More crushingly dull Xbox figures

[toy_brain]

I'm at work, I'm bored, I'm stresed and I'm pissed off.
So to kill time I'm posting this little snippet from my favorate gaming news-scource <a href="http://www.insertcredit.com." target="_blank">www.insertcredit.com.</a>

A piece on Slashdot showed an article at IT World. Seems the X-box lost $348 million for Microsoft in 2002, up from the $180 million loss in 2001. With the unveiling of the X-box Lite at E3 this year, who's to say how much more will be spent? Slashdot also makes mention of a rumor that Microsoft is keeping a Japanese company afloat at this time, which could explain the recent flood of Sega titles to the X-box, no matter how unprofitable they may be.

Umm, yes, lovely. spock
Not sure why I'm posting this. Frankly MS could give the damn thigs away and still hardly feel the financial impact into their $160 billion cash reserves.

 

[Plisken]

in reply to article:i don't know how this is possibly bad news for us as consumers. microsoft takes the loss on all hardware sold while the consumer reaps the benefits ? sounds like a damn good deal to me. i could not give a fuck how much money micorsoft is losing they have enough already.

<small>[ February 05, 2003, 07:48 AM: Message edited by: Plisken ]</small>

 

[Average Joe]

I love it when people say Microsoft is only in it for the money.

That's certainly not true a the moment.

 

[FeelGood]

Average Joe:
I love it when people say Microsoft is only in it for the money.

That's certainly not true a the moment.

Dude, all of them are only in it for the money. Especially Microsoft, but so far, the X-Box keeps losing more and more each quarter. The gist of the article was that each quarter their losses increase, and now they have doubled to what they were at this point last year.

Which is not a figure to take lightly.

And were it as bad for Nintendo or Sony, I'm sure we'd see more news on them as well.

 

[Plisken]

EvilWasabi:

Average Joe:
I love it when people say Microsoft is only in it for the money.

That's certainly not true a the moment.

Dude, all of them are only in it for the money. Especially Microsoft, but so far, the X-Box keeps losing more and more each quarter. The gist of the article was that each quarter their losses increase, and now they have doubled to what they were at this point last year.

Which is not a figure to take lightly.

And were it as bad for Nintendo or Sony, I'm sure we'd see more news on them as well.

you missed the point EW, everybody says MS are only in it for the money. Nobody says the same about the big N or Sony, even though they are.

 

[Plisken]

here's some more potentially boring figures:

<a href="http://www.the-magicbox.com/toptenDengeki.htm" target="_blank">http://www.the-magicbox.com/toptenDengeki.htm</a>

xbox only 500 units behind cube in jpn last month ... oooooo!!!

<small>[ February 05, 2003, 08:15 AM: Message edited by: Plisken ]</small>

 

[Takumaji]

Plisken:
in reply to article:i don't know how this is possibly bad news for us as consumers. microsoft takes the loss on all hardware sold while the consumer reaps the benefits ? sounds like a damn good deal to me. i could not give a fuck how much money micorsoft is losing they have enough already.

It's not important how much money they have in reserve, the whole Xbox thing literally doesn't pay for MS, and the company wouldn't be where it is today if they'd do business like that.

Of course they'll keep on supporting it for a while, but in the long run, they're prolly better suited going the Sega route. On the other hand, MS is not a true video game company, they just built a group of third-parties and licensees for their Xbox, and they could change/get rid of that infrastructure in no time. This indeed would be bad news for "us as customers".

 

[Plisken]

Takumaji:

Plisken:
in reply to article:i don't know how this is possibly bad news for us as consumers. microsoft takes the loss on all hardware sold while the consumer reaps the benefits ? sounds like a damn good deal to me. i could not give a fuck how much money micorsoft is losing they have enough already.

It's not important how much money they have in reserve, the whole Xbox thing literally doesn't pay for MS, and the company wouldn't be where it is today if they'd do business like that.

