Several dead in shooting in Munich shopping mall

[Pasky]

I made a cynical comment about migrants and their behavior in my country in general, not turks but they can also go fuck themselves.
But as usual, not being german and praising the death of innocents and your moon god in public is totally fine, cleaning the internet of "hatespeech" is so much more important. Those poor, poor economic migrants, please understand.

 

[Tech&Music]

I'm still uneasy about all these terrorist attacks. It's just a matter of time before they strike here. My sister was on holiday for 3 days with a friend of hers to Amsterdam, and I was kinda afraid of something happening there. Fortunately it didn't, they only saw a hobo pull out a very realistic fake gun and "shoot" it in the air, and some drunk black dude yelling "I'M BLACK! NOT WHITE! ALL WHITES MUST DIE!" in the Vondelpark. Police eventually went there to keep tabs on that dude, fucking nutjob. No Aloha Snackbars yet, but the lack of attacks here just makes me uneasy since I doubt we'll be skipped.

 

[oliverclaude]

...for our German friends.

Its a small price to pay in regard to our rich cosmopolitan way of life : [...] hope you never fall to the sirens of isolationism.

That's poetic... you mean like a Vichy kind of openness in a Vel d'Hiv way of speaking, or The Battle of Algiers kind of expansions? Now I get it, why you mentioned our German friends -- we have so much in common. We always tend to regard murder & self-loathing as a small price to pay.

Edit: You probably never visited Berlin, right? Or Koeln, Hamburg, Frankfurt for that matter...? Right. And that's because your cosmopolitan is as parochially dull-witted as is your graphisme. Not that it comes as a surprise.

 

[Takumaji]

He screamed: "I am a German and I will kill you all". So he did encounter at some point hostility, because of his Iranian background?

Well, I can already hear the questions coming and my definitive answer is: Yes. Germany is like ng.com, as in a n00bian comes along, first thing he'll meet is a nice and friendly STFU! followed by the obligatory elucidation that he won't be part of it, like ever, which the chosen one gets patiently reiterated on various occasions, including birthdays and ten-year badge graduations, untill... he has a Res0-shima and snaps.

Luckily for these forums, yet unfortunately for my country there is a huge difference between typing of the dead in the War Room and a fully loaded Glock 17 in the Olympia-Einkaufszentrum. But you see? At some point, even video games & psy-meds were involved and somebody by the nickname suicidekiller inspired my post...

Yeah, we do have a problem with integrating immigrants into our society, or should I say a new problem with integration.

Until the late 90s, the official policy was to deny that Germany is a country of immigration. They called them Gastarbeiter (guest workers) and let them gather in ghettos, didn't bother with teaching them German and everyone silently hoped that they would go back to their home countries one day.

Now it's the other way around, they think they have a super politically and culturally correct system of integration and heap all that SozPaed-babble they learn at universities on immigrants whose value systems and cultural peculiarities more often than not are completely incompatible to it.

In both cases, the wandering-off into sub-cultures and parallel societies continues unabated which creates ample chances for bullshit-spouting radicals to make a big haul. The old problem was based on ignorance, the new one is based on ignorance plus a strange brew of categorical imperative and patronizing post-'68 let's-all-be-friends nonsense.

The thing is, a young lad from Syria or Afghanistan who fled from the horrors of war does not need a cardigan-wearing middle-aged Kirchentags-Blockfloete with a songbook who makes him dance his name but a firm hand that teaches him the facts of everyday German life instead of creating a bubble full of unicorns and rainbows that bursts as soon as he comes in touch with the real world. It's this sudden contrast of reality vs. the technicolor dream of how things should be which more often than not represents the first piece of the jigsaw puzzle of radicalization, either mentality-wise (like the Munich attacker) or religiously (like the axe guy).

 

[mathieu4d]

That's poetic... you mean like a Vichy kind of openness in a Vel d'Hiv way of speaking, or The Battle of Algiers kind of expansions? Now I get it, why you mentioned our German friends -- we have so much in common. We always tend to regard murder & self-loathing as a small price to pay.

