The Official 2006 MLB Thread

[zapatistab]

So, do you support Giambi? Sheffield?



I'm sorry, but you can't be considered the best hitter in baseball when you hit absolutely nothing over and over in the playoffs.

Through out the season, A Rod does well, but I don't remember A Rod being clutch in the Playoffs.

 

[norton9478]

They do too rip McGwire, what are you talking about? He's been villified in the press ever since his pathetic showing in front of Congress and now he's considered a questionable HOF candidate, whereas he was a can't-miss first ballot guy before. That statement isn't true at all.

Actually,

People are now saying that McGwire handled Congress the way proper way... It hurt his rep, but now at least he isn't being accused of Lying to Congress.

 

[norton9478]

You are only a cheater if you get caught.

 

[zapatistab]

Reasons why people shouldn't care about steroids:

If minorities were playing baseball from the begining, the record books would be way different.

Ty Cob used to sharpen his spikes.

Babe Ruth never faced Sachel Page or Bob Gibson. Gibson would have thrown at his head.

In the 70's and 80's pitchers were scuffing balls all the time.

When Mcguire and Sosa supposedly saved Baseball, they were on the juice, and everyone knew.

Josh Gibson, didn't get to play in the Majors when he was in his prime.

There are tons more, but I' sure you get the point.

Norton made the same point.

 

[norton9478]

I still wouldn't vote for barry for the Hall of Fame....

Cuz He's a dick and was bad for the game.

He had a HOF career before he took steroids.

I'd vote for McGuire, Sosa and Possibly Palmero.

But no Bonds.

 

[jro]

Reasons why people shouldn't care about steroids:

If minorities were playing baseball from the begining, the record books would be way different.

Ty Cob used to sharpen his spikes.

Babe Ruth never faced Sachel Page or Bob Gibson. Gibson would have thrown at his head.

In the 70's and 80's pitchers were scuffing balls all the time.

When Mcguire and Sosa supposedly saved Baseball, they were on the juice, and everyone knew.

Josh Gibson, didn't get to play in the Majors when he was in his prime.

There are tons more, but I' sure you get the point.

Norton made the same point.

1. Hearsay. Totally unprovable. Completely immaterial to the point.
2. Spike-sharpening was legal. Not sportsmanlike, but legal. Steroids? Completely and utterly illegal. That's like saying "Bob Gibson used to throw at hitters' heads" means steroids are okay. Also, like #1, completely unrelated to this argument.
3. What the hell does that have to do with steroids?
4. Cheating in the past doesn't make cheating okay now. Completely stupid line of reasoning here.
5. "Everyone knew?" Bullshit. Complete and utter bullshit. Everyone loved McGwire and Sosa. Then Rick Reilly tried to get Sosa to do a spur-of-the-moment drug test, and he refused. And the backlash started...
6. Again, what the hell is the point? Black players didn't get to set the records, so it's okay if Barry does it by cheating? That's a horrible argument.

Yeah, I get that you have no good arguments, so you're relying on a terrible line of reasoning.

The entertainment line of thought is the only one that has any merit. The rest (cheating in the past, black players not in the majors) are useless.

Why are you so intent on arguing in favor of Bonds and steroids, anyway? I can't see any logical reason for your side of this debate. Help me out here.

 

["Macho Man" Butta Supremo]

2. Spike-sharpening was legal. Not sportsmanlike, but legal. Steroids? Completely and utterly illegal

Steroids weren't illegal in baseball until 2003 I believe.

 

[norton9478]

Steroids weren't illegal in baseball until 2003 I believe.

According to something I read, they were Illegal via a memo from fay vincint... The Collective Bargaining Agreement did not cover sterioids... But that didn't make them legal. It only covered testing.

Steroids were banned as an Illegal Drug... Just like Coke.

 

[abasuto]

5. "Everyone knew?" Bullshit. Complete and utter bullshit. Everyone loved McGwire and Sosa. Then Rick Reilly tried to get Sosa to do a spur-of-the-moment drug test, and he refused. And the backlash started...
.

Me and my friends were LOL that entire era saying how whoever got the better roids would win the HR title that season.

Steroids were running wild in my high school's locker room and that was 12+ years ago. In fact, I used them off and on.

I wouldn't be amazed if Canseco's claim of 80% of MLB players have/had used them at some point is true.

