Mississippi town pwns Westboro Baptist Church protest.

NeoTheranthrope

Basara's Blade Keeper
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What you feel the law should say or the way it is interpreted ≠ what it does say or the way it is actually interpreted.

Fred Phelps represents that dark side of free speech. He is very careful to not break the law while attempting to offend as many people as deeply as possible. Anyone who does get offended, offended enough to do something about it... are a like fucking walking paycheck to that hateful old shriveled bastard. You are playing his game according to HIS rules, and in doing so; YOU WILL LOSE. GAME OVER. THE END.

The ONLY way to way to win against his hate is with humor or wit, because it shuffles his carefully-stacked deck and throws his game into complete disarray. The only way to fight speech is MORE speech. Or, alternatively... Do like Spin's been saying this whole thread: DEAL WITH IT.
 

neobuyer

Master of Disguise,
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(Wtf is up with the text/quote display on the new format tonight? It wasn't doing this wacky shit last night. Annoying.)

Snip snip

Yawn,
Nothing you are saying here even genuinely addresses the ideas I presented.

So perhaps I should elaborate more fully on some of the key principle at hand.

This isn’t an attempt on my part to claim what the Phelps clan is doing is technically illegal according to current federal law. Although the Supreme Court did rule 8/1 on the matter of the WBC appeal.

This is about whether the complex scheme/racket the Phelps clan engages in- and how it is a new form of crime as yet to legislated against. The key here is the combination of many factors and the whole they add up to. Anyone with half a brin who knows the facts understands the WBC “protests” are not protests at all. But this does not itself constitute the new crime being committed here. It’s not nearly that simple and I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised that I have to point it out.

Let me ask this: If 20 or 30 other groups of people decided to copy the WBC’s moneymaking scheme- and protested at different funerals (that the Phelps clan wasn’t focusing on, never just joining in but multiplying this phenomenon) in carrying out the same legal scam- how long do you think it would take before this practice was outlawed? Are you really so naïve to think that this profit-tactic would stay legal for more than five years? Let the entire premise sink in before answering.

Ah, because I am actually stating complex ideas in a way that wasn’t just spoon-fed to me, I am constantly at risk of diverging into tangents. Because of this I’m going to keep each of the many posts I’ll no doubt make in this thread as single-idea as possible. I'll leave the entire, pregnant issue of emotion vs. logic in this debate alone for tonight as I ain't staying up late to go into it. But I will have some surprises for the courtroom on this matter soon.

This subject needs to be dissected at length, and I look forward to elaborating further.
 

aria

Former Moderator
Joined
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Posts
39,546
Nothing you are saying here even genuinely addresses the ideas I presented.

So perhaps I should elaborate more fully on some of the key principle at hand.

This isn’t an attempt on my part to claim what the Phelps clan is doing is technically illegal according to current federal law. Although the Supreme Court did rule 8/1 on the matter of the WBC appeal.

This is about whether the complex scheme/racket the Phelps clan engages in- and how it is a new form of crime as yet to legislated against. The key here is the combination of many factors and the whole they add up to. Anyone with half a brin who knows the facts understands the WBC “protests” are not protests at all. But this does not itself constitute the new crime being committed here. It’s not nearly that simple and I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised that I have to point it out.

Let me ask this: If 20 or 30 other groups of people decided to copy the WBC’s moneymaking scheme- and protested at different funerals (that the Phelps clan wasn’t focusing on, never just joining in but multiplying this phenomenon) in carrying out the same legal scam- how long do you think it would take before this practice was outlawed? Are you really so naïve to think that this profit-tactic would stay legal for more than five years? Let the entire premise sink in before answering.

Ah, because I am actually stating complex ideas in a way that wasn’t just spoon-fed to me, I am constantly at risk of diverging into tangents. Because of this I’m going to keep each of the many posts I’ll no doubt make in this thread as single-idea as possible. I'll leave the entire, pregnant issue of emotion vs. logic in this debate alone for tonight as I ain't staying up late to go into it. But I will have some surprises for the courtroom on this matter soon.

This subject needs to be dissected at length, and I look forward to elaborating further.