Edit: You probably never visited Berlin, right? Or Koeln, Hamburg, Frankfurt for that matter...? Right. And that's because your cosmopolitan is as parochially dull-witted as is your graphisme. Not that it comes as a surprise.

Wow. Dont see the point of your post.
What I wrote is not in anyway related to what you say here. You summon history out of context, I did not in anyway try to justify imperialism. Or you dont understand that cosmopolitan integration is thru acceptance of difference ? And that without it our societies will just grow old and crumble ?

My english might be dull, but you are much too much full of certitude and self confidence about your wits.
Dont jump to conclusion when you are angry… I know i cannot be subtle in english, but i cant be that misunderstood.
This comes from a quarter kabyle/jew/spanish/french guy. There is no place for the reich is this discussion.

Whatever, its a time of grief, not argue.

 

[Takumaji]

There is no place for the reich is this discussion.

Here we go again.

Yeah, let's keep the Hitler thing out of it for once.

 

[Dr Shroom]

A french though for our German friends.

Its a small price to pay in regard to our rich cosmopolitan way of life : our differences make our lives more full.
I know its of very few consolation hope you never fall to the sirens of isolationism.

Oh that is the reason why I feel like I'm in Saudi-Arabia when I visit Paris/London/Berlin: because fuck us and our way of life, thanks for clearing that up.
We deserve this, this is the price we have to pay. Amazing, really.

 

[StevenK]

Equivelent to this:

Shout outs to European mainstream media obfuscating news.

Reality is they're in now, talk of checking paperwork etc is shutting the door after the horse has bolted. Do I think it's been handled well? Not at all, it's been a mess, and throughout Europe we'll pay the price for that for decades.

But we still have to find a way to make it work. There have been groups of people who have tried to fuck with us before, the IRA here in the UK, the 7/7 bombers too. In Germany you had the Baader-Meinhof and the Red Army faction, all trying to provoke an illiberal response to change our societies. Well, fuck em. We did then, we will again.

We need to keep our houses in order though, let them see we're still in charge, rather than collapsing and letting them know they're getting to us.

 

[Pasky]

We need to keep our houses in order though, let them see we're still in charge, rather than collapsing and letting them know they're getting to us.

Right on.

 

[suicidekiller]

He screamed: "I am a German and I will kill you all". So he did encounter at some point hostility, because of his Iranian background?

Well, I can already hear the questions coming and my definitive answer is: Yes. Germany is like ng.com, as in a n00bian comes along, first thing he'll meet is a nice and friendly STFU! followed by the obligatory elucidation that he won't be part of it, like ever, which the chosen one gets patiently reiterated on various occasions, including birthdays and ten-year badge graduations, untill... he has a Res0-shima and snaps.

Isn't this the same with every other country and culture? You'll always be treated as a foreign 'intruder' with all the consequences that may evoke. And if it's just by the language accent you can't hide.

Many (German) folks just take things too granted. Like Tak wrote noone gave a fuck about the Gastarbeiter back in the day. They were cheap and did the dirty work. The word integration, however, deserves two sides to find acceptance in a culture or country which is often neglected unfortunately. Maybe events like these - in all their tragedy - open our minds that it's high time to approach each other.

...and somebody by the nickname suicidekiller inspired my post...

This one made me laugh. At least I'm not playing Counter Strike... anymore, that is

 

[mathieu4d]

Oh that is the reason why I feel like I'm in Saudi-Arabia when I visit Paris/London/Berlin: because fuck us and our way of life, thanks for clearing that up.
We deserve this, this is the price we have to pay. Amazing, really.

I'm not talking about penitence.
I'm saying its worth the risk.

As a person, I'm much more interested in someone having fought his way thru 3k+ miles to survive, than in a guy that never leaved his hometown and as been working in the local drugstore for the last 15 years.

Whatever, wont change you i guess.

edit : sorry bad place to post that. Disrespect for the dead. Please excuse me…

 

[Dr Shroom]

I'm not talking about penitence.
I'm saying its worth the risk.

As a person, I'm much more interested in someone having fought his way thru 3k+ miles to survive, than in a guy that never leaved his hometown and as been working in the local drugstore for the last 15 years.

