!Arcade!'s Irritating Maze Project...

[Makismo]

I remember reading about this a long time ago but I have nver seen one of these. I hard that !Arcade! made a version of it. Does anyone have a picture of it handy? Also, does anyone have one in their collection and what would one of these cost if you were to get it today? I heard that 10 were made of the NGF version but I know nothing about the !Arcade! version. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks for your time.

 

[SuperGun]

The Irritating Maze Home Cart History

I remember reading about this a long time ago but I have nver seen one of these. I hard that !Arcade! made a version of it. Does anyone have a picture of it handy? Also, does anyone have one in their collection and what would one of these cost if you were to get it today? I heard that 10 were made of the NGF version but I know nothing about the !Arcade! version. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks for your time.

I would be happy to contribute what little I know about this subject to the thread. Keep in mind however that this was 5 or 6 years ago so my recollection of the facts may be a little bit inaccurate.

NGF made 2 or 3 "runs" of home I-maze carts. I think their first run was 4 and it came with a dedicated trackball unit which they put together. They then had a couple other runs of maybe 10 or so as you said which were a little less expensive but also came with less.

However, soon after "controversy" stirred up regarding the "functionality" of Irritating Maze on a home system. I cannot provide too much information on this because TO THIS DAY we have yet to get any respectable confirmation either way, but allegedly the game required a special bios, which without it, it wouldn't work. If you do some searching either here or on the mailing list you may find some posts were I discussed this in further detail.

At around this time, Ray Young & Arcade Industries allegedly made their own I-Maze home cart version. I am not sure how many were made and/or sold, heck it is possible that they only built one of them. However a "scandal" soon followed. (hey what did you expect afterall the NeoGeo is known for drama) The scandal was that "some people" (I will assume it was NGF but I am not 100% certain) accused Ray Young of "lieing". They said that it was "impossible" for anyone to get it to work. Ray then actually filmed a VIDEO of his game working on the NEO and provided this video for view on his site. (anyone still have a copy maybe?) NGF then responded to that by claiming that the VIDEO was "faked" and rigged together with some fancy filmography tactics! They claimed that the movements of the persons hand over the trackball while they played did not match the on-screen movement of the character. It was their position that the television in the back was actually hooked up to an MVS I-Maze boardset & cartridge being played by someone off screen and the foreground was just a person playing with a non connected trackball.

Nobody ever confirmed or denied any of this because as far as I know, I don't know anybody who ever bought or had the Ray Young version of I-Maze and if their was they never came forward to tell us. But I guess someday eventually we will know the truth.

In the end, I think that maybe RAZOOLA could most likely analyze the "specialized?" I-maze MVS boardset & cartridge and perhaps tell us the 100% facts about the entire thing as well as maybe even make I-Maze carts fully playable in the next Uni-Bios revision on our Neos?

Regards,
Billy Pitt

 

[chris1]

I always wondered what this was/have anything to do with the subject....(((came with a dedicated trackball unit))



Listed here in MVS cart Pics as Full Kit...(As this is not a Full Kit)

http://www.neo-geo.com/snk/pics/mvs.html

 

[Makismo]

If !Arcade! did make a run, who has it? I have never heard anyone coming forward who has one. I think that Big AL from our boards had a NGF Joystick Version of the game but I think he sold it for 700 pounds which is a lot of money. I know that is what he was asking for it but I am not sure if he sold it or not. He said that he had to pay a lot for it. He did have a pretty huge collection.

I have been told that NGF made a run of 10 trackball version of the game but I don't know how big their joystick version run was. Some people have said that the trackball version didn't even work. I am not so sure about that though. There was some talk about this in the past concerning Alicia Barone (spelling?). Some say that she said that SNK didn't give their approval for the project but NGF says otherwise. NGF also said that they did have the rights because Playmore took them to court over this and other things. What actually happened in the courtroom will never be known. I wish we knew the rest of this puzzle.

 

[Orpheus]

Arcades version was NOT a MVS to home cart conversion. It was basically a very nicely done super nova type rig.
Only a few were probably made and sold which would be why you don't here people bragging. Not like thats bad thing.

 

[ki_atsushi]

However, soon after "controversy" stirred up regarding the "functionality" of Irritating Maze on a home system. I cannot provide too much information on this because TO THIS DAY we have yet to get any respectable confirmation either way, but allegedly the game required a special bios, which without it, it wouldn't work. If you do some searching either here or on the mailing list you may find some posts were I discussed this in further detail.

Yep, the irritating maze kit comes with a MV-1B, which if i'm not mistaken, is the only MVS motherboard compatible with this game (because of the custom BIOS), and it can't even play other MVS games! Why SNK had to make it that way is beyond me.

 

[Big Bruno]

Well,

There were only a Few made, in fact if I recall somewhere around 3 were made. It was done mainly as at a request for a Customer who spent alot of money to have it done exculsively to replace their Non working freaked version. Then a few more were made after that person gave the ok to let the other collectors who wanted one have one. Something similar was also done for the gambeling games as well. If I remember right the trackball used both Joysticks port on the Neo when it was hooked up.

However the whole Idea was to be implemented into the Neo Home System !Arcade! was going to develope. there was a extra port that was going to be designed on the back specifically for the Trackball controller. But since the demand for the system at the price needed for profit never materlized it was never made. Other then the Plastic shell you saw in the AD and a Working Proto board with the 2 slots on it Wired togethered.

and no it was not a super nova type rig. On if it was just a bios hack or other wiring was done on the Inside of the Neo I don't know, never looked inside the unit.

just to finish up the story.

 

[Lee Gray]

I always wondered what this was/have anything to do with the subject....(((came with a dedicated trackball unit)) nice stuff on your colection page, love the old coca cola stuff

plus nice shrine bruno. i thought i check out what ppl have i like the neo world mat



Listed here in MVS cart Pics as Full Kit...(As this is not a Full Kit)

http://www.neo-geo.com/snk/pics/mvs.html

nice stuff on your colection page, love the old coca cola stuff......

plus nice shrine bruno. i thought i check out what ppl have i like the neo world mat

 

[Razoola]

There is no way an original IR will work with the normal NeoGeo or AES bios unless there is some built in mode that is accessable via debug dips or something (its possible there is an option in there). The only way they could have got the game to work is to patch the P ROMs to use the normal bios alloation of the NeoGeo ports or adding the IR bios code into the P ROMs and calling it instead of the Bios. This is very posible if you know what your doing.

I'll see if I can add IR support to the next unibios release though there is no way I can test this myself as I don't own the game or trackball.

Raz

 

[ki_atsushi]

Yes! That would be friggin' sweet! Raz, you're awesome.

 

[SuperGun]

Beta Testing Unibios & Irritating Maze

I'll see if I can add IR support to the next unibios release though there is no way I can test this myself as I don't own the game or trackball.

Raz

Hey Raz,

I have the cartridge and trackball and I would be more then happy to test it out for you if/when you program a temp bios to test it with. Maybe we could get a group of 4 or 5 beta testers such as myself who can also assist. We can then report bugs and glitches back to you for you to implement into the revision updates for us to download every so often until we get it perfect and then you can add it to the next unibios revision once it is ready.

Also a few tech questions for you (or anyone else who may know).

For anyone here who may have one of the dedicated I-Maze MVS boardsets, can we maybe dump the BIOS rom so we can have a look at it? I am curious as to what is different in there. Also this may assist us in this process.

Also, is "creating" an I-Maze specific MVS boardset as simple as replacing the bios or is there other circuitry that varies? Furthermore, can this be done on a HOME system as well? (obviously you would need to connect a trackball but for the most part I would assume you could re-assign all 6 trackball wires to to pin-outs on the joystick port). Example:

Player UP -- Trackball Y-DIR
Player DOWN -- Trackball Y-CLK
Player LEFT --Trackball X-DIR
Player RIGHT -- Trackball X-CLK
Ground -- Ground
+5 -- available on a joystick port? if not external I guess.

Lastly, besides getting it to work "PERIOD", what about the feasibility of getting it to work withOUT a trackball but rather with a joystick? The "alleged" (as of yet unconfirmed) NGF "econo joystick version" which came out a few years back and claimed to function 100% on a home system with a normal joystick. Is this "possible" Raz or completely impossible? Just curious on this one.

Regards,
Billy Pitt

 

[Makismo]

Hey Raz,

I have the cartridge and trackball and I would be more then happy to test it out for you if/when you program a temp bios to test it with. Maybe we could get a group of 4 or 5 beta testers such as myself who can also assist. We can then report bugs and glitches back to you for you to implement into the revision updates for us to download every so often until we get it perfect and then you can add it to the next unibios revision once it is ready.

Also a few tech questions for you (or anyone else who may know).

For anyone here who may have one of the dedicated I-Maze MVS boardsets, can we maybe dump the BIOS rom so we can have a look at it? I am curious as to what is different in there. Also this may assist us in this process.

Also, is "creating" an I-Maze specific MVS boardset as simple as replacing the bios or is there other circuitry that varies? Furthermore, can this be done on a HOME system as well? (obviously you would need to connect a trackball but for the most part I would assume you could re-assign all 6 trackball wires to to pin-outs on the joystick port). Example:

Player UP -- Trackball Y-DIR
Player DOWN -- Trackball Y-CLK
Player LEFT --Trackball X-DIR
Player RIGHT -- Trackball X-CLK
Ground -- Ground
+5 -- available on a joystick port? if not external I guess.

Lastly, besides getting it to work "PERIOD", what about the feasibility of getting it to work withOUT a trackball but rather with a joystick? The "alleged" (as of yet unconfirmed) NGF "econo joystick version" which came out a few years back and claimed to function 100% on a home system with a normal joystick. Is this "possible" Raz or completely impossible? Just curious on this one.

Regards,
Billy Pitt

We shall see...

 

[Razoola]

The IR bios is already dumped and has been in mame for a few years now. It should be possible to do both a trackball and joystick version but using a joystick ruins the game totally. I sopose you'll only need to worry about the trackball and buttons yes?

Getting this to work should not be that hard but I need some more information regarding the actual trackball etc. Looking the the picture in this thread I take it player 1 and 2 share the same trackball yes? Also I'm soposeing it simply connects to the 1up joystick port only? Also if I do this I would only worry about making sure the joystick and buttons work and I won't bother about the test mode hardware stuff thats in the original IR bios. All thats needed is making sure the game is playable yes?

Raz

 

[Makismo]

The IR bios is already dumped and has been in mame for a few years now. It should be possible to do both a trackball and joystick version but using a joystick ruins the game totally. I sopose you'll only need to worry about the trackball and buttons yes?

Getting this to work should not be that hard but I need some more information regarding the actual trackball etc. Looking the the picture in this thread I take it player 1 and 2 share the same trackball yes? Also I'm soposeing it simply connects to the 1up joystick port only? Also if I do this I would only worry about making sure the joystick and buttons work and I won't bother about the test mode hardware stuff thats in the original IR bios. All thats needed is making sure the game is playable yes?

Raz

You will NEVER pull it off, Raz! There is no way you can do it! You'll never make it!

Anyway, an Irritating Maze Joystick Version does exist already you know. However, you would have to know programming code of the actual game to make it work. You may think you know what you are doing but lets see if you can do it. I have my doubts though. Why don't you do an MVS or AES version of Zintrick, Crossed Swords 2, and Ironclad instead? Now that would be useful. It would be hard to figure out how to turn CD audio into regular Neo Geo audio - if that is possible. I bet you wouldn't be up for the task. Do you take my dare?

 

[Orpheus]

You will NEVER pull it off, Raz! There is no way you can do it! You'll never make it!
Do you take my dare?

Your a fuckin kook.
Guess never touching a naked female titty will do that to a guy.

 

[Razoola]

lol I got to laugh but your post is a little late as I have only read in now after already adding joystick support

After a couple of hours of poking around Iritating Maze is playable with unibios using joystick (enabled via cheat). Its quite hard to control though and I also had to add button B and C to control speed. For example joystick with no button pressed and it moves slow. If you hold down button B it moves faster and if you hold down button C its faster still. Its not pretty but it works and I have completed the game in emulation at least with it.

I will try to add the trackball support also but that will have to wait for a few days.

Not that I'm taking the mic or anything but I have already done a CD conversion of Zentrick long long ago (used in kawaks) and its better than that so called proto version which is actually a bad hack. I have also done a Final Romance 2 CD conversion but I never released that.

