All purpose UMA Thread (unmixed martial arts)

Poonman

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Not a parody so much as a companion thread to Wesley's.
Talk about your favorite fighters, living or dead, post youtubes of them doing crazy hardcore shit, discuss their philosophies on training and life in general.


Lets talk about the lesser known fighting styles like Silat, Chinese boxing, and other shit I don't know about and am too lazy to look up.

Lets hear about those dudes who go up in the mountains and don't come down until they can smash boulders with their hands and throw hadokens and shit.

I want to hear about commandos from rough assed countries with names you can't even pronounce turning their bodies into weapons and killing machines, motherfuckers who jump through glass shirtless out of high windows, then pull the broken glass out of their necks and shoulders before fucking eating it.

Go ahead and post vids of sexy TKD goddesses like Chloe Bruce or that badass Lateef Crowder(SP?) As I'm sure there's still stuff I haven't seen before.


This thread is probably gonna flop but if it doesn't it would be nice if this became a crown jewel of martial badassery on a forum about a fighting game console that nobody talks about anymore.

I'll contribute if you guys do. =)
 

SonGohan

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Hey remember Best of the Best? That was a pretty cool movie.
 

Poonman

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Hey remember Best of the Best? That was a pretty cool movie.

Do I know the Best of the Best? Yeah.....they're posting in this thread, my nicca!


Srsly tho....I was 12 when I last saw it....was it the one with the Korean dude wearing an eyepatch and he was doing katas up in a snowy mountain barefooted and shit?


I remember part 2...it was a nice, feelgood, movie.
I should get together with my old Korean buddies, get a case of beer and start watching these all over again.


Thanks for the reminder.
 

MilkManX

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Awesome!

I am all about full contact knockdown Karate and K-1

Favorites

Andy Hug

Joko Ninomiya

Kenji Midori

Willie Williams

Its a shame it has really died down in popularity these days.

If you have netflix you can watch "Fighting Black Kings" which is a documentary about the 1974 World Open Kyokushin tournament.

Dolph Lungren fought in a later world tournament and also won titles for Sweden.

I do Enshin Karate which was developed by Joko Ninomiya and has an annual tournament in Denver called the Sabaki Challenge.
 

SPINMASTER X

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As of late I've had this crazy obsession with Korean martial arts and artists. I train capoeira and it's mainly a kicking art but we don't have the foot control that many Tae Kwon Do artists have. I really respect that.

My favorite guy to watch is Tan Tao Liang. His parents are Chinese but he was born in Korea and is a TKD expert. He was in a lot of kung fu movies from the 70's. I had always thought he was a northern Kung fu artist but he was a Korean TKD user!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkgPqib2wWk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0Z0huf1tqY

many will write off TKD as just fancy footwork and I did myself until I watched a friend of mine kick a bag. The speed and amount of power he had in his feet was astounding and I found myself humbled.
 

Poonman

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One of the greatest no doubt.

Just heartbreaking how strong he was in the face of terminal cancer but he never slowed down. He died in August, yet his last fight was in July and a month before that he was fighting a younger and very dangerous Mirko Filipovic...made no difference to him, he still outclassed crocop pretty handily.

Man, that was an era of giants....
 

SonGohan

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many will write off TKD as just fancy footwork.

It kind of is. It's more flash than substance, which is still cool imo. It's always cool to watch crazy shit like the video joe posted. However, kickboxing is where fighters use their legs for, well, fighting.
 

Maury V.

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I've never seen nor heard of Andy Hug but DAMN he was a beast! I just got some new motivation. :)

Oh yeah since we're on topic, I got in an argument with one of my students this week on his complete ignorance and disrespect to the martial arts community (I know I shouldn't have done this but hear me out). He does BJJ and we had a good talk about each others styles and I showed him some respect. What made me lose my respect for him was he said that boxing isn't fighting. I asked him why he said that and he said "Boxing requires you to stand. You don't fight standing up". I told him most fights require you TO stand up and move around. Fights can be done on the ground too but a majority of them require you to stand up. What's really messed up about this is he said he did boxing before BJJ. I can understand switching styles is good and all but you don't just disrespect the sport because you suck at it.

