Several dead in shooting in Munich shopping mall

DNSDies

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All Industrialized nations need immigration from developing nations. This is a sad fact. .

Only according to a few schools of economic theory that call for ever increasing populations to fuel increasing GDP growth.
It's entirely possible to continue growing a country's GDP without population growth through automation.

We don't need more unskilled laborers. We're already at the precipice of a MASSIVE unskilled labor shortage.

Delivery Drones and Self Driving Cars will obviate the need for truck drivers, cabbies, delivery persons, mail carriers, and other such jobs.

The food service industry is going to be shaken up in a very real way in the next 5 years as cashiers are replaced by kiosks, and line cooks are replaced by machines.

Two fifths of the current job pool will be eliminated as these jobs are largely automated, and very few new maintenance jobs will be needed to keep them all running.
 

Fuzzytaco

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So in 5 years Jetsons robots are going to replace line cooks and truck drivers?
 
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smokehouse

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So in 5 years Jetson's robots are going to replace line cooks and truck drivers?

I won't comment on the timeline...but yes, they absolutely will.

I've worked in many new distribution warehouses where the level of automation is so high, they have a fraction of the staff they once had. Self-driving transports will definitely replace human drivers in the future.

As for non human kiosks in fast food...I for one cannot wait. I despise interacting with a vast majority of shitty, incompetent fast food workers. Automated lines for the prep part of fast food? That's a bit harder but I can see it happening eventually.

Look at many retail stores...so many have cut what used to be 8 cashiers down to 1 with self checkout lines.
 

mjmjr25

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Look at many retail stores...so many have cut what used to be 8 cashiers down to 1 with self checkout lines.

I've never seen more than 4 monitored by 1. That 1 seems to need to call over a manager-type every 30 seconds. I know the local walmart's around here had to add loss-prevention staff to account for the significantly higher amount of product diversion through self checkouts. It isn't 1-to-1 replacements, but it isn't a 8-to-1 loss either.

-------------------------

I don't want to be the guy who says phones...television...space shuttles...the internet...will never happen. But man, I think we are VERY far off from automated vehicles doing the things you guys are talking about. The first time in alpha phase when an automated vehicle runs over a child - I can't imagine how many years that will stunt development (and how many laws are enacted to further stunt development). We have computerized systems now that cause deaths - and this is with a human in a position to override. Take out the human to override and that number is massively higher. Just this past week near where I live a woman relying on her GPS drove into a 50' dropoff (bridge eroded due to storm). She went around 2 sets of barricades / bridge out signs and drove over the edge to her death. Her GPS had her taking this route.

In 2010 I met with a guy from ChargePoint - he was trying to sell our facility EV charging stations. I appreciate he was a salesman, but regardless, the pitch was they cost this now, that cost is less than it will be in 5 years because it's currently off-set by a DOE grant, and our customers will be clamoring for this option - we need to do it sooner than later. Cut to 6 years later. We've probably had 600,000 unique visits since that time. We've had 0 requests for a EV station.
 

bloodycelt

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I don't mind new cultural influences but as Shroom mentioned, many of the people who come here don't seem to want to become a part of our country. They refuse anything that is not directly based on their own culture, including the language. We still have lots of older people here who migrated to Germany 50 years ago but still can't speak German - and that is because they don't have to, they live in areas with a lot of their folks and shops and rarely move out of their circles, except for going to work.

We already have a lot of mosques here and I don't have a prob with that, it's not on me to tell people what to believe, but again, building mosques didn't come with an opening-up of Islam like politicians and scientists wanted us to believe, on the contrary, the more freedom we got in our society, the more strict their belief system became, up to a point when they wanted to install Sharia courts in our cities which didn't fly even with the leftmost do-gooders but that doesn't mean they would refrain from making Sharia-style judgements within their communities. Parallel societies.

There were and still are lots of integration programs that try to get people out of their niches and into the middle of life over here, it just doesn't work, and that's because quite a few of them silently loathe and consequently reject our Western style of life that looks like the epitome of a godless life to them.