Raz

 

[neo_X7]

lol I got to laugh but your post is a little late as I have only read in now after already adding joystick support

After a couple of hours of poking around Iritating Maze is playable with unibios using joystick (enabled via cheat). Its quite hard to control though and I also had to add button B and C to control speed. For example joystick with no button pressed and it moves slow. If you hold down button B it moves faster and if you hold down button C its faster still. Its not pretty but it works and I have completed the game in emulation at least with it.

I will try to add the trackball support also but that will have to wait for a few days.

Not that I'm taking the mic or anything but I have already done a CD conversion of Zentrick long long ago (used in kawaks) and its better than that so called proto version which is actually a bad hack. I have also done a Final Romance 2 CD conversion but I never released that.

Raz

Was you ever able to get unibios for the Neo-Geo CD off of the ground.

 

[Razoola]

Was you ever able to get unibios for the Neo-Geo CD off of the ground.

Not yet but I do plan this at some point.

Raz

 

[Shito]

Working AES conversion of the 'joystick version' of The Irritating Maze do exist, as I own one myself. I guess those are hacks just as Raz hinted. My conversion is made of original MVS chips but a single EPROM in fact.

Het Raz, as for your UniBios feature, did you managed to unlock some already built-in joystic feature of the orirignal MVS chipset or what?

G.

 

[Razoola]

Working AES conversion of the 'joystick version' of The Irritating Maze do exist, as I own one myself. I guess those are hacks just as Raz hinted. My conversion is made of original MVS chips but a single EPROM in fact.

Het Raz, as for your UniBios feature, did you managed to unlock some already built-in joystic feature of the orirignal MVS chipset or what?

G.

There is no built in feature I think (though I only spent a couple of minutes looking for one). Im actually faking the IR bios in a basic way so it puts the inputs where the cart expects them.

Can you tell me how the joystick is actually used in the version you have? What I want to know is does the ball move at a single speed or does it slowly get faster and faster the longer you hold the joystick in a set direction?

Raz

 

[Razoola]

Hey Raz,

I have the cartridge and trackball and I would be more then happy to test it out for you if/when you program a temp bios to test it with.

Can you explain what you have more? Is it the MVS kit or for AES for example. I also want to know how the trackball plugs in (jamma, 1up port, 2up port or both).

Raz

 

[Razoola]

Ok, on looking at the bios code more I think its not going to be possible to make a trackball work on normal MVS or AES unless a custom controller is made. Now from looking at the bios it would be quite easy to do what the MC-1C bios does but to get the trackball to work you will need the correct neogeo hardware kit for the game.

To cut a long story short the X and Y axis of the trackball are send through one neogeo controller. This means that of course as there are only 8 normal connections (up,down,left,right,a,b,c,d) that you have to tell the track ball what to send (you cant really use start or select). I suspect its the 8 pin connector on that goes from the MV-1B to the IR maze pcb that does this (though this is not confirmed yet). What one would need to do to get around this is wire the trackball to use both joystick ports and then use less bits for x/y axis so one can get both through the ports and 2 buttons also. It would also be possible to use a coin lockout to control the data send through one port but thats not much good on an AES.

Raz

 

[Razoola]

Ok, I have done some probing with my multimeter on my MV-1F and have discovered something new about the joystick ports (not the JAMMA joystick ports). I now fully understand how to get a single joystick port on a MVS/AES to give back up to 70 different buttons if needed. That said its now very possible to build a trackball for Iritating Maze that will work on MVS or AES with joystick ports.

Now because getting hold of the original kit for many would be quite hard I would be more into adding support for a homebrew trackball even though I'll still add support for the original IR trackball. Whats needed now is someone with the knowhow to build what I would be needed so people can build their own.

I think this would be a good time to move this thread to the tech support forum.

Raz

 

[chris1]

Note:


Raz..

I have the Kit..
I've kept this to someday put in a cab..I'd love to make a Consolidated type thing like what's seen in that picture I posted above/before..I really don't have the knowledge to do that..

I'd love it if I could play this game using another method...

If you need any pictures/scans of anything particular let me know..I can't say exactly when I will be able to get to it as I've been busy and other things have caught my interest these days.....Plus I have this stuff put away,but I will get to it if you need me to.
I do have the Manual and I think schematics for this kit though the schematics are,from what I remember to big to scan right..

 

[Razoola]

thanks for the offer but I think I know everything I need to know at present, what I really need now is someone with the knowledge to build the needed controller board.

Raz