 

[Decepticreep]

Indians are warming up despite Sabathia

 

[DangerousK]

So, do you support Giambi? Sheffield?



I'm sorry, but you can't be considered the best hitter in baseball when you hit absolutely nothing over and over in the playoffs.

I do support Giambi because he did apologize. That is more than can be said for Bonds ok. Even with everything written and said about Bonds, he still denies it, that is pathetic. I have no respect for him regardless of if he apologized because he has spent more time denying it.

Sheffield I need to read that book to see what exactly was said in regards to his usage.

Those 2 MVP Awards say otherwise about A-Rod.

Let's face it regardless of his performance in the postseason he has put up consistent numbers hitting wise season after season without any sort of juice.

 

[jro]

I do support Giambi because he did apologize. That is more than can be said for Bonds ok. Even with everything written and said about Bonds, he still denies it, that is pathetic. I have no respect for him regardless of if he apologized because he has spent more time denying it.

Sheffield I need to read that book to see what exactly was said in regards to his usage.

Those 2 MVP Awards say otherwise about A-Rod.

Let's face it regardless of his performance in the postseason he has put up consistent numbers hitting wise season after season without any sort of juice.

I'd argue that Albert Pujols is the best hitter in the game.
Totally subjective argument, though, I'd take either one in the three-hole on my team and be pretty damn happy.

New question: are the Cardinals really the best team in the NL? All the preseason rags say they are, but I don't know about the rapidly-aging core of that team (other than Albert, that is). Rolen is VERY suspect, Edmonds is getting up there, Walker is home playing golf, I don't see any way Carpenter will pitch like he did last season (241 innings? Damn, that's a lot these days). Are they still the team to beat?

edit: another major point in A-Rod's favor in any sort of anti-steroids discussion: as Curt Schilling pointed out, A-Rod had the only LEGIT 40-40 season ever. Pretty impressive.

 

[Hidden Character]

I hear my Marlins may be heading to San Antonio. Say it ain't so.

 

[DangerousK]

I'd argue that Albert Pujols is the best hitter in the game.
Totally subjective argument, though, I'd take either one in the three-hole on my team and be pretty damn happy.

New question: are the Cardinals really the best team in the NL? All the preseason rags say they are, but I don't know about the rapidly-aging core of that team (other than Albert, that is). Rolen is VERY suspect, Edmonds is getting up there, Walker is home playing golf, I don't see any way Carpenter will pitch like he did last season (241 innings? Damn, that's a lot these days). Are they still the team to beat?

edit: another major point in A-Rod's favor in any sort of anti-steroids discussion: as Curt Schilling pointed out, A-Rod had the only LEGIT 40-40 season ever. Pretty impressive.

I think it is funny how people talk about A-Rod not performing in the postseason.

I don't see the Cardinals doing it.

They suffer from the great "La Russa Syndrome". They can go far in the postseason, to the NLCS or the World Series in the case of the and what happens? They just roll over and die. Whenever they lose, in most cases, they just lose. There's no fight, they just lay there and take the beating.

Pujols is up there for best hitter in the game, I still stand by A-Rod. But it is a close one between the two.

Carpenter I don't see having the year he had last year...I still think Dontrelle Willis should have won the Cy Young because he was much more impressive in my eyes than Carpenter was.

On another note, it's nice to see the Yankees bullpen is looking susceptible to giving away games once again.

 

[zapatistab]

1. Hearsay. Totally unprovable. Completely immaterial to the point.
2. Spike-sharpening was legal. Not sportsmanlike, but legal. Steroids? Completely and utterly illegal. That's like saying "Bob Gibson used to throw at hitters' heads" means steroids are okay. Also, like #1, completely unrelated to this argument.
3. What the hell does that have to do with steroids?
4. Cheating in the past doesn't make cheating okay now. Completely stupid line of reasoning here.
5. "Everyone knew?" Bullshit. Complete and utter bullshit. Everyone loved McGwire and Sosa. Then Rick Reilly tried to get Sosa to do a spur-of-the-moment drug test, and he refused. And the backlash started...
6. Again, what the hell is the point? Black players didn't get to set the records, so it's okay if Barry does it by cheating? That's a horrible argument.

Yeah, I get that you have no good arguments, so you're relying on a terrible line of reasoning.

The entertainment line of thought is the only one that has any merit. The rest (cheating in the past, black players not in the majors) are useless.