Now, not every immigrant is like that, there are many who accept the country they migrate to as their new home and try to become familiar with its customs and traditions while keeping their own cultural background in balance to their new life. These are the ones who eventually become a vital part of our society and bring in new things and ideas which is an asset for any country and its culture.

The trick is to know who is who. Those who come here to lead a normal and safe life are very welcome, those who think they can shit on us while forcing us to cater to their religious sensitivities can fuck right off as far as I'm concerned.

Do they have schools for them that let them learn without learning German? Thats a problem we have in the US, some schools are setup so a kid can go through High School without learning English, which I think harms the kid.

I'm fine with an old grognard that's first generation being unable to learn a new language, it can be hard; but I think their children who grow up in the new country should be forced to learn the local language and customs, it gives them more opportunities.
 

StevenK

ng.com SFII tournament winner 2002-2023
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Only according to a few schools of economic theory that call for ever increasing populations to fuel increasing GDP growth.
It's entirely possible to continue growing a country's GDP without population growth through automation.

We don't need more unskilled laborers. We're already at the precipice of a MASSIVE unskilled labor shortage.

Delivery Drones and Self Driving Cars will obviate the need for truck drivers, cabbies, delivery persons, mail carriers, and other such jobs.

The food service industry is going to be shaken up in a very real way in the next 5 years as cashiers are replaced by kiosks, and line cooks are replaced by machines.

Two fifths of the current job pool will be eliminated as these jobs are largely automated, and very few new maintenance jobs will be needed to keep them all running.

Nonsense.

It's a simple case of ageing populations in industrialised countries. You can automate whatever you like but one day you will need your shitty arse wiped by another human and that's never going to change in any society I would want to live in.
 

DNSDies

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Nonsense.

It's a simple case of ageing populations in industrialised countries. You can automate whatever you like but one day you will need your shitty arse wiped by another human and that's never going to change in any society I would want to live in.

I've worked very closely with care services like you're mentioning for just over 10 years.
I can say, 100%, without a doubt, that the sooner the Japanese develop a robot that can turn an old person over in bed and wipe their ass 3 times a day, the better off we'll be.

I have seen some HORRIFIC shit perpetrated by the worst scum in the world in the name of saving a few cents or just being lazy. Robots for elderly care cannot come soon enough.
 

hyper

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50 years ago we put people on the lunar surface. 4 years ago, laser equipped semi-autonomous robots vaporizing rocks on the martian surface. Voyager is right now traversing the interstellar medium outside the solar system. Juno mission is orbiting Jupiter. The vehicle that will explore the sub-surface alien ocean of Europa is being engineered right now.

All of these things are possible because of.. ____________ (is it "integration"?)
 

MuppeT

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50 years ago we put people on the lunar surface. 4 years ago, laser equipped semi-autonomous robots vaporizing rocks on the martian surface. Voyager is right now traversing the interstellar medium outside the solar system. Juno mission is orbiting Jupiter. The vehicle that will explore the sub-surface alien ocean of Europa is being engineered right now.

All of these things are possible because of.. ____________ (is it "integration"?)

Don't kid yourself.. no one ever went to the moon. Stanley Kubrick admitted it was all a hoax..
 

bloodycelt

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I've never seen more than 4 monitored by 1. That 1 seems to need to call over a manager-type every 30 seconds. I know the local walmart's around here had to add loss-prevention staff to account for the significantly higher amount of product diversion through self checkouts. It isn't 1-to-1 replacements, but it isn't a 8-to-1 loss either.

-------------------------

I don't want to be the guy who says phones...television...space shuttles...the internet...will never happen. But man, I think we are VERY far off from automated vehicles doing the things you guys are talking about. The first time in alpha phase when an automated vehicle runs over a child - I can't imagine how many years that will stunt development (and how many laws are enacted to further stunt development). We have computerized systems now that cause deaths - and this is with a human in a position to override. Take out the human to override and that number is massively higher. Just this past week near where I live a woman relying on her GPS drove into a 50' dropoff (bridge eroded due to storm). She went around 2 sets of barricades / bridge out signs and drove over the edge to her death. Her GPS had her taking this route.