So you're saying it should be a crime to make money for saying something? How is that going to affect politics and the entertainment industry?

Or are you saying it's somehow up to the Courts to have ESP and read the mind of everyone who has a protest to "see if they really mean it"? (LOL, 90% of folks who protest on behalf of one of our measly two major political parties certainly doesn't agree with everything in the party line --do we arrest them too?). Good luck with that one. :smirk:

Or is it that you want to make it illegal for someone to advocate for a position they don't totally agree with? Congratulations: you've just eliminated all advocacy in America, as well as politics, and much social work --not to mention all marketing and advertising. A lot of public defenders are going to be out of business. They all make money from doing that --start the purges!

What do you do about those members of Phelps group that genuinely believe --there are certainly going to be a few: Just like there were people who honestly believed in David Koresh, Jim Jones and that spaceship that was following Hale Bopp and are currently people who believe in L. Ron Hubbard. Uh-oh, you didn't think that through either.

Do you understand that the country was founded on the Constitution and Bill of Rights? They may have had their fair share of flaws, but what you want to do is charge people for not being "serious", for making money, and (what it boils down to) for having views other than your own.

Maybe you should study the history of this country a little deeper because you seem unaware of its past crises or how it's persevered because it clearly wasn't "spoon-fed" to you, you must have been too busy doodling. I assume that's the same reason you can't think through your own arguments and identify their ramifications.

Think harder, Scott --your half-baked ideas bore me.
 

SouthtownKid

There are four lights
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Posts
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I want to go on record and say I'm against courts using ESP on people. That should never even be on the table.

And, Bobak, before you let him rile you too far, I think he is Andy Kaufman-ing you.

0.jpg
 

sylvie

NG.COM TEMPTRESS
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I can't stop watching that animal topple over.
 

neobuyer

Master of Disguise,
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Posts
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First off- my apologies for the delay, my need to chase a dollar tore me away for a while. Not to mention that constructing my side of this argument is time consuming.

Think harder, Scott --your half-baked ideas bore me.

The effect my ideas have upon you and why you find them half-baked and boring is telling, Bobak (notice you know my real name but I have no idea what yours is- willling to share?). The reason my ideas seem 'wacky' or 'out there' to a person like yourself is because you are a common literal thinker with the "everyman's" blindness to what is so often aptly described as the big picture. I ask you to also notice that my 'ideas' are somehow not like, say, wizkid's theories- hmm? You just think that I have no grasp of the way constitutional law works and that I've treaded into water that's too deep for me. This fits perfectly into the persona I've already said you've acquired, that of the arrogant, superior-feeling 1st class uber-citizen that is the American lawyer. It's strange how I just knew this was where you were going to get to all those years ago. (Well, if you mistake noticing the inevitable for precience).

But I'll admit that I have thrown a lot of ideas into this mix, and that if I were to do it over again, I would have presented them differently. And so I'll re-present them in a moment. But first I will qualify my position on this issue by defining my own values in regards to free speech, freedom of expression and all that jazz...

I am not just an artist, but a writer, satirist and generally freely-expressive individual. I support the rights of Neo-Nazis and the KKK,far left anti-war whackjobs, conspiracy theorists, artists who suspend crucifixes in urine, Nation of Islam, flag burners and anyone else who wants to go and make an potentially-offensive scene of themselves. Hell, one of the core tenets of my personality is my love for playing with and even offending the sensibilities of my fellow humans. I hold very little sacred. I have no belief in god or the supernatural world. I loathe blandness and conformity- revile simplistic, lazy thinking and sentimentality. In a sense- I should be exactly the type of person who would support the WBCs 'protests' and maybe even enjoy them on a certain level (I used to). But I also am quite logical and I do hold to a (albeit spare) set of beliefs, and one of those is the necessity of maintaining a civil, mannered society. So let that stand as my motivation.

