and I wouldn't use it anyway. The only systems that are emulated are systems that are no longer in use (or barely, in the case of the N64).

I have well over 1000 ROMs for these systems:

Game Boy
Genesis
Impact (Capcom 3D arcade, such as Star Gladiator, SFEX, Rival Schools, etc.)
Master System (never use it though)
Mame (never use it either)
N64
Neo Geo
Nes (I have every NES game ever made)
NGPC
SNES
CPS-1
CPS-2
Plus KI arcade machine emulator.

So the way I see it, I have 2 options:

1. Pay $500 to get an AES and KOF98.

2. Use that $500 to buy 10 Dreamcast games, and play a perfect version of KOF98 on NeorageX, that also includes the MVS version, better options, etc.

Emulation doesn't affect arcades, because the whole point is you're playing other people in a social environment, and it also doesn't affect systems in which most of the sales are driven by collectability (Neo Geo). So lighten up, and get a life. And download a ROM or 2. You just might like it.

I just hate these kind of people. Emulation are for losers, down on their luck, really not capable of handing, not able to.... We give people who emulate and think it is great, a great pity statement IT IS ALRIGHT TO EMULATE, BIG GUY. Don't worry BIG GUY, when you enter back into your make-belief world and emulate sex every night, it will be perfect again, BIG GUY.

Moreover, try the real thing, it is that much better.

 

[Lou Gojira]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">depends on how u use emulation.
if you download a game, like it and buy it, then its another story

Couldn't have said it better myself Dark Kyo. I myself don't use emulation to play games I don't own, I will however use roms for screenshots when I write reviews on games that I do own. I'll also grab character portraits and screenshots to use some of the color schemes in Photo-shop (works like a charm. use that eye dropper and you've saved a kinds of hours in looking for that "perfect color" for a particular drawing).

As for my opinions on playing emulators as opposed to the real thing, I don't know, it's a big grey area. For example, if you can haul a copied rom to work or school instead of taking your cart or CD system (it goes without saying MVS units probably don't get moved around a lot), and play your favorite games like that, and show the games off to other people (hence drawing attention to SNK), I can't see the evil in that.

I do definitly see the evil in downloading games you never plan on buying though. And yes, this I think applies to SNK and games that they no longer stand to profit from. For example, I've had some comic art published, and after the initial lump of money I got for my efforts, I won't see another penny. But the thought of somebody, say for example, running my art through a xerox machine and handing out copies to his buddies, I'd feel ripped. This is stuff I've at times burned the midnight oil working on, passed up going out and doing things so I could meet a deadline for, and I'd know the folks that got this stuff for free wouldn't appreciate the effort I and the other people who worked on that particular book as much as somebody who paid hard earned money for it.

It's all about integrity and appreciation. If it was a very real possibility that a guy handing out free copies of my art would draw attention to future endeavors, that would be a different story. But that's sadly not the case with a lot of things that are copied, and that includes emulators.

That's in no way saying something like: "Unless you go broke, you're not a true fan of Neo Geo". But keep in mind that SNK never meant to break anybody's wallet with the system. It was originally a rental only system, but as more people wanted one, SNK cut the price by like 50% for a while. And, on top of that, released a CD system with the exact same games at a fraction of the cost. Again, this isn't and was never meant to be an elitist capitalist rich person's system (executive class anybody?). Hell, I'm a blue collar worker that sits in the lower to middle class tax bracket (the art thing is just a side gig). But, to enjoy games that are truly the best, I save up my money for carts, buy less expensive CD's, even get lucky and snag a bargain off of e-bay or something. There's plenty of viable options besides emulation for the games you like.

Now for the disclaimer: This wasn't meant as a flame or anything, just sharing opinions. Thanks!

 

[NeoLord]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by darkkyo:
depends on how u use emulation.
if you download a game, like it and buy it, then its another story

Two things:

1) I thought someone closed this thread?
2) My reply to darkkyo disappeared when this thread was re-opened to the public.

Anyway... like my deleted post said:

I have to agree with you, darkkyo. There's nothing wrong with trying a ROM before making a big purchase.