In 2010 I met with a guy from ChargePoint - he was trying to sell our facility EV charging stations. I appreciate he was a salesman, but regardless, the pitch was they cost this now, that cost is less than it will be in 5 years because it's currently off-set by a DOE grant, and our customers will be clamoring for this option - we need to do it sooner than later. Cut to 6 years later. We've probably had 600,000 unique visits since that time. We've had 0 requests for a EV station.

I think the reduction of unskilled labor will be more directly impacted by several other factors in addition to automation:

* 3D Printing, if it gets cheap and affordable enough, you will remove a LOT of need for manufacturing, people can just buy designs and print out things themselves.

* Reduction of physical media, I actually do think in 50 years, physical media for anything will be a niche market. This also reduces the need for retail.

* The shrinking of the economy, this has been happening for years already: Companies are reducing jobs to shave costs, those jobs are not being replaced by new fields. This causes less demand for goods as people cannot afford them, this means less people buy goods which reduces profit which causes more jobs to be cut or automated.

I don't think we'll have fast food replaced by kiosks, I think eventually there just wont be people who can afford fast food.

In 50 years you will have two seperate economies, the upper professional class and military that still have jobs with mostly automated or home-made goods. And everyone else living off welfare, and in a barter economy.
 

StevenK

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I've worked very closely with care services like you're mentioning for just over 10 years.
I can say, 100%, without a doubt, that the sooner the Japanese develop a robot that can turn an old person over in bed and wipe their ass 3 times a day, the better off we'll be.

I have seen some HORRIFIC shit perpetrated by the worst scum in the world in the name of saving a few cents or just being lazy. Robots for elderly care cannot come soon enough.

Your serious suggestion is elderly care with zero human contact?

Obviously ignoring that, my real issue with your prior post was that you haven't come to that thought on your own, you have actively looked up some kind of economic solution to the "problem" of western countries needing immigration to bolster their ageing population and dwindling birth rates and have stumbled across the same whackjob pie in the sky futurama solution that everything will be automated and we'll all just be playing tennis and having picnics all day long in the near future.

It's the same argument the brexit campaigners were pedalling here for the past three months and somehow got people to swallow.

Tell me some more about how it will work. Will it just be one giant welfare state handing the robots money out to the masses? Are you advocating the end of capitalism?
 

StevenK

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I think the reduction of unskilled labor will be more directly impacted by several other factors in addition to automation:

* 3D Printing, if it gets cheap and affordable enough, you will remove a LOT of need for manufacturing, people can just buy designs and print out things themselves.

* Reduction of physical media, I actually do think in 50 years, physical media for anything will be a niche market. This also reduces the need for retail.

* The shrinking of the economy, this has been happening for years already: Companies are reducing jobs to shave costs, those jobs are not being replaced by new fields. This causes less demand for goods as people cannot afford them, this means less people buy goods which reduces profit which causes more jobs to be cut or automated.

I don't think we'll have fast food replaced by kiosks, I think eventually there just wont be people who can afford fast food.

In 50 years you will have two seperate economies, the upper professional class and military that still have jobs with mostly automated or home-made goods. And everyone else living off welfare, and in a barter economy.

Do you dpubt you would be able to find this prediction in common literature from 50 years prior to now?
 

DNSDies

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Your serious suggestion is elderly care with zero human contact?

Obviously ignoring that, my real issue with your prior post was that you haven't come to that thought on your own, you have actively looked up some kind of economic solution to the "problem" of western countries needing immigration to bolster their ageing population and dwindling birth rates and have stumbled across the same whackjob pie in the sky futurama solution that everything will be automated and we'll all just be playing tennis and having picnics all day long in the near future.

1) No, I am suggesting a SEVERE decrease in the number of untrained and dangerous "care providers". This is not an elimination, but they will ensure that neglect will no longer be a thing the elderly have to fear. I would rather shoot myself then subject myself to the elderly care that most countries provide. At least with a robot, I know it won't be lazy and it won't steal my social security.