Of course they'll keep on supporting it for a while, but in the long run, they're prolly better suited going the Sega route. On the other hand, MS is not a true video game company, they just built a group of third-parties and licensees for their Xbox, and they could change/get rid of that infrastructure in no time. This indeed would be bad news for "us as customers".

whilst i agree with you; that's not really an issue as MS said the Xbox will be around until the end of 2005 at least, and will keep pumping money into it if needs be, to do so.

 

[Average Joe]

Plisken:

EvilWasabi:

Average Joe:
I love it when people say Microsoft is only in it for the money.

That's certainly not true a the moment.

Dude, all of them are only in it for the money. Especially Microsoft, but so far, the X-Box keeps losing more and more each quarter. The gist of the article was that each quarter their losses increase, and now they have doubled to what they were at this point last year.

Which is not a figure to take lightly.

And were it as bad for Nintendo or Sony, I'm sure we'd see more news on them as well.

you missed the point EW, everybody says MS are only in it for the money. Nobody says the same about the big N or Sony, even though they are.

Should have made my statement more clear, but yeah, that's what I ment.

 

[toy_brain]

I guess it depends on how determined MS are on becoming the leaders in the console gaming market.
They certainly have plenty of cash to pump into the Xbox to keep it going for a while, but if thing's dont pick up after a few years, MS might just give up and decide it's not worth the financial hassle.

Sooner or later the accontants at MS are going to start expecting to see a profit from it.

 

[FeelGood]

Plisken:
here's some more potentially boring figures:

<a href="http://www.the-magicbox.com/toptenDengeki.htm" target="_blank">http://www.the-magicbox.com/toptenDengeki.htm</a>

xbox only 500 units behind cube in jpn last month ... oooooo!!!

And you know, to keep that kind of a surge in Japanese sales, they'll need to release more games like DOAX. drool_2

Seriously though, I can't support the cube or XBox, even if they both have games I like. It feels like the old days where the XBox is the Saturn, the GC is the N64, and the PS2 is the PSX. We all know how the story will unfold over the next few years.

And it's really sad.

 

[Tarma]

MS are always mentioned for being in it 'for the money' because the they've already got the flip side of console gaming (PC's) sewn up. How many people here (aprt from Mav users like myself) are running a non-Windows based OS?
Who here doesn't use MS Office (Word, Excel etc.)?
Then's there's all the other applications MS have. Most of them are shit compared with quality competitors but MS have such a strangle hold of the market that very few competitors get a look in on market share.
This is what would happen if MS won the console war. Although Sony would be able to compete to the same extent Apple does against the PC, Nintendo would be gone.
Sony has plenty of competitors in the other markets within which it operates (TV's, VCR's, DVD's etc.). In fact Sony aren't even the best or market leaders in many of these markets. They have been succesful in the console industry not only through well targeted marketing, but through the mistakes of Sega and Nintendo - Saturn / N64. Sega dropped the ball again with Dreamcast (a travesty seeing what a top machine it is), and PS2 stormed ahead because of it's versatility. I know a lot of people in the UK who when asked say they have a DVD player - in reality in turns out to be a PS2, not a dedicated player. £150 for a next gen console with DVD playback is not a deal to be sniffed at, no matter how little quality software the machine has.
Nintendo has been in the console arena for the past 20 years, and that's where they make their money. They do not have a secondary market to fall back on like Sony and MS.
So, yes they're all in it for the money but built on different resources. And bottomline is MS don't want any competitors, where as of course competition is good for the industry and the consumer.

Personally, reading that article makes me happy. The sooner the X-Box stall packs up and fucks off the better. Hopefully, then either Sony and Nintendo will stick it out or some other manufacturer will join in to liven things up.

3DO II anyone?

 

[Takumaji]

Tarma:
[...] How many people here (aprt from Mav users like myself) are running a non-Windows based OS?
Who here doesn't use MS Office (Word, Excel etc.)? [...]