Granted a GOOD BJJ fighter can beat a boxer but a GOOD boxer can rip a BJJ fighter to shreds. He kept going on about telling me to bring my "kung fu, boxing, and aikido friends to our dojo" and saying stupid shit about how BJJ is the supreme style martial arts and NO OTHER style can beat it. I broke my own rule by arguing with idiots but he really did piss me off with his total lack of respect. I would like to witness him getting his ass kicked by someone that DOESN'T do BJJ or MMA.
 

SonGohan

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I've never seen nor heard of Andy Hug but DAMN he was a beast! I just got some new motivation. :)

Oh yeah since we're on topic, I got in an argument with one of my students this week on his complete ignorance and disrespect to the martial arts community (I know I shouldn't have done this but hear me out). He does BJJ and we had a good talk about each others styles and I showed him some respect. What made me lose my respect for him was he said that boxing isn't fighting. I asked him why he said that and he said "Boxing requires you to stand. You don't fight standing up". I told him most fights require you TO stand up and move around. Fights can be done on the ground too but a majority of them require you to stand up. What's really messed up about this is he said he did boxing before BJJ. I can understand switching styles is good and all but you don't just disrespect the sport because you suck at it.

Granted a GOOD BJJ fighter can beat a boxer but a GOOD boxer can rip a BJJ fighter to shreds. He kept going on about telling me to bring my "kung fu, boxing, and aikido friends to our dojo" and saying stupid shit about how BJJ is the supreme style martial arts and NO OTHER style can beat it. I broke my own rule by arguing with idiots but he really did piss me off with his total lack of respect. I would like to witness him getting his ass kicked by someone that DOESN'T do BJJ or MMA.

Sounds like that dude is drinking the Gracie kool aid, which was pretty much true in the 90s. However, if you teach a good boxer takedown defense, a BJJ guy is pretty much snuffed. What makes BJ Penn so good is his boxing. His boxing is so insane he beats the shit out of people without using his BJJ, which he's a master at as well (I mean, why use BJJ if you're good enough to stand and box the shit out of somebody?) That's why MMA is so popular today.

I digress, since it's not the topic of the thread. However, there's disrespectful people in all martial arts. If I had to pick one style to stick with, without doing MMA, it would either be kickboxing or wrestling.
 

Rassilon

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I do Enshin Karate which was developed by Joko Ninomiya and has an annual tournament in Denver called the Sabaki Challenge.

I remember those! are they still going on? I thought they stopped a long time ago...

My school back in CO also held a semi-annual tournament called Kyuk-too-ki. We did once a year in denver and once in Boulder. We saw a bunch of the same fighters who did Sabaki.
They got less and less profitable though, so we stopped back around 95 or 96 i think.

I studied mostly kungfu, but my school also taught taekwondo/tangsoodo and hapkido.

It kind of is. It's more flash than substance, which is still cool imo. It's always cool to watch crazy shit like the video joe posted. However, kickboxing is where fighters use their legs for, well, fighting.
No, traditional taekwondo is certainly not flash over substance. Ive seen a good taekwondo practitioner absolutely destroy a muaythai boxer.
Im not saying its better than anything else, but traditional TKD is very serious. Modern TKD is more about the point sparring and thus focuses on speed over power, so many people make incorrect assumptions on TKD as a whole...
 

SonGohan

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No, traditional taekwondo is certainly not flash over substance. Ive seen a good taekwondo practitioner absolutely destroy a muaythai boxer.
Im not saying its better than anything else, but traditional TKD is very serious. Modern TKD is more about the point sparring and thus focuses on speed over power, so many people make incorrect assumptions on TKD as a whole...

I'm not saying it's not serious. As a fighting style, it's just not up there. And the kickboxer must've been real, real bad if he lost to TKD, because even a basic clinch will render TKD useless. Of course, there's always that "lucky shot," but as a whole, I definitely believe kickboxing to be a superior fighting style to TKD, and that's not taking anything away from TKD, it's history, and it's seriousness. I still love watching TKD, too.
 

Average Joe

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I find it hard to get seriously behind any martial art that puts too much emphasis on one part of the body for attack; definitely prefer the idea of using whatever you can, whenever you can to fight back with.