2) "you haven't come to that thought on your own". That's the most retarded thing I've ever seen short of "statistics are not a measurement of concrete evidence". Nobody comes up with ideas on their own. No man is an island. You didn't come up with your shitty ideas without outside influence. You're a goddamned idiot.

When these unskilled jobs are lost, people will either transition to other professions requiring some level of skill/training (there is a dire need of new plumbers, construction workers, electricians, and HVAC techs these days), or new types of service industries will emerge.

There will be a VERY painful transitional period though, and workforce participation rates will plummet as people who used to perform these jobs struggle to find new ones.

Welfare and other social policies WILL expand, but people will still be required to work a job of some kind. The "singularity" is a long ways off.
 

StevenK

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1) No, I am suggesting a SEVERE decrease in the number of untrained and dangerous "care providers". This is not an elimination, but they will ensure that neglect will no longer be a thing the elderly have to fear. I would rather shoot myself then subject myself to the elderly care that most countries provide. At least with a robot, I know it won't be lazy and it won't steal my social security.

Oh look, you're scared again, what a surprise.

This time of people stealing from you when you're old, and your solution is to kill yourself instead. Seems rational.

You're already considered old to some people, just saying.

2) "you haven't come to that thought on your own". That's the most retarded thing I've ever seen short of "statistics are not a measurement of concrete evidence". Nobody comes up with ideas on their own. No man is an island. You didn't come up with your shitty ideas without outside influence. You're a goddamned idiot.

Oh look, you're being an imbecile again, what a surprise.

What I meant is that you haven't read over the likely economic impact of an end to immigration, weighed up the pros and cons and come to the conclusion that in all likelihood it would be fine because automation will take over. What you have done is gone into it with the preconceived idea that you want to end immigration, how can that be forced to work, and have clutched at straws at the first moronic offering of a solution that you stumbled across. It's embarrassing. You are embarrassing.

When these unskilled jobs are lost, people will either transition to other professions requiring some level of skill/training (there is a dire need of new plumbers, construction workers, electricians, and HVAC techs these days), or new types of service industries will emerge.

Has this been your experience with mass unskilled labour immigration? That the resident population in those areas has just upskilled and transitioned to other professions? If so, why are you bothered? What a great thing! It's not what you've experienced though, is it?

Never mind it being a shit idea, new jobs will appear that you can't describe right now. We should stop immigration today based on new jobs that you can't even imagine being available in the next few weeks. Good work.

There will be a VERY painful transitional period though, and workforce participation rates will plummet as people who used to perform these jobs struggle to find new ones.

Either people need jobs or they don't. Finding new jobs for people to do because you automated old ones isn't a solution, either people need to work or they don't. If they don't need to work, end of capitalism and our entire way of life. If they do need to work they will get old and the jobs will still need doing and we're back with the same problem, too many old, not enough young. Your argument is circular.

Welfare and other social policies WILL expand, but people will still be required to work a job of some kind. The "singularity" is a long ways off.

You anticipate a more socialist set up in this future utopia? That surprises me, how do you feel about that?

Whatever you say next

Don't cherry pick your answers, I paid you the courtesy of shitting on each of your teenage thought process ideas, at least do the same in return.

P.s. the irony of you quoting xorthen's comment about statistics and then endlessly spouting the same fear soaked diarrhea about the same statistically irrelevant topics can't be lost on you can it?
 

DNSDies

I LOVE HILLARY CLINTON!
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Oh look, you're scared again, what a surprise.
This time of people stealing from you when you're old, and your solution is to kill yourself instead. Seems rational.
You're already considered old to some people, just saying.

I'm not afraid, and quit being a sanctimonious asshole. I have far more experience than you when it comes to how bad care facilities for the elderly can be. Fraud, theft, negligence, and abuse are a constant issue. If they weren't, my job would be superfluous. Nice cherry picking the theft statement and ignoring the abuse and neglect. Go look up some picture of how bad bed sores can get and realize that I see those on a monthly basis. The human part of elderly care needs to be fixed, and there aren't enough enforcement personnel to police them all. Replacing a large portion of the direct care staff with machines would severely reduce the problem. Also, elderly is defined as 60 years or older in most countries.

