- Joined
- Dec 29, 2000
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When you frame it like that, it's a nice exploration into the prism of humanity. However, the biggest takeaway I have from the episode is that Jon Snow is a greater failure now than after the battle of winterfell, and after the battle of the bastards, and I am not sure he ever won anything, other than the hearts of men, because we are able to see who really won the battles.
LoneSage posts are always suspect of being lifted from somewhere else, so responding directly runs the risk of giving him material to take back to some other site and post there, looking smart. He's the littlefinger of this site.
RE: Jon
It depends on what you consider victory and under what circumstances.
For me, the Iron Throne has never mattered It is, as I've said and I'm fairly certain these are Martin's intentions as well, it represents everything awful about humanity.. The lie that Westeros has been sold is that there can be such a thing as a 'good monarch'. One can rule justly and fairly, but one will still have to be a tyrant from time to time to see their order preserved.
Jon wants nothing to do with any of that. He wants to live in a place where there is no war because everyone is of one mind to live in peace and harmony. The system the Starks live in has been stratified over thousands of years. For Jon, going somewhere to start a new and establish a new way of life, apart from a political system in which he can never truly gain what he would value as a 'victory', is the outcome he's been seeking. He was born, he believed, a bastard. But to discover he has a claim to being the most powerful person in Westeros means nothing to him. After living such a hard life, how could it? Becoming the king is validation of the very system that treated him so unfairly. Even if he changes the rules, he's just another tyrant imposing his will. But in the real north, where life is different, he can live among others communally and share what he has learned and grow with them.
Changing hearts and minds is the victory. Getting people to unite against a common foe despite their historic cultural differences is the victory. This could have been a real and lasting change, but it is the doom of men that they forget. So I disagree that Jon hasn't won anything. His victories, relative to his goals, are greater victories than any of the others in the entire series.
Clegannebowl was trash. I refuse to validate it.