HDTV Geeks, question about backlights on LCD displays...

[Buro Destruct]

so i'm looking at possibly buying a new LCD TV. a lot of reviews for the sets i'm in the budget range for (i.e. - the budget range) say something about the less-than-stellar quality of the backlighting. for instance: "Uneven backlight uniformity produces banding".

i understand what this means in english, however, does this refer SPECIFICALLY to the backlight being turned on? as in, if i just turned the backlight off wouldn't this problem go away? my current set has a backlight that i'm able to turn off (and do since the display is perfectly adequate without it on, and in fact looks terrible even at its lowest setting, almost eye-straining).

do most displays not have this option? just wanted to know since a lot of gripes about newer sets (backlight problems, lower-quality 120hz dejudder) do not apply to me since i don't need my display to be brighter than the sun, and I hate the way 120hz+ looks and you can seemingly just turn these features off.

 

[SSS]

this might sound stupid, but how are you viewing anything with the backlight off? Are you in a sunlit room or something?

 

[Buro Destruct]

this might sound stupid, but how are you viewing anything with the backlight off? Are you in a sunlit room or something?

thats whats confusing. on my westinghouse there is a setting called 'backlight'. i have it set to "0" however my display is perfectly viewable. if i crank it to 100 (it goes 20/40/60/80/100) the damn thing is like staring into a lighthouse.

hence my confusion.

 

[SSS]

thats whats confusing. on my westinghouse there is a setting called 'backlight'. i have it set to "0" however my display is perfectly viewable. if i crank it to 100 (it goes 20/40/60/80/100) the damn thing is like staring into a lighthouse.

hence my confusion.

ok, well that's not "off" that's just the lowest possible luminous setting. if you're backlight was "off" you would see nothing but black.

on my sony "Min" is 0 1-9 then "Max" is 10

 

[Neo Ash]

Set it as low as possible, without compromising the image quality. You'll also see improved blacks as well as prolong the life of the panel.

 

[Neo Ash]

Thread Merge?

Might be a good idea to merge this with the A/V Thread.

 

[SSS]

Might be a good idea to merge this with the A/V Thread.

No. It would get lost between the poster size photos of dollfuckers pioneer crap he dug out of dumpsters behind the local Salvation Army.

 

[Neo Ash]

No. It would get lost between the poster size photos of dollfuckers pioneer crap he dug out of dumpsters behind the local Salvation Army.

I wish he had never posted all that bullshit in that thread.

Maybe a mod will give me edit rights to that thread.

 

[genjiglove]

Have you considered getting a plasma? A friend of mine recently bought a Panasonic 42" 720p set for about $550 bucks, it was on sale but not too much less than what it normally went for. It looks way better than any LCD in that price range though, at least that I've seen.

 

[Buro Destruct]

Have you considered getting a plasma? A friend of mine recently bought a Panasonic 42" 720p set for about $550 bucks, it was on sale but not too much less than what it normally went for. It looks way better than any LCD in that price range though, at least that I've seen.

have you considered shutting the fuck up?

seriously lets play reach (around) together.

yeah i've read the plasma vs lcd debate. to me, any claims of "plasma looks better period" are shit since my mother owns a 50" Panasonic plasma and it looks worse than my 37" LCD. worse as in, I just don't like the look of it, as opposed to a quantifiably inferior picture. there's something about the PQ on her set that I simply don't like. also, i'm not a fan of the concept that my set might possibly have to be 'recharged' or whatever happens to plasmas after so long. or that her set doesn't turn on right away (takes 10-15 seconds); not a deal breaker, its just an additional annoyance.

black levels (which are typically said to be richer/better on plasmas) is not a HUGE deal to me, as i tend to prefer black levels that are slightly brighter than what is supposedly 'accurate'. i'm not going to piss myself stupid if i can't tell where the bezel ends and the picture begins with the lights off.

price is really the biggest motivator there. still, i'd rather own LCD since my experience with the one i currently have has been so good.

 

[genjiglove]

have you considered shutting the fuck up?

seriously lets play reach (around) together.

yeah i've read the plasma vs lcd debate. to me, any claims of "plasma looks better period" are shit since my mother owns a 50" Panasonic plasma and it looks worse than my 37" LCD. worse as in, I just don't like the look of it, as opposed to a quantifiably inferior picture. there's something about the PQ on her set that I simply don't like. also, i'm not a fan of the concept that my set might possibly have to be 'recharged' or whatever happens to plasmas after so long. or that her set doesn't turn on right away (takes 10-15 seconds); not a deal breaker, its just an additional annoyance.

black levels (which are typically said to be richer/better on plasmas) is not a HUGE deal to me, as i tend to prefer black levels that are slightly brighter than what is supposedly 'accurate'. i'm not going to piss myself stupid if i can't tell where the bezel ends and the picture begins with the lights off.

price is really the biggest motivator there. still, i'd rather own LCD since my experience with the one i currently have has been so good.

Yeah, well, fuck you then.

I got rid of ODST a little while ago, so no Reach beta for me.

 

[RabbitTroop]

I just bought a new TV last night, actually, and have been doing a lot of research into this stuff myself. I had been leaning toward an LED TV. Namely, the Samsung 8500. The main reason was, it was back lit as opposed to edge lit. On many LED tvs they've started going to edge lighting which shoots light, from the edges down the picture. This causes the uneven lighting issues that you're talking about. Most back lit TVs do not have this problem, or it is a lot less noticeable. Again, the Samsung 8500 (which is getting harder to find now) seems to be an end of an era for that technology as Samsung has stopped selling it and gone to a now mock back lighting called precision dimming. The truth is, the new sets are still edge lit, and now simple incorporate more "bands" of LEDs to light the screen. These create a mock back lighting, as they can be dimmed or turned off in areas that are darker giving the impression the screen is in fact back lit.

That's all fine and good, but it still doesn't work the same as a back lit set. This is also the reason the 8500 is still highly sought after and commands a good price even on floor models. The one I saw last night, a 46 inch model, was going for $1899 at Best Buy, but they were willing to shave a few hundred off. I didn't buy the Samsung, though... While there I noticed something that I think you should consider. I ended up with a Panasonic 50 inch plasma, running the Pioneer Kuro engine (they also had a Pioneer Elite floor model for the same price, but side by side yielded no gain and there were just some great consumer features in the Panasonic that the Pioneer floor model lacked). The fundamental flaw I had was that plasma was too costly. What I found, however, was they were basically the same price (maybe within a hundred or so) of their LCD counterparts. Let's face it, the LCD tvs came about to imitate and capture the picture quality of plasma screens. It's true that they've come a long way, and many now boast higher contrast ratios (the Samsung 8500 is 7,000,000:1, and the new 8000 is 8,000,000:1, whereas the plasmas are around 5,000,000:1) and great versatility, but will never reach plasma levels for color depth and clarity. When it came down to it, the Panasonic (I went with the Viera TC-P50VT20 if you were curious) was remarkably better when placed next to the Samsung. It was a no brainer for the cost of entry (again, only a few hundred different in price). Not to mention that Best Buy is doing 36 months same as cash right now... which is a ridiculous deal.

 

[RabbitTroop]

have you considered shutting the fuck up?

seriously lets play reach (around) together.

yeah i've read the plasma vs lcd debate. to me, any claims of "plasma looks better period" are shit since my mother owns a 50" Panasonic plasma and it looks worse than my 37" LCD. worse as in, I just don't like the look of it, as opposed to a quantifiably inferior picture. there's something about the PQ on her set that I simply don't like. also, i'm not a fan of the concept that my set might possibly have to be 'recharged' or whatever happens to plasmas after so long. or that her set doesn't turn on right away (takes 10-15 seconds); not a deal breaker, its just an additional annoyance.

black levels (which are typically said to be richer/better on plasmas) is not a HUGE deal to me, as i tend to prefer black levels that are slightly brighter than what is supposedly 'accurate'. i'm not going to piss myself stupid if i can't tell where the bezel ends and the picture begins with the lights off.

price is really the biggest motivator there. still, i'd rather own LCD since my experience with the one i currently have has been so good.