Whatever, wont change you i guess.

edit : sorry bad place to post that. Disrespect for the dead. Please excuse me…

Worth taking the risk to get blown up while at the Bataclan or Charlie Hebdo? Worth that kind of risk? Do you hate your own people that much?

 

[oliverclaude]

You summon...
you dont understand that...
you are much too much full of...
you are angry...

Of course, within this thread you are the white frogged knight, who likes his assumptions to be the ultimate truth and I am the internet age's black sheep, who disagrees on cosmopolitan being a french thought we Krauts yet need to embrace.

You're the preacher of pop-cultural morale, I'm the jester of obsolete history. Well, mathieu4d, you're one kind of a Midas -- everything you touch turns sanctimoniousness, every contradiction turns cheap witticism and the rest... it's just language barrier.

You're right, life can be so simple. So simple it hurts.

 

[mathieu4d]

Worth taking the risk to get blown up while at the Bataclan or Charlie Hebdo? Worth that kind of risk? Do you hate your own people that much?

In the Bataclan, muslim where slain. The bataclan attaquer where French.
My people ? elaborate plz…

@oliverclaude : Maybe its cultural difference, maybe its langage barrier… but we fail at communicating.
I accept sadly this as a fact.

 

[Dr Shroom]

Yeah I'm not going to waste my time with you. If you really think the people who decided to kill innocent people during a concert or a bunch of satirists were french, then I almost feel sorry for you and your staggering ignorance. Are you going to call the prepetators of Ansbach and Würzburg german too?

But then again, what did I expect from a known scammer?

 

[mathieu4d]

Known scammer ? wtf… seriously… ?
War room material in a griefing thread ?
……………

Back to the subject plz…

 

[StevenK]

Known scammer ? wtf… seriously… ?
War room material in a griefing thread ?
……………

Back to the subject plz…

Meh, there's barely anyone to grieve at this point. More about your scamming please.

 

[oliverclaude]

The thing is, a young lad from Syria or Afghanistan who fled from the horrors of war does not need a cardigan-wearing middle-aged Kirchentags-Blockfloete with a songbook who makes him dance his name but a firm hand that teaches him the facts of everyday German life instead of creating a bubble full of unicorns and rainbows that bursts as soon as he comes in touch with the real world.

Yes, this lad unwittingly turned his horrific war into a spiritual one, his depression into a facade made of numbing consumerism we indigenes call all at once life, religion, love, friendship, history, ethic & philosophy. This firm hand of yours, just doesn't fit into this concept. Numbness doesn't suppose to make you care. Along these lines one can discover the hidden tragedy about it.

 

[MuppeT]

Merkel at her finest.

 

[Takumaji]

Yes, this lad unwittingly turned his horrific war into a spiritual one, his depression into a facade made of numbing consumerism we indigenes call all at once life, religion, love, friendship, history, ethic & philosophy. This firm hand of yours, just doesn't fit into this concept. Numbness doesn't suppose to make you care. Along these lines one can discover the hidden tragedy about it.

With "firm hand" I mean a guiding light that does not try to hide the way we are behind euphemisms, not a bitch-slapping hand. Consumerism? Yes, that's part of our game, just like latent racism, lots of hypocrisy and dual standards. Most of us are simple people who do their work, mow their lawn and try to have fun within the constraints of our sorry little lives that have fuck all to do with the Kantian imperative or any other philosophical way of telling others how to live.

It's just plain old first-world secular everyday bullshit with Darwinist elements thrown in for bad measure but we still hate it if someone critizises or attacks our style of life, then the fucked-up mess composed of diehard capitalism and the generally agreed-upon end-justifies-the-means approach (if the media or neighbours aren't looking) all of a sudden becomes the very haven of the civilized world.

And that is why we need immigration clerks and officers who tell people who come here exactly how it is. If they still feel able to respect our daily nonsense AND don't try to put their own culture or religion above anything else because some radical political or religious leader told them to, they might have a chance to become one with the Euro Borg one day. If not, THEY should think twice before seeking asylum here and WE should think twice before letting them in. This is not a Waldorf school, after all.

