Connecticut Elementary School Shooting (AKA "Gun Control Debate" thread...)

[F4U57]

Some here may say it is not about gun control, but that is a major issue that America needs to address.

Here in Australia we had one major gun massacre in Port Arthur, Tasmania. Gun laws were immediately put in place and we have not had one gun massacre since.

You can't say that if America introduced such laws nothing would change because it would. Someone who has this mental instability who wants to kill in America has the easiest and most convenient way to do so; buy a gun. Remove that option, and they have a lot more difficult means to come up with to play out and plan such a massacre. The whole argument that guns don't kill people, people kill people is moot - it's an excuse to not address the means of the problem.

Seriously, if you do not introduce laws that prohibit the sale and manufacture of guns, this is going to continue.

 

[Sex Machine]

I fail to see the logic in saying making it HARDER to get guns is a bad thing.

 

[Kristian Meller]

im not a gun guy, but banning guns wouldnt help solve the issue at hand.

this also happened today in a school. no gun. the story has been lost in the sea of what happened in ct.

None of the victims died.

 

[Kristian Meller]

What countries are doing better with more gun control?

Pretty much all developed countries.

 

[Spike Spiegel]

I fail to see the logic in saying making it HARDER to get guns is a bad thing.

Drugs are "harder to get" and yet people can get them. It's the fact that if guns were in "nice peoples'" possessions, this wouldn't be such a tempting thing to do. This dude was playing multiplayer black ops, and NOBODY had guns but him. What did you think the outcome would be if some people were allowed to have them? I know, that's a weak way to bring it up, but I can't believe you wouldn't understand this.

At the end of the day, a crazy fuck is gonna be a crazy fuck no matter what rules are in place. Might as well even the playfield a bit.

 

[evil wasabi]

Pretty much all developed countries.

Denmark?

 

[SonGohan]

I'm not big into the arguments surrounding this tragedy. I was happy to see my son when I picked him up today, though. Got him some ice cream on the way home. He asked if it was his birthday, haha. Cliche as hell, but it reminded me to cherish the time we do have together.

 

[F4U57]

At the end of the day, a crazy fuck is gonna be a crazy fuck no matter what rules are in place. Might as well even the playfield a bit.

OK, but how does said crazy fuck be and act out these sort of acts without the ready access to a mass-killing weapon?

Seriously!?

Use a bar stool, I guess.

 

[Rade K]

Terrifying. So random.


Also, guns are the USA. Deal with it.

 

[evil wasabi]

from Roger Ebert:

Let me tell you a story. The day after Columbine, I was interviewed for the Tom Brokaw news program. The reporter had been assigned a theory and was seeking sound bites to support it. "Wouldn't you say," she asked, "that killings like this are influenced by violent movies?" No, I said, I wouldn't say that. "But what about 'Basketball Diaries'?" she asked. "Doesn't that have a scene of a boy walking into a school with a machine gun?" The obscure 1995 Leonardo Di Caprio movie did indeed have a brief fantasy scene of that nature, I said, but the movie failed at the box office (it grossed only $2.5 million), and it's unlikely the Columbine killers saw it.

The reporter looked disappointed, so I offered her my theory. "Events like this," I said, "if they are influenced by anything, are influenced by news programs like your own. When an unbalanced kid walks into a school and starts shooting, it becomes a major media event. Cable news drops ordinary programming and goes around the clock with it. The story is assigned a logo and a theme song; these two kids were packaged as the Trench Coat Mafia. The message is clear to other disturbed kids around the country: If I shoot up my school, I can be famous. The TV will talk about nothing else but me. Experts will try to figure out what I was thinking. The kids and teachers at school will see they shouldn't have messed with me. I'll go out in a blaze of glory."

In short, I said, events like Columbine are influenced far less by violent movies than by CNN, the NBC Nightly News and all the other news media, who glorify the killers in the guise of "explaining" them. I commended the policy at the Sun-Times, where our editor said the paper would no longer feature school killings on Page 1. The reporter thanked me and turned off the camera. Of course the interview was never used. They found plenty of talking heads to condemn violent movies, and everybody was happy.

 

[Lagduf]

Ebert is spot on.

Parents, hug your kids tonight.

 

[Sex Machine]

No one needs guns to survive, eat, etc. The ONLY reason to have a gun in this society is to do harm, no other reason what so ever.

 

[Lagduf]

If anyone wants to talk firearm policy, please bump the firearm thread or create a new thread.

 

[cdamm]

None of the victims died.

i saw that response a couple of times.

that is a shit response. a person attacked a school full of children and because luckily those 20 something children were hurt and not killed, it makes it a less evil act?

my heart goes out to the victims. it truly does, but all i was saying by bringing up what happened in china today is that people will do these kind of things with or without guns.

 

[wataru330]

I'm not saying its less or more evil.

I'm saying, that if the attack were done w/ a different object than guns, the kids in Conn. may still be alive.

I *work* in my kid's preschool. These happenings are my worst nightmare.

lantus & Chem said the rest, that sum up how I feel.

Peace.

 

[goombakid]

ANY attack on children is a callous act. Hurt or killed, gun or knife, there is no difference.

 

[Kristian Meller]

that is a shit response. a person attacked a school full of children and because luckily those 20 something children were hurt and not killed, it makes it a less evil act?

It obviously makes the outcome far, far more desirable.

 

[F4U57]

Also, guns are the USA. Deal with it.

It is exactly this sort of attitude that allows tragedies like this to continue to happen to America. Perhaps if people actually gave a fuck..?

I was watching CNN this morning and a father from the school was being interviewed and he summed it up in that no one wants to talk about the cause at the moment, because it is all too sensitive. Then, when the dust has settled, no one is as concerned to come back and address how to stop these sorts of things to happen in the future. People become complacent and just get on with their lives.

Lazy America.

If anyone wants to talk firearm policy, please bump the firearm thread or create a new thread.

No, this should be addressed here. It is a tragedy, and being a father I can empathise with the pain felt from the families involved, but addressing gun laws in America should be continuously brought up from all corners relating to this tragedy because it is the only way to keep it in the public's mind.

 

[ki_atsushi]

OK, but how does said crazy fuck be and act out these sort of acts without the ready access to a mass-killing weapon?

Seriously!?

Use a bar stool, I guess.

Guess what, idiot:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/22-children-1-adult-injured-in-knife-attack-outside-central-china-primary-school/2012/12/14/feac17e6-45be-11e2-8c8f-fbebf7ccab4e_story.html

Guns are not the problem, people are. This also just happened today.

 

[Chempop]

ANY attack on children is a callous act. Hurt or killed, gun or knife, there is no difference.

Except for the death toll, which is the most important factor in a massacre.

While I agree with Ebert to a degree, the fact is that kids know how to fully operate a wide array of guns from a very early age. They know how magazines are loaded, safety switches in correct positions, how to aim to kill, etc. They understand what guns are tactical and most effective for a killