Tekken Producer Says: 鉄ince when did everyone become so knowledgeable about input lag?

[Mr Bakaboy]

http://shoryuken.com/2016/07/06/tek...t-lag-later-character-additions-for-tekken-7/

In an interview with GameSpot, Harada argues that most players and critics were completely unaware of the amount of lag past titles in various fighting game franchises had. He later adds, çš„ have a feeling people are just prone to being swayed by popular catchwords. He also stated that he believes, when based on the correlation of the design and the inherent lag, é￾￾he actual mechanism is different depending on the game.

He was also quick to defend his own series, Tekken, from any possible accusations of input lag, stating, å…¸ekken 7 is the first arcade fighting game to have online play between arcades around the country. It costs roughly $1 per play. Do you really think it would be this successful and well received if everyone was complaining about input lag?

So basically the guy who's series netcode is based off of adding extra input delay at the very start to offset internet input delay you'll get is saying we don't know shit about anything.

It might help if the game is not as lag sensitive in the 1st place, or comparing online gaming in a small country like Japan who has top of the line internet might be a little unfair compared to bigger countries with shittier internet, but shit we is just dumb players who know nothing.

 

[ki_atsushi]

Pretty sure input lag wasn't an issue until we had to "upgrade" to HDTVs in recent years.

It's not our fault that manufacturers released panel technology that hasn't been perfected, and underpowered processing that can't deal with scaling in real time.

 

[Taiso]

Pretty sure input lag wasn't an issue until we had to "upgrade" to HDTVs in recent years.

It's not our fault that manufacturers released panel technology that hasn't been perfected, and underpowered processing that can't deal with scaling in real time.

This is the essence.

 

[ResO]

.

 

[Opethian]

I dunno the input lag on tekken 6 online is terrible. Regardless of what TV you output to. The netcode is fooked. Probably the same reason why tekken games arent in Fightcade or kalleria.

 

[Mr Bakaboy]

Pretty sure input lag wasn't an issue until we had to "upgrade" to HDTVs in recent years.

It's not our fault that manufacturers released panel technology that hasn't been perfected, and underpowered processing that can't deal with scaling in real time.

I agree HDTV's exasperates the situation. Especially since because of the HDTV situation not all TV's are created equally so that makes a ton of players salty. I'm especially annoyed that seemingly 80% of the players out there can tell the difference between each frame of lag since it makes the people who have an idea of what's going on look as stupid as the rest, but the input problem exists regardless. Saying everyone is ignorant because his game works great in arcades in Japan seems a little short sided.

 

[BLEAGH]

8 frames is a significant portion of the time a jump-in takes. If that was just the way the game was, then it would be fine, but it was unintentional and there are ways around it. Having your moves come out 8 frames earlier is a hell of an advantage.

What do we know.

 

[bulbousbeard]

I hate arrogant game devs who think the unwashed masses should just open their mouths whenever they squat and squeeze one out.

On top of laggy ass large LCD input lag, there are software issues. Unreal Engine 3 and 4 have been criticized for having a lot more input latency than competing engines (idTech, CryEngine, etc.) for years. Given that Tekken 7 uses UE4, it's a valid concern. Japanese game devs also seem to be shockingly incompetent when it comes to cross platform game development and issues like frame pacing and input handling; they're basically a generation behind Western devs in terms of cross platform game development because their development culture has always been so focused on making games for single platforms.

Look at how long it took From Software to finally make a Dark Souls game that wasn't a complete technical turd for the PC. Street Fighter V, another Unreal Engine game, shipped on the PC without support for rebinding keyboard keys. Playmore's King of Fighters 13 for the PC doesn't even let you run at resolutions above 720p, so if you have a monitor that isn't 720p, you're stuck with a blurry upscaled mess. Guilty Gear Xrd on the PC has broken key remapping and other issues. Platinum's Transformers game didn't support arbitrary resolutions on the PC. Japanese devs blow at cross platform game development.

Contemporary Japanese game devs are kind of a joke, really. It's perfectly valid to question their technical competence when they shit out turd after turd repeatedly. I'll be shocked if the PC version of Tekken 7 isn't trucked in some way.

 

[Cernex]

Pretty sure input lag wasn't an issue until we had to "upgrade" to HDTVs in recent years.