Now- What the WBC is systematically doing that is wrong here is engaging in an activity that is emotionally traumatizing specifically targeted people in order to carry out a moneymaking/publicity scheme. The key here is what is being done to the people whom the funerals are actually for. These people are being deliberately wronged. Funerals are nothing more than a salve to the living- they do nothing for the dead. Funerals are about calming the grief of the berieved. Targeting a funeral due to the recent appearance of instant media and changing nature of the public eye has more than the desired effect in this case. Yeah- they get the attention of the new media (which is the entire point of them protesting), but at the expense of the berieved, harming them in the process.

Let me ask this question to anyone who reads this thread: If it were you at the funeral of a close family member whose death you'd sorely lament- what would you feel if you realised the WBC had targeted your family's funeral? Would you just tolerate it? Smile through it and pretend it wasn't happening? Be angry? Do something that would break the law? Would the emotional effect of such an agressive, confrontational intrusion into your own personal family business be injurious to you? Would you be horrified, hurt and angry to the point of duress- but just take it and maybe try and sue them later on or appeal to the government to do something? Would such a thing be just? Would it be legal? Or more specifically- should it be legal?

Well now- aren't I being 'emotional' here? No. I am simply illustrating a point- that the funeral of a loved one is is a place where anyone could reasonably expect to find people in a sensitive, emotional condition.

It is what is being done to the families and mourners at these private funerals that should constitute a crime. Or at least an actionable civil claim that won't get overturned like a pancake in a Denny's kitchen as soon as it hits the Supreme Court.

I am only going to write so much at one clip, so I'll pause here.

Maybe you should study the history of this country a little deeper because you seem unaware of its past crises or how it's persevered because it clearly wasn't "spoon-fed" to you, you must have been too busy doodling. I assume that's the same reason you can't think through your own arguments and identify their ramifications.

I know considerably more about both US and world history than you do, Babar. Just like I know more about most everything (save law, and maybe something like microbrew beer or uh...Minnesota living?) than you do. And yeah- that includes world sociology, politics, religion, etc. 'Cause art isn't even my major talent, and you're being an above-average and formally educated person ain't gonna help you here. Meow.
 

neobuyer

Master of Disguise,
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Since I know Bobak saw my response, his non-responce is quite ...telling.
 

aria

Former Moderator
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Posts
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Since I know Bobak saw my response, his non-responce is quite ...telling.

Scott, I don't give a shit anymore. You waited a week and bumped an old thread to argue with my like an idiot. The fact that you keep bumping it is more telling about you.
 

T.A.P.

Master Brewer, Genzai Sake Co.
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I love how this thread has devolved into veiled name-calling.
 

Segata_Sanshiro

Tesse's Maintainence Man
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We're all stooges of the elite

How many of that oft-cited top one percent have a great deal of money anyway? It seems hard to believe that one in a hundred people are fabulously wealthy
 

LoneSage

A Broken Man
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That one-percent earned their money.

I hear stupid shit like "Donald Trump, now that's too much money for one man! I need some of that money."

Yeah well maybe you shoulda studied hard in school and went to college and planned your life better instead of having four kids between two different women before you were 25, motherfucker.
 

LoneSage

A Broken Man
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PS: so did anyone even read the Bobak/neobuyer posts or what
 

T.A.P.

Master Brewer, Genzai Sake Co.
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Didn't Trump inherit a lot of his money?
 

OrochiEddie

Kobaïa Is De Hündïn
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That one-percent earned their money.

I hear stupid shit like "Donald Trump, now that's too much money for one man! I need some of that money."

Yeah well maybe you shoulda studied hard in school and went to college and planned your life better instead of having four kids between two different women before you were 25, motherfucker.

or....you know...were born into it like the majority of the ultra rich.

Don't tard on us Sage.
 

neobuyer

Master of Disguise,
Joined
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Posts
8,083
Scott, I don't give a shit anymore. You waited a week and bumped an old thread to argue with my like an idiot. The fact that you keep bumping it is more telling about you.

I was busy for a few days, and that doesn't make this an 'old' thread. And I will admit that it is telling about me- I not only believe in what I write but can back it up.

I'm fine with letting it drop if you've no fangs for the subject anymore. Just remember how it ended. :)

...and stop taking that cocky additude about legal issues man, it's not becoming. You are mostly cool, I think you've just got a jones for a certain shade of the status quo.
 
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