Well, on a sidenote, I'm running Linux exclusively, and if I have something to write, I use vi and TeX/LyX. That's it. But that's prolly just me, I'm a hopeless Unix nut... loco

But I digress - I agree with your points. MS's idea of "competition" is a competitor-free market, that's why they were one of the first to jump into the Chinese software market. On a press conference shortly after this had happened, certain high MS officials said, asked about the serious software piracy problems in China, that they don't mind the Chinese to pirate MS product because if the Chinese market fully opens up one day, they all will be Microsoft-compatible already... tickled

 

[Phoenix Down]

Tarma, I'm in 100% agreement, couldn't have said it better myself.

A lot of people said these same things about Sony that Tarma mentioned about MS, but it's really not the same thing. Even though Sony is a market leader in electronics, they're not the only kid on the block. Go to any Best Buy, Circuit City, etc. and look at DVD players, CD players, TVs etc. Yes there will be a number of Sonys there but there will also be a large number of other viable brands to choose from.

Then look at the software application market. For mainstream software (Operating Systems, Office Suites, etc.) how many brands do you see other than MS? NONE, outside of Mac Stores and the underground Linux following.

This is what I fear when I think about buying an Xbox and why I refuse to buy one. If MS gets control, they're going to do to video games what they've done to the software market, competition be damned. MS is definitely in it for the money (just like everyone else) but I think what interests MS more is power and control, which is what they'll have. They've freely admitted that they'll take it in the shorts financially-speaking with the Xbox as long as they come out on top in the end.

Is my stance on MS a bit childish? Maybe. But I've worked in Information Technology for nearly 5 years now, and to me the parallels between the software market 5 years ago and the video game market today are certainly disturbing, to say the least. frown

 

[Takumaji]

Phoenix Down:
[...] and the underground Linux following. [...]

On the client-side: Yes - On the server side, it's a thing of the past. Trust me, I know.

 

[Shapermc]

Ok I am getting off the Hi-Jacking and back on topic. YOu are missing one huge point about the XBox losses. Here let me sum it up for you from GameSpot.

According to a recent Reuters report, Microsoft's losses on the Xbox almost doubled in the final quarter of last year, contributing to an overall operating loss of some $348 million for Microsoft's home and entertainment division. Last year the division, which incorporates Microsoft's PC games and TV products, posted a loss of just $180 million.
What this doesn't mean, however, is that the Xbox is performing badly at retail. Since Microsoft loses an estimated $100 on every Xbox console that's sold, the massive losses made in December suggest that the console sold extremely well during the Christmas holiday season, increasing the number of potential buyers for any games released subsequently.

People this is not exactly a bad thing to take more losses in this case wink

 

[FeelGood]

Nintendo is successfully doing in the handheld market what MS does in the PC market, and what Sony is possible of accomplishing in the home console market.

And I admit that when the NGPC went down, I knew why - I knew when I went to Babbages and EBs in the Pittsburgh area and asked the clerks about NGPC games and they'd pull out a few titles from behind the counter in a small box to show me. I mean, it was like they couldn't even display them. That's how tight Nintendo had the retailers by the nuts.

And of course there's the Songboy - remember that piece of hardware? It was an MP3 player you could attach to the GBC or NGPC. It only used the game consoles as a UI, while letting you plug the stereo headphones into the songboy itselt (because MP3s on a 2~4 channel shitty sound system just wouldn't fly. It was a damn good idea. I think the guy who invented it was Ron L. Jones, and he's still trying to make cool stuff for play on the new GBA. But the point is that you get to a point that people can't even improve your hardware so that people enjoy it more, without Nintendo, MS or whoever stopping them. And that's why children across the land were stuck with the shittiest handheld for 13 years.

Imagine being in a situation like that with gameconsoles. When one of the big 3 gets over 90% market share, it will happen.

 

[Blaine]

I stopped reading this about half-way through so if someone else pointed it out...sorry to step on toes:

EVERYONE is in it for the money. PERIOD.

Why the hell do you think they sell stock, or track sales, or have price bidding wars?

Vince Lombardi, yo. If winning isn't everything then why keep score? If it isn't about the money then why track those stats?