The concept of "balance" feels more ideal.

Too much emphasis on one aspect of the body will naturally lead to neglect in another.

That's not to say I don't respect those who perfect their art, even if it goes against my personal belief, because it's simply just that; my personal belief on the subject of totality.
 
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Rassilon

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I'm not saying it's not serious. As a fighting style, it's just not up there. And the kickboxer must've been real, real bad if he lost to TKD, because even a basic clinch will render TKD useless. Of course, there's always that "lucky shot," but as a whole, I definitely believe kickboxing to be a superior fighting style to TKD, and that's not taking anything away from TKD, it's history, and it's seriousness. I still love watching TKD, too.

so, basically what you are saying is that you dont know jack shit about TKD.
traditional TKD IS a serious fighting style (for stand up fighting, as they usually dont have much/any focus on grappling).

Trad TKD can be just as capable vs. Muaythai (or any other sport focused martial art). Obviously its up to the individual fighter, but its not an inherently inferior style.
 

SonGohan

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so, basically what you are saying is that you dont know jack shit about TKD.
traditional TKD IS a serious fighting style (for stand up fighting, as they usually dont have much/any focus on grappling).

Trad TKD can be just as capable vs. Muaythai (or any other sport focused martial art). Obviously its up to the individual fighter, but its not an inherently inferior style.

I know jack shit? It's satisfying to see you get so offended by my beliefs, which I'm not even trying to pass off as fact. I've seen plenty of professional TKD fights (in person, and on the internet), and my best friend has been practicing TKD for the past 15 years, who is absolutely nuts about it. We talk about styles and fights all the time, and he's brought way more to the argument than "uh, traditional is so much different than point-sparring."

Also, it's so blatantly obvious that it's up to the individual fighter. Everybody has the capability to win or lose anything, but when you sit down and look at theory, concepts, and watching matches where both are combined, it's easy to formulate an opinion, and my opinion is TKD isn't as good as kickboxing. I definitely believe it to be a flashy style, whose roots in actual applicable fighting isn't as strong as others.

If you're still offended by what I say, pen it in your dear diary.
 

Poonman

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stupid shit about how BJJ is the supreme style martial arts and NO OTHER style can beat it.

I couldn't agree more, friend.

But that line of thinking not only comes from sipping Gracie kool-aid like Wes suggests, but is also perpetuated by all these revolving door dojos in north america where a total gimp or lardass can get a black belt in two years without ever getting into an actual fight with someone.
 

Rassilon

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I know jack shit? It's satisfying to see you get so offended by my beliefs, which I'm not even trying to pass off as fact. I've seen plenty of professional TKD fights (in person, and on the internet), and my best friend has been practicing TKD for the past 15 years, who is absolutely nuts about it. We talk about styles and fights all the time, and he's brought way more to the argument than "uh, traditional is so much different than point-sparring."

Also, it's so blatantly obvious that it's up to the individual fighter. Everybody has the capability to win or lose anything, but when you sit down and look at theory, concepts, and watching matches where both are combined, it's easy to formulate an opinion, and my opinion is TKD isn't as good as kickboxing. I definitely believe it to be a flashy style, whose roots in actual applicable fighting isn't as strong as others.

If you're still offended by what I say, pen it in your dear diary.
i'll do that.
Though Im not particularly offended (as i dont even train in TKD anymore), merely attempting to illuminate your ignorance.

The problem is, you were speaking as to pass your opinion off as fact (whether intentionally or not).
Statements like "as a fighting style its not up there" and "its flash over substance.... kickboxing is where they use their legs for fighting" are pure bull.
As far as just "using their legs for fighting", id put TKD over muaythai, as TKD focuses a lot more on kicks (and on more types of kicks), vs muaythai where you focus on just a few kicks plus knees/elbows and basic punches.

In theory, i might put TKD "above" muaythai/kickboxing, based on TKD having a wider array of techniques. But theory always fails to account for the individual, and because of that its rather stupid to try to claim superiority/inferiority of an entire style.

TKD's roots were, however, every bit as combat oriented than muaythai, maybe even more so based on muaythai/kickboxing's focus on being a sport, and you are clearly not giving it enough credit (or research?).