 

[aku]

1. angie was wrong, horsti was right.
2. the media attention for those suicidal mfers is way to high. i only care about victims.
3. fck everybody who cant behave in this country.
4. never underestimate germany.

 

[bloodycelt]

With "firm hand" I mean a guiding light that does not try to hide the way we are behind euphemisms, not a bitch-slapping hand. Consumerism? Yes, that's part of our game, just like latent racism, lots of hypocrisy and dual standards. Most of us are simple people who do their work, mow their lawn and try to have fun within the constraints of our sorry little lives that have fuck all to do with the Kantian imperative or any other philosophical way of telling others how to live.

It's just plain old first-world secular everyday bullshit with Darwinist elements thrown in for bad measure but we still hate it if someone critizises or attacks our style of life, then the fucked-up mess composed of diehard capitalism and the generally agreed-upon end-justifies-the-means approach (if the media or neighbours aren't looking) all of a sudden becomes the very haven of the civilized world.

And that is why we need immigration clerks and officers who tell people who come here exactly how it is. If they still feel able to respect our daily nonsense AND don't try to put their own culture or religion above anything else because some radical political or religious leader told them to, they might have a chance to become one with the Euro Borg one day. If not, THEY should think twice before seeking asylum here and WE should think twice before letting them in. This is not a Waldorf school, after all.

You need them to assimilate; but that also requires a bit of flexibility on your part. They need to learn German, their kids need to be the bilingual diplomats; their grandchildren need to become German with a side of Syrian.

But it goes two ways; you have to accept mosques in your cities; syrian resturaunts; syrian music; and the real benefits of assimilation: a dialog where on a cultural level syrian changes german culture a little.

The most successful assimilation happens when 100 years from now; the moment when you have aspects of German culture that are Syrian and don't even realize it.

 

[Dr Shroom]

They won't assimilate because that would mean subjugation for them. It failed with the turks and it will fail again with them.

 

[Takumaji]

You need them to assimilate; but that also requires a bit of flexibility on your part. They need to learn German, their kids need to be the bilingual diplomats; their grandchildren need to become German with a side of Syrian.

But it goes two ways; you have to accept mosques in your cities; syrian resturaunts; syrian music; and the real benefits of assimilation: a dialog where on a cultural level syrian changes german culture a little.

The most successful assimilation happens when 100 years from now; the moment when you have aspects of German culture that are Syrian and don't even realize it.

I don't mind new cultural influences but as Shroom mentioned, many of the people who come here don't seem to want to become a part of our country. They refuse anything that is not directly based on their own culture, including the language. We still have lots of older people here who migrated to Germany 50 years ago but still can't speak German - and that is because they don't have to, they live in areas with a lot of their folks and shops and rarely move out of their circles, except for going to work.

We already have a lot of mosques here and I don't have a prob with that, it's not on me to tell people what to believe, but again, building mosques didn't come with an opening-up of Islam like politicians and scientists wanted us to believe, on the contrary, the more freedom we got in our society, the more strict their belief system became, up to a point when they wanted to install Sharia courts in our cities which didn't fly even with the leftmost do-gooders but that doesn't mean they would refrain from making Sharia-style judgements within their communities. Parallel societies.

There were and still are lots of integration programs that try to get people out of their niches and into the middle of life over here, it just doesn't work, and that's because quite a few of them silently loathe and consequently reject our Western style of life that looks like the epitome of a godless life to them.

Now, not every immigrant is like that, there are many who accept the country they migrate to as their new home and try to become familiar with its customs and traditions while keeping their own cultural background in balance to their new life. These are the ones who eventually become a vital part of our society and bring in new things and ideas which is an asset for any country and its culture.

The trick is to know who is who. Those who come here to lead a normal and safe life are very welcome, those who think they can shit on us while forcing us to cater to their religious sensitivities can fuck right off as far as I'm concerned.

 

[norton9478]

All Industrialized nations need immigration from developing nations. This is a sad fact.

Only one industrialized nation has tried to eschew immigration in order to preserve homogenity. And it has been an economic failure.

I'm sure this was also the work of the amish...

One of the few religions of peace. Although the Amish are not immune to an occasional flare up (see beard cutting attacks).