Don't be fucking naive. Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft...NONE of them are your friends. They want you to like them so you'll buy thier product and so that makes them do things that makes it appear 'hey, these guys are alright. y'know, I bet if my controler broke Bill Gates himself would come over and fix it, then I could introduce him to my cat Dr. Faustenstein and we could play Mousetrap'. Whether or not Bill Gates donates all his money after he dies or whether or not Nintendo funds a college for under privilaged urban youths or Sony doesn't do anything gay like make the PS3 download only...those business are in the same business and it ain't the video game business. They're in the buisness of making money.

Now there are a lot of developers who give a shit about Joe Gamer. I've met and know a few. I have no doubt that there are MANY people who's prime goal is to give the gamers a really nice fucking product. That's not what I'm saying, cause frankly if I ever get my break...that's how I'll be.

But Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony are in it for the money.

 

[dr.r.muckly]

That's how tight Nintendo had the retailers by the nuts.

Too true.
Nintendo is very greedy and selfish.
"Our way or the highway" business practice.
I wouldn't support them at all, but the games are just too damn good!

 

[toy_brain]

We all know that MS is in it for the money (and so are all the other companies).
The real question is just how much cash are they willing to plough into the Xbox to make it a success.

How much are they willing to loose before they call it quits.
Thats not to say it will fail (it could be a big success), but its an expensive uphill struggle, and there is no guarantee that the Xbox will ever become a profit-maker.

 

[Bluevoodu]

toy_brain:
I guess it depends on how determined MS are on becoming the leaders in the console gaming market.
They certainly have plenty of cash to pump into the Xbox to keep it going for a while, but if thing's dont pick up after a few years, MS might just give up and decide it's not worth the financial hassle.

Sooner or later the accontants at MS are going to start expecting to see a profit from it.

yes, but as you get further in debt, you need MUCH more to take you out of that debt.... where is all this "net income" going to come from to take away this loss?

IF they would start turning a profit, it wouldn't be much.... of course, profits are not high on systems and peripherals. It will take them AWHILE to get out of the defecit the have.

†B†V†

†B†V†

 

[Bluevoodu]

dr.r.muckly:

That's how tight Nintendo had the retailers by the nuts.

Too true.
Nintendo is very greedy and selfish.
"Our way or the highway" business practice.
I wouldn't support them at all, but the games are just too damn good!

I agree too... nintendo is that way... but they are that way for a reason. they hold their ground. They stick up for what they believe in.....

yes, every company has their shortcomings... I will admit... there is not a company that is perfect.

But... Just be thankful that nintendo doesn't settle for less when it comes to quality.

†B†V†

 

[16-bit]

Bluevoodu:
[

But... Just be thankful that nintendo doesn't settle for less when it comes to quality.

†B†V†

I couldn't disagree with that statement more. Had Nintendo faced stiff competition in the portable gaming market, we would be way past the GBA SP by now. Instead, Nintendo has milked each Gameboy revision dry and advances in portable gaming technology have lagged as a result.

Carlson

 

[Bluevoodu]

16-bit:

Bluevoodu:
[

But... Just be thankful that nintendo doesn't settle for less when it comes to quality.

†B†V†

I couldn't disagree with that statement more. Had Nintendo faced stiff competition in the portable gaming market, we would be way past the GBA SP by now. Instead, Nintendo has milked each Gameboy revision dry and advances in portable gaming technology have lagged as a result.

Carlson

yeah, but look at all the 1st party games they made... I don't care if they only are on Gameboy SP.... Wouldn't you milk it too? If its good enough... why fix it.... or expand too far?

their 1st party games are unsurpassed in quality. I am not saying there aren't other good games out there... but.. the 1st party nintendo games cannot be beaten.

†B†V†

 

[Shred]

Look at it this way. Micrsoft has a Billion dollar revenue from the PC software/hardware sides of thier company. So they throw away a couple hundred million on the XBox side. It is put on the books as a lose instead of a profit and should be a tax right off.
Shouldn't it?