I personally prefer various styles of kungfu an taichi chuan over TKD or muaythai, but i dont try to say they are "better".

I do like training in muaythai though, as it is a killer workout. I think id get bored if it was all i did though.
 

Rassilon

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I couldn't agree more, friend.

But that line of thinking not only comes from sipping Gracie kool-aid like Wes suggests, but is also perpetuated by all these revolving door dojos in north america where a total gimp or lardass can get a black belt in two years without ever getting into an actual fight with someone.
yea, the McDojos are great...
i dont like to bash any specific style of martial art, but i cant help but reach for a sip of the haterade when it comes to those places.

There is an asian festival in columbus OH every year, and there is always 2-3 McDojos doing "demonstrations".
(we also get excellent people like Master Chen Bing doing taichi as well, so its well worth going to).
 

Spike Spiegel

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many will write off TKD as just fancy footwork and I did myself until I watched a friend of mine kick a bag. The speed and amount of power he had in his feet was astounding and I found myself humbled.

Until someone rushed in and did a leg take-down and broke his arm.
 

SonGohan

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i'll do that.
Though Im not particularly offended (as i dont even train in TKD anymore), merely attempting to illuminate your ignorance.

The problem is, you were speaking as to pass your opinion off as fact (whether intentionally or not).

I never ONCE tried to pass it off as fact. The problem is that you came in, were offended by what I said, and then tried to argue with me (which is hilarious, since in trying to argue with me, you brought up, oh, well NOTHING to defend TKD). Read the first thing I said:

It kind of is. It's more flash than substance, which is still cool imo.

Notice the "imo." Please don't try and plead ignorance of commonly used acronyms. And in all over many of my posts in this thread I use phrases such as "I definitely believe," "imo," and even "my opinion."

Statements like "as a fighting style its not up there" and "its flash over substance.... kickboxing is where they use their legs for fighting" are pure bull. As far as just "using their legs for fighting", id put TKD over muaythai, as TKD focuses a lot more on kicks (and on more types of kicks), vs muaythai where you focus on just a few kicks plus knees/elbows and basic punches.

It's definitely not bull. You can disagree with it, but try to bring some facts to the discussion. Muay Thai uses their legs far more effectively, and if you've ever been caught in a clinch on the receiving end of knees, you'd understand what I'm talking about. Muay Thai also emphasizes leg kicks, which takes away a TKD practitioners entire arsenal. TKD has more types of kicks, but I've always been a firm believer of quality over quantity. And I'll reiterate once again, TKD has no answer for a clinch.

In theory, i might put TKD "above" muaythai/kickboxing, based on TKD having a wider array of techniques. But theory always fails to account for the individual, and because of that its rather stupid to try to claim superiority/inferiority of an entire style.

This right here blows my mind, because if there's anything I feel you can't argue, it's the theory comparing the two. TKD doesn't have a wider array of techniques. They have more kicks, yes, I'll agree, but Muay Thai makes way more use of their knees, elbows, punches, and their devastating clinch. It boggles my mind that you would say this. I do agree that it's still up to individual execution in the fight that matters. There's nothing wrong with having an opinion, and a preference of one style over the other.

TKD's roots were, however, every bit as combat oriented than muaythai, maybe even more so based on muaythai/kickboxing's focus on being a sport, and you are clearly not giving it enough credit (or research?).

This again boggles my mind that you try and argue this. TKD, by it's own very essence, is a limiting fighting style. That's not saying it's not effective for what it is, but in combat you want to have more tools at your disposal, and Muay Thai clearly has more tools. So to say it's roots are more grounded in combat than Muay Thai is hilarious. It's even more hilarious that you're going to try and argue against Muay Thai on being a sport (which is stupid, because both styles are spots). The ignorant thing to take away from this is that I'm not giving TKD any credit (or "enough" credit, as you're saying). I recognize and respect it for what it is, and I have a clear preference over it with a fighting style I personally believe to be more effective.

If this puts your panties in a bunch, why don't we just step outside? Bring your TKD with you :p

I personally prefer various styles of kungfu an taichi chuan over TKD or muaythai, but i dont try to say they are "better".