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NeoLord
Neo-News and much more!
http://neonews.cjb.net

[This message has been edited by NeoLord (edited April 16, 2001).]

 

[NeoLord]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Kim Kapwhan:
So the way I see it, I have 2 options:
1. Pay $500 to get an AES and KOF98.

2. Use that $500 to buy 10 Dreamcast games, and play a perfect version of KOF98 on
NeorageX, that also includes the MVS version, better options, etc.

So let me get this straight... the game is worth downloading, but not worth buying.
What a contradiction of words! lol

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NeoLord
Neo-News and much more!
http://neonews.cjb.net

[This message has been edited by NeoLord (edited April 16, 2001).]

 

[Mike Tham]

First of all, roms are illegal, no matter the age. The only legal rom to my knowledge is Zero Tolerance for Genesis. the developers allowed distribution as long as the rom is not tampered with. I am a big fan of emulation because I can get to play so many games on one system. Its great to play all the old games that I never bought or were on the other system.

Emulation is wrong and there is no way to justify it. Somewhere, some company or ppl have the rights to the game you are downloading. Emulation is free and it hurts companies.

On the other hand, if piracy wasn't rampant in Malaysia, the no of PSX owners would be only 1/10 of the no now. I own a Saturn and am proud to say that I own 10 originals. (and 70+ pirate). The fact of the matter is, if there is a cheaper alternative, ppl will go for it. The 10 originals are games that I really loved and I wanted to support the companies. (KOF 95, Grandia, VF2 etc)

I guess what I'm trying to say is telling ppl emulation is wrong is not going to solve anything. The only way to minimise it is to reduce the availability.

 

[Mouse_Master]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Kim Kapwhan:
I have well over 1000 ROMs for these systems:

Neo Geo
NGPC

OK, lets take a look at this really quick. You have an Emulator for the NGPC? So, does that mean, since it was not a dead system when you got the ROMs most likely, we can hold you accountable for its death in the USA?

Right here is where the ROMs are bad. The NGPC, barely out for more than a few months, and the ROM kiddies were already running wild with it. Was it the downfall of the system? Partially, yes, moreso than any other modern gaming system.

If KOF2000 had been dumped, can you imagine the impact that might have had on the Neo Geo itself? Thankfully it, and MS3 have not been dumped. And we got releases for those games on the home cart!

My personaly opinion? I see no problems with emulators, as long as they are used for playing games from dead systems. Atari 2600, NES, Genesis, fine. Hell, even the CPS2 because of the the suicide crap is fine. The DC or Naomi, no.

The Neo Geo is not a dead system, hence why you see the overall opinion of the population here as 'Anti-EMU.' The topic is best left as "Don't ask, don't tell" kind of thing. The hardcroe fans that populate the hobby see each person playing the ROMs as one less person who supported the system in a time of need, 1 less sale, another nail into SNK (Pick your territory)'s coffin.

Yes, I have NeoRageX, and also Neo ROMs. I made most of the screenshots here with it, can't play the games on it, have to use the real thing! I also have 2 MVS's, 2 Home Cart Systems, a Neo CD, and a MVS to Home Cart adapter. Also have bought every Neo game released over the past 3 years (except LB2, I wish I could have done that before then also, but I am just catching up now!). Overall, I have maybe 70 different games between the 3 formats.

 

[Caris Nautilus]

Emulators and Pirates do kill systems

The Famicon Disk system was killed by pirates in japan and asia, sicne the disks could be easliy and cheaply copyed, there was no copygaurd or mod chips back then.

The system was widley pirated, and it DID kill it.

 

[A_Sombra]

I own a few ROMs, mostly of SS games. I'm fairly aware that I'll never own an MVS... at the rate I piss money away at the arcade challenging people, well, I could buy an MVS by saving all that money and not going to arcades, but...

I'd rather play at the arcade... more varied opponents. Practise with the ROMs when I can't get to an arcade (laptops are nice that way). Occasionally challenge on the 'net (although NeoRagex is my emulator of choice for NeoGeo). If I bought an MVS cabinet and the games, then I'd never become a better player. And I'm far, far more interested in playing the games against people than in owning the cabinet and playing against the CPU.