The Dreamcast didn't have to die part 2 - Model 2 vs M2 in 1996 - 12/23

NeoSneth

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awesome to have such a grail in person. I chased m2 stuff for quite awhile back in the day. Had the controllers and cd drive at one point. I remember the kiosk units going for $25-35, and thinking that was still too high....
 

GutsDozer

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Holy actual hell! That is beyond awesome!!!
 

awbacon

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Still remember the guy posting on assembler that he'd found the finished unit at a flea market. Only one of the rarest gaming items

View attachment 54189
Those aren't as rare as people thought back then. The FZ-21 black kiosk unit probably sees 2-3 units sell a year. Sadly the bios is encrypted so getting any demos, betas, alphas running on it is not possible. Well until I find one and figure out how to dual bios one that is. I have the unencrypted bios, just waiting to get lucky on a unit
 

Ralfakick

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I watched your video before I left for work. Do you think the Dreamcast coming out earlier would have eaten into Japanese Saturn sales (wasn’t the Saturn doing well in Japan compared to the rest of the world?). Do you think if a Dreamcast 2 came out so soon after the Dreamcast (I think you have a four year transition which isn’t too far off on console releases back then) or a dvd add on, people would have been angry at Sega being Sega and pushing upgrades a la Sega cd or 32x? I know I still would have bought it though since I love all things Sega.

Here’s a what if. What do you think if Nintendo or Sega had partnered with Sony on a cd add on afterall in the 16 bit age that crashed and burned badly, do you think Sony would have still entered the video game market or do you think we may be talking about Sega vs Nintendo hardware today?
 

RAZO

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I think what did Sega in was the Saturn. Although I love the Saturn and think it had awesome games. The success of the Playstation left everyone in anticipation for the PS2 and that's what the majority held out for.

Also adding the Xbox to the mix didn't help much either. The Dreamcast is a great console and has a ton of arcade goodness but not having that dvd drive didn't help at all. Games like Grand Theft Auto, Devil May Cry, God of War, Final Fantasy X just wasn't going happen on the DC unless they put out like 3+ discs for some of those games. Plus alot of the DC arcade games were available also on the ps2.



The arcade scene was also dieing and most players were gravitating towards those large open world type games. I like the DC but it never had a chance.
 

Ralfakick

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Sega would have found a way to shoot themselves in the foot (/head).
Sony was just way ahead of the curve, had a vision for where console gaming needed to head. It's not just about hardware or even software. What happened was going to happen one way or another. And I write this with regret. Sega and SNK, what a shame...
It’s amazing SNK is still here in some form, being they were never up with the current times after the Neo Geo technology.
 

awbacon

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I watched your video before I left for work. Do you think the Dreamcast coming out earlier would have eaten into Japanese Saturn sales (wasn’t the Saturn doing well in Japan compared to the rest of the world?). Do you think if a Dreamcast 2 came out so soon after the Dreamcast (I think you have a four year transition which isn’t too far off on console releases back then) or a dvd add on, people would have been angry at Sega being Sega and pushing upgrades a la Sega cd or 32x? I know I still would have bought it though since I love all things Sega.

Here’s a what if. What do you think if Nintendo or Sega had partnered with Sony on a cd add on afterall in the 16 bit age that crashed and burned badly, do you think Sony would have still entered the video game market or do you think we may be talking about Sega vs Nintendo hardware today?
in my imagination Saturn doesn't happen. 32X is supported till M2 is ready and then M2 launches early 1996
 

GutsDozer

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Amazing vid. I still feel to this day that Dreamcast was superior to PS2. It had the 3rd party support, and enough new tech on the horizon to last a lot longer than it did. It truly was an amazing console that was vastly unappreciated. However unlikely I would love to see Sega release a console again someday. I'm highly doubtful that will happen as their niche seems to be making games for everything these days. I still have love for this arcade powerhouse in a home console that harkens back to the days of Neo-Geo's own Home arcade machine. And the tag line "It's thinking" was one of the coolest in the industry.
 

awbacon

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Amazing vid. I still feel to this day that Dreamcast was superior to PS2. It had the 3rd party support, and enough new tech on the horizon to last a lot longer than it did. It truly was an amazing console that was vastly unappreciated. However unlikely I would love to see Sega release a console again someday. I'm highly doubtful that will happen as their niche seems to be making games for everything these days. I still have love for this arcade powerhouse in a home console that harkens back to the days of Neo-Geo's own Home arcade machine. And the tag line "It's thinking" was one of the coolest in the industry.
in a lot of ways the Dreamcast was more powerful than PS2
 

GutsDozer

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in a lot of ways the Dreamcast was more powerful than PS2
Absolutely. I wish it had more of a chance. It was a high class console with stellar games.
 

GutsDozer

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Dreamcast clearly had two more good years in the hardware too. It was killed mid life
It really was. I was heavily invested and enthusiastic during DC days. I was crushed when it got killed so early. The unrealized potential was beyond sad. I got mine on launch day 9-9-99. I bought every amazing game that came out and all the accessories I could get my hands on. I loved every second of all the Capcom and SNK fighties, arcade perfect if not actually better mind you, played tons of games like House Of The Dead, Resident Evil, Shenmue etc... I mean just look at how amazing and novel the VMU was!! It was a masterpiece console that was unfairly dismissed by a less impressive console's release.
 

GutsDozer

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Dreamcast clearly had two more good years in the hardware too. It was killed mid life
It really was. I was heavily invested and enthusiastic during DC days. I was crushed when it got killed so early. The unrealized potential was beyond sad. I got mine on launch day 9-9-99. I bought every amazing game that came out and all the accessories I could get my hands on. I loved every second of all the Capcom and SNK fighties, arcade perfect if not actually better mind you, played tons of games like House Of The Dead, Resident Evil, Shenmue etc... I mean just look at how amazing and novel the VMU was!! It was a masterpiece console that was unfairly dismissed by a less impressive console's release.
 

GutsDozer

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Wow weird double post.
 

Burning Fight!!

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Aside from the shit tier video output on the PS2 vs the crisp DC output, I don't buy for a second that the DC is supposedly better than it even if the PS2 is arguably the weakest compared to it's contemporaries XBOX and GameCube. Sounds like early 2000s forum fanboy cope, it's only missing screenshots of Shenmue and Yakuza side to side as an argument :lolz:

It could have stayed in the market holding its own just fine for much more than two years though, absolutely.
 

GutsDozer

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Aside from the shit tier video output on the PS2 vs the crisp DC output, I don't buy for a second that the DC is supposedly better than it even if the PS2 is arguably the weakest compared to it's contemporaries XBOX and GameCube. Sounds like early 2000s forum fanboy cope, it's only missing screenshots of Shenmue and Yakuza side to side as an argument :lolz:

It could have stayed in the market holding its own just fine for much more than two years though, absolutely.
While I don't agree with your opinion, I will die to defend your your right to say it
 
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