It's not our fault that manufacturers released panel technology that hasn't been perfected, and underpowered processing that can't deal with scaling in real time.

The issue has been widely known since before that, really. In Quakecons, it became standard practice for a bit for people to carry their own CRT monitors to it because the flat monitors had imput lag of some miliseconds. They were kindda nuts.

So yes, input lag is really not that rare AT ALL. It offends me a little that a dev would think its a new thing or just a buzzword. Also, it was most definitely EVERYWHERE, not just fighting games.

 

[ChuChu Flamingo]

I remember when I first got an HDTV in 2006 I noticed this shit Afap and everyone acted clueless. The sharp 32'' had five frames of input lag at NATIVE RESOLUTION. One should not have to compensate for something when playing, but react.With this in mind, people need to realize input lag is not just game related, but also has to do with your controller and monitor.Rhythm game perfects, fighting game combo links reacting/punishing, and tight ass pixel perfect jumps we all know and love from the nes days become that much harder, sometimes impossible depending upon the lag.

Japan is so far behind Western developers in networking and features. They don't have enough foresight to see that applying what they are used to do doing (t works fine in Japan ADHOC/p2p style) and trying to use it in the West is going to be bad. One game I love that got ruined by this shit is Anarchy Reigns/Max Anarchy, shit we can't even play LAN since they didn't add it in. This isn't even considering the fact that searching for specific game types and players that has been commonplace forever is missing.Same shit with Darksouls except they try to hide behind the lore and make it very fucking annoying to play with friends.

 

[Wachenroder]

Been very aware of input lag since the advent of LCD HDTVs. My first HDTVs were CRT and and the end of the CRT era I had to really go out of my way to hunt down a couple more.

yeah same. when i bought my first monitor i made sure to buy the one they were using at Evo at the time since the FGC said it had the least amount of lag under $150.

its a ASUS something something....

The thing about Harada is he isn't necessarily wrong...just targeting the wrong people. The FGC is really big into reducing lag so if they find they WILL make a big stink about it. Like doesnt SFIV and UMvC3 have a tiny disparity of input lag between PS3 vs 360?

Pretty sure 360 SFIV is a little faster and PS3 MvC3 is a little faster

people in the community have cared for a long time

 

[evil wasabi]

Meanwhile LWK is arguing with goodwill employees over the prices of CRT televisions.

 

[bloodycelt]

Anyone know what the input lag is for DOA 5 Last Round? (Just curious)

 

[Tripredacus]

It seems like there is some misuse of terms, but does this person think that people who play fighting games only have played those?

 

[opt2not]

Everyone complaining about SFV's input lag is just salty from being shite at the game.

 

[Alpha Skyhawk]

Playmore's King of Fighters 13 for the PC doesn't even let you run at resolutions above 720p, so if you have a monitor that isn't 720p, you're stuck with a blurry upscaled mess.

I must be a friggin' legend because I'm able to select 1920x1080. Now, the matter of its running at an internal resolution and upscaling in-game from there is up for argument, but that's it.

I do remember the "arcade rip" that was floating around before KOF13 came to Steam only let you run at two resolutions, probably 640x480 and some sort of HD. I believe that version was actually running at 1280 (or something similar) by 768.

 

[norton9478]

Ain't no input lag in Dive-Kick.

 

[bulbousbeard]

I must be a friggin' legend because I'm able to select 1920x1080. Now, the matter of its running at an internal resolution and upscaling in-game from there is up for argument, but that's it.

I do remember the "arcade rip" that was floating around before KOF13 came to Steam only let you run at two resolutions, probably 640x480 and some sort of HD. I believe that version was actually running at 1280 (or something similar) by 768.

Oh, you're right. I checked again, and the problem is that my monitor is 2560x1440, and it maxes out at 1920x1080. It also can't double the resolution to 4k.

 

[GutsDozer]

As long as it's not Street Fighter 1 lag level.

 

[Alpha Skyhawk]

Oh, you're right. I checked again, and the problem is that my monitor is 2560x1440, and it maxes out at 1920x1080. It also can't double the resolution to 4k.

I have the option for 2560x1440 for some reason. That's the highest option I've got.