What I meant is that you haven't read over the likely economic impact of an end to immigration, weighed up the pros and cons and come to the conclusion that in all likelihood it would be fine because automation will take over. What you have done is gone into it with the preconceived idea that you want to end immigration, how can that be forced to work, and have clutched at straws at the first moronic offering of a solution that you stumbled across. It's embarrassing. You are embarrassing.
I never said we should end immigration. I said "we don't need more unskilled labor" Please go back, read my post, and attempt to understand it before shooting off so premature.


Has this been your experience with mass unskilled labour immigration? That the resident population in those areas has just upskilled and transitioned to other professions? If so, why are you bothered? What a great thing! It's not what you've experienced though, is it?
Those who can afford to upskill and seek new work do so. Others use social welfare programs. Others move to a location where their labor is in higher demand. If you want a good example of what rapid automation and loss of labor does to a city, look at Detroit. Detroit crashed hard, and to recover, they actually DID upskill. It's major source of GDP is now information technology and technologies for automation of manufacturing.

Never mind it being a shit idea, new jobs will appear that you can't describe right now. We should stop immigration today based on new jobs that you can't even imagine being available in the next few weeks. Good work.
See above, covers this. Detroit is a fantastic model.



Either people need jobs or they don't. Finding new jobs for people to do because you automated old ones isn't a solution, either people need to work or they don't. If they don't need to work, end of capitalism and our entire way of life. If they do need to work they will get old and the jobs will still need doing and we're back with the same problem, too many old, not enough young. Your argument is circular.
People will need jobs as long as labor holds value. Caring for an elderly population is not the only labor one can perform, and it will be automated 85% by 2025 in countries that need it most, like Japan.

You anticipate a more socialist set up in this future utopia? That surprises me, how do you feel about that?
It is inevitable that welfare will expand. I don't feel anything about it. Everyone loves a handout.

Don't cherry pick your answers, I paid you the courtesy of shitting on each of your teenage thought process ideas, at least do the same in return.
You cherry picked plenty, friend.

P.s. the irony of you quoting xorthen's comment about statistics and then endlessly spouting the same fear soaked diarrhea about the same statistically irrelevant topics can't be lost on you can it?
Keep those ad-hominem attacks coming. They really make you look good.
You're led and incredibly sheltered life, haven't you?
 
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SpamYouToDeath

I asked for a, Custom Rank and, Learned My Lesson.
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Don't kid yourself.. no one ever went to the moon. Stanley Kubrick admitted it was all a hoax..

Given your other, ah, "opinions", I can't honestly tell if this is sarcasm.
 

CaseyTappy

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Ansbach attacker Mohammad Daleel :


"To avenge God, the prophet & believers &in response to coalition/Germany crimes of killing &bombing men, women &kids
You will not live peacefully as long as you fight the Islamic State.
This operation is carried out with an explosive device but next time, it will be with (car) bombs ."

The press is still looking for a motive, really ?

http://www.breitbart.com/london/201...ith-suicide-bomb-rucksack-at-german-festival/

Meanwhile 2 men have taken a priest, 2 nuns and 2 believers hostage in a church in Saint Etienne Du Rouvray France rumors are that they have beheaded the priest .
Last update is the the two man have been shot !
 
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Pasky

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"To avenge God, the prophet & believers &in response to coalition/Germany crimes of killing &bombing men, women &kids
You will not live peacefully as long as you fight the Islamic State.
This operation is carried out with an explosive device but next time, it will be with (car) bombs ."

The press is still looking for a motive, really ?

Not even surprised anymore...
 

norton9478

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As if a robot is going to come in when someone is choking.
As if a robot is going to report a bed sore.
As if a robot is going to notice that a person with dementia (and on oxygen) has a cigarette and a lighter on his/her bureau.
 
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