Yeah, you're saying you personally prefer them. Which is what I'm saying. Crazy that I'm able to read what you're saying, I wonder why you can't do the same with me. My English is pretty good, and I think my writing is easy to follow.

I do like training in muaythai though, as it is a killer workout. I think id get bored if it was all i did though.

That's why there's mixed martial arts. In fact, this exact argument is what spawned MMA. The answer is that to be the best fighter, you're going to have to be the best at all aspects of the fight. This includes TKD, MT, BJJ, wrestling, boxing.
 
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MilkManX

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Yeah the Sabaki Challenge still happens every year in Denver and the Capitol Sabaki every year in D.C.

There is also the summer Sabaki in Japan.

A style is a style. It is all in how you apply it.

Sure I would say some TKD is bad and point oriented but there is alot of bad Karate,Boxing,BJJ,MMA and even Muay Thai schools.

Best thing is to find someplace that is no nonsense and learn.

Prove it in sparring.

Keyboards do not win fights.
 

Maury V.

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Sounds like that dude is drinking the Gracie kool aid, which was pretty much true in the 90s. However, if you teach a good boxer takedown defense, a BJJ guy is pretty much snuffed. What makes BJ Penn so good is his boxing. His boxing is so insane he beats the shit out of people without using his BJJ, which he's a master at as well (I mean, why use BJJ if you're good enough to stand and box the shit out of somebody?) That's why MMA is so popular today.

I digress, since it's not the topic of the thread. However, there's disrespectful people in all martial arts. If I had to pick one style to stick with, without doing MMA, it would either be kickboxing or wrestling.

When I study martial arts, I look at the advantages as well as the disadvantages to using certain styles. For example, if I were to go against a boxer, I would use something OTHER than boxing cause chances are, I coudln't out box him. I would also look at my setting too. If I studied BJJ and I were to get into a bar fight, I wouldn't use 'ground n' pound', I would use something else; ground n' pound isn't exactly ideal in cramped spaces.

To stay on topic, one of my favorite styles is aikido. While not deadly aesthetically, it can still take someone down and give a fighter a run in for their money if they're pretty damn good at it.
 

BigFred

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TKD vs Muay Thai? I hate this argument. I guess there's pro's and cons to both arts. TKD, traditionally compromises balance in order to deal damage. Precision is excellent however and the standard Side Kick is arguably the best kick in TKD (No not a fucking 540 Wheel, Snap Kick, Roundhouse etc). It's hard to defend against regardless of what you've practised. Your saving grace is that if you recover from the kick, the TKD stylist will more than likely be put completely off balance.

TKD kicks don't harm the stylist one bit, except for the balance side of things. All kicks in TKD concentrate on hitting the opponent with the heel or the ball of the foot, not the fucking shin. This is partially the reason why there are no "older" Muay Thai practioners. The shin is used not only as a weapon but as a guard as well. It literally fucks you up in the long-run.

TKD has a very poor defense and teaches very poor defenses, the Muay Thai stance is by far superior. At close range, TKD stylists will use knees and elbows as well. Lol. It's not drilled into them like in Muay Thai but it's like the biggest argument against TKD...

For entertainment purposes, watch some vids of the Korean Tigers on youtube.

Enough about that. I practised Wing Chun Kung Fu for about 1 year and can see the advantages of such a style. Wing Chun is completely based on feeling out your opponent and counter-attacking at exactly the same time. It's theory driven. Practitioners esentially protect an imaginary line running vertically through the center of your body. All your vital organs run through this line. Training involves practising "Chi Sao" with multiple opponents. This is done at very close range. After 3 months, you can literally feel out attacks and counter attack accordingly. It's unlike any other martial art out there.

The art does not compromise balance whatsoever. There are NO kicks above waist height in Wing Chun and punches are designed with short range power in mind. They're designed to be driven through your opponent. But like every martial art it has it's weakness. The main argument against Wing Chun is that a stylist kept out of "trapping range" can easily be dealt with.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXg0FFREzcg
Here's a nice vid of Chi Sao
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaP1X-lEtgc&feature=related
And a vid of the legend at a Chi Sao demonstration
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S_Yfndw_j4&feature=related
 
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