Why are you so intent on arguing in favor of Bonds and steroids, anyway? I can't see any logical reason for your side of this debate. Help me out here.

Why do you take this stuff so personal? I can't beleive you care so much. I am going to open up a can of worms, to start everyone's day......If Barry was White, people would be more forgiving.

And as far as my last post, I wanted to get a rise out of you and I did!

 

[DangerousK]

Why do you take this stuff so personal? I can't beleive you care so much. I am going to open up a can of worms, to start everyone's day......If Barry was White, people would be more forgiving.

And as far as my last post, I wanted to get a rise out of you and I did!

I wouldn't care if Barry was white or not. Some might care, I don't.

I have no respect for McGwire anymore and he is white.

Bonds a piece of shit no matter which way you try and spin it.

Stop trying to use the race card.

 

[zapatistab]

I wouldn't care if Barry was white or not. Some might care, I don't.

I have no respect for McGwire anymore and he is white.

Bonds a piece of shit no matter which way you try and spin it.

Stop trying to use the race card.

Man, I didn't realize people felt so strongly about this. I used to think I was a Baseball purist, but with a wife and kids, I have more important things to worry about now. I still watch it and attend games, but when the Giants lost to the Angels in the World Series, I didn't cry. Maybe 6-10 years ago, I may have.

This is a neo-geo forum, people should lighten up.

Don't worry, all of you Barry haters. Eventually he will get punished in some way. Until then, I hope he breaks records, so everyone can stay mad at him.



One more thing off the Steroids topic. If baseball was played the way it was in the 50's and 60's, lots of players wouldn't last, because Major Leauge Baseball has alot of Million Dollar Pansy's. Pitchers can't even pitch inside anymore, because hitters cry about it. I have alot of respect for Clemens, because he pitched the way he wanted, regardless weather people liked it or not.

 

[Neo Mike]

I know this isn't a must-win series by either team, but what's your call on the NY vs LAA series this weekend Dangerous?

Here's a west coast bias article for you guys...


No Fear Factor for the Angels

Past success over Yankees offsets any jitters leading into series with stars
By Mike DiGiovanna, Times Staff Writer
April 7, 2006

The last time the New York Yankees were seen in these parts, they were sifting through the rubble of another playoff humiliation at the hands of the Angels. Their $25-million-a-year third baseman, after hitting two for 15 with no runs batted in during the five-game division series, was saying he had "played like a dog."

No, the renovated ballpark down the street from Disneyland has not been the happiest place on Earth for the Yankees, especially in October. They have been bounced from the playoffs twice by the Angels in the last four years, both series-clinching defeats coming in Anaheim.

Six months removed from their latest playoff debacle, six seasons removed from their last championship, the Yankees, with their $198-million payroll, their usual star-studded cast and their pinstriped pedigree of 26 World Series titles and 39 American League pennants, return to Angel Stadium tonight for a three-game series and, once again, the Angels are hardly trembling.

"Our club won't be intimidated," Angel Manager Mike Scioscia said. "Looking at their talent level, their mystique, you can't get caught up in that. The games we've lost to them over the years were because the Yankees played better, not because we were intimidated. You can't go on the field intimidated by any team."

This Angel attitude didn't begin when Scioscia arrived in 2000. Well before the Angels had emerged as perennial playoff contenders in 2002, they seemed to thrive on playing the Yankees, especially in New York.

Since 1996, the year Joe Torre began managing the Yankees, the Angels are the only team with a winning record against them, 49-48, including a 26-22 mark in Yankee Stadium.

"I can't even blame it on Scioscia because they were that way before him," Torre said this week. "Years ago, they beat us with clubs that shouldn't have beaten us. Right now, they're legitimate. They do things that keep you from having an easy time, even when you do beat them."

This year's Angel team features the 2004 AL most valuable player, Vladimir Guerrero, and the 2005 AL Cy Young Award winner, Bartolo Colon, but the biggest difference between recent Angel teams and the pre-Scioscia models, according to Torre, is the depth and quality of their bullpen.

"What they've done under Scioscia is develop a bullpen that really works well with matchup situations," Torre said. "Usually, when we're able to get ahead of a starter, we're going to get to them, especially with the thunder we have. But they can run some people out to the mound. Their right-handers, [Scot] Shields and [Brendan] Donnelly, can get left-handers out, and [closer Francisco] Rodriguez is terrific."