I just read this after typing up my post. I still stand by it. Go check out the TC-P50VT20. Seriously, just give it a watch at a Best Buy or like store around you and see what you think. Maybe it isn't for you, and I can appreciate that, we all like different things. I was very impressed by it, however, and think it was hands down one of the best looking sets on the floor. In the end, though, if you want to go LCD/LED, I'd really... really steer you toward the Samsung 8500 and keep in mind to stay away from edge lit sets for the best overall lighting.

 

[Kristian Meller]

also, i'm not a fan of the concept that my set might possibly have to be 'recharged' or whatever happens to plasmas after so long.

This is a bullshit lie. THERE IS NO SUCH THING. Plasma TVs do NOT have to be recharged EVER.

 

[Average Joe]

This is a bullshit lie. THERE IS NO SUCH THING. Plasma TVs do NOT have to be recharged EVER.

I recharge mine twice a week just to be safe.

 

[genjiglove]

So are Panasonic tvs using Pioneer's technology now? I know they bought all their patents recently.

 

[RabbitTroop]

So are Panasonic tvs using Pioneer's technology now? I know they bought all their patents recently.

Yes. Well, to be fair, not all of them, but their upper line plasmas (starting with the Viera TC-P50VT20), contain the Pioneer technology. That was basically what sold me on the set I bought. It has all the benefits of the Kuro with more consumer driven items (the Pioneer Elite is just a monitor: no tv tuner, no speakers, no frills... but it does what it does incredibly well). The new Panasonics blend the quality of the Elite's picture with the niceties of a consumer set.

 

[genjiglove]

I can't really find any info on that tv you're talking about, do you have the model number right?

 

[RabbitTroop]

I can't really find any info on that tv you're talking about, do you have the model number right?

Damn these nonsensical product names Haha... It's the TC-P50VT20. I'll go re-edit my other posts to keep confusion down.

Here's a quick link off Google for reference: http://hdguru.com/panasonic-tc-p50vt20-3d-hdtv-hd-guru-exclusive-first-review/1391/

 

[fmdof]

plasma to lcd aside, you can't compare 50" tv's to 37". the smaller tvs always look better.

save your money, by and LED.

 

[RabbitTroop]

plasma to lcd aside, you can't compare 50" tv's to 37". the smaller tvs always look better.

save your money, by and LED.

That's a misconception. Actually, they both are, but I'll focus on price. Spec for spec, feature for feature, LEDs are the most costly out of all the flat panel displays. If you want cheapest, you're looking for either LCD or plasma. LED is a premium for (quite frankly) slightly inferior technology (and that refers to both LCD and plasma). Sure, they're more energy efficient, but their edge lighting causes a lot of problems with the picture, and their increased contrast ratio can make these even more apparent. LED is great, and they're bright and vibrant in the store, but too me they project a cold/sterile palette. It's most apparent when you see them side by side in the store.

Honestly, take it home and anything is going to blow you away from the couch. I know that... I can appreciate that. LED is good technology. The sets are slim and light. They're energy efficient and offer a lot of nice features for the cash. They are more than LCDs and plasmas, though, and with something like the Kuro as the touchstone most reviewers seem to reach for when comparing sets, the LEDs, even the best, fall a bit short of the mark. If you're looking to save cash, go with a standard back lit LCD. If you're looking for best bang for the buck, go plasma.

 

[terry.330]

ok, well that's not "off" that's just the lowest possible luminous setting.

This.

The Toshiba I have has very noticeable banding especially in dark scenes, if I keep it cranked up for daylight viewing at night.

But it was cheapish and I'm not above lowering the setting when it's called for.

 

[Clessy]

First I didnt read all this shit so sorry.

1 even if your tv's backlighting is turned down to 0 it still pushing a level of light threw the pixels. It has to or you couldnt see shit.

2 uneven backlighting sucks. Not only will it cause banding(that horrible rainbow effect) it can cause hot spot(spots on the tv that are extremly brighter than the other). If it was a plasma with uneven backlighting they wouldnt even sell it.

I dont know what your budget range is but if you're a reasonable man you will settle with a smaller sized quality tv over some jumbo tv.

Some good cheap options for high quality screens are
Samsung plasma's, they offer vastly better color than cheap lcds and better viewing angles. They're mostly all but dead now so they're cheap when you find them.
Small LED tvs from either LG or samsung. Looking about $1500 for a used first model 40" led.
Older sony XBR tvs.