From 1996 to 2001, most Angel bullpens had one dominant reliever, Troy Percival, but the former closer helped instill in his fellow relievers an attitude of toughness that has lived on long since his departure.

As proof, consider Rodriguez's quote after the Angels had beaten the Yankees in the division series last October: "We don't see them as the New York Yankees. We just see them as another team. That's why we do well against them. We play our game."

Still, with all-stars at almost every position, the three highest-paid players in the game — Alex Rodriguez, Derek Jeter and Jason Giambi — the resources to pursue any free agent they want, and professional sport's most notorious owner in George Steinbrenner, it's hard to look at the Yankees as just another team.

"They're not even in our division, but when you play the Yankees, it's like a playoff series because they're so built up, and year in and year out, they have the highest payroll," Donnelly said. "Playing the best always makes it more fun."

Donnelly would not go so far as to say the Angels had some kind of mental edge over the Yankees because of their success against them.

"I don't think they're thinking about the last couple of years," Donnelly said. "It's like everyone in our clubhouse. We're not thinking about what happened the last few years, we're thinking about [tonight]. You can't live in the past."

Added Shields, "They're a veteran club. They're able to let go of the past."

That doesn't mean they are not motivated by it. Hungry to end a five-year title drought, the Yankees spent another $52 million to upgrade an offense that was already considered one of baseball's best.

"They pretty much have the same lineup as last year, except they added Johnny Damon, the best leadoff man in the game," said Angel right-hander Kelvim Escobar, who will start tonight's home opener. "They always put a good team out there every year. They always find the pieces to make it tougher for you."

But those pieces, no matter how glitzy and expensive, have produced zero championships in five years, thanks in part to the Angels.

"The Yankee lineup has been scary — hey, when you have the money, you're going to bring the players in, and you're going to have a good team," said Angel shortstop Orlando Cabrera, who was on the Boston team that beat the Yankees in the 2004 AL championship series. "But that doesn't mean you're going to win."

 

[jro]

-snip-

Why do these types of articles never acknowledge the fact that the Yankees' payroll is actually a little lower this year than last?

It's still crazy high, but it actually is lower.

 

[zapatistab]

Point made at the end of the long post. Yankess will lose in the playoffs again, because they have no pitching.

The A's have good pitching, and they beat the Yankees 2 out of 3.

 

[wookiewombat]

Bonds is a chump, simple as that. When he started crying on "Bonds on Bonds" i was dying laughing. He says he doesnt care about the money....riiiiiiight

 

[abasuto]

Chris Shelton ~ wtf ??? .479, 8HR, 16RBI. The man is on fire.

For this to be the new steroid free era of baseball, the home runs numbers are unreal so far.

 

[DangerousK]

Well this thread died quickly but here we are in August.

The Yankees just swept the Boston Red Sox...maybe Jonathan Papelbon isn't as dominant as everyone thought...I still don't know what to make of him. He has good stuff no doubt, but I'm wondering if he is going to be another Eric Gagne.

The AL Central is a good battle that has spilled over into the Wild Card.

If the Twins want any chance of making the playoffs, they need Francisco Liriano back. If he comes back that is big...if they make the playoffs, I'm not sure I would want to play them if the Yanks make it. Having Johan Santana and Francisco Liriano as your 1-2 punch is scary.

The AL West I don't think is done. The Angels are 5 back from the A's. But the A's have not been able to hold them off during the final stretch in recent times.

The Nationa League however....I have nothing to really say. It's a joke. I think Bill Simmons over on ESPN.com referred to it as Quadruple A baseball. I don't think it is too far from the truth. The American League will be winning the World Series no doubt.

 

[Neo Mike]

Should be a good series coming up for the Angels. We have just swept seattle, now have a day off, then the Bosox come to town, followed immly by the Yanks.

I have tix for friday and sat vs NYY.

 

[DangerousK]

Should be a good series coming up for the Angels. We have just swept seattle, now have a day off, then the Bosox come to town, followed immly by the Yanks.

I have tix for friday and sat vs NYY.

Everyone is sweeping Seattle these days...11 in a row. They've also lost the last 20 against the teams in their division. Watch, they will show up against the Yankees tonight.

I'm looking forward to the Anaheim series though...I didn't feel like either team had a significant advantage over the other when they played last week. But that's me. It definitely doesn't feel like that Yankee team who lost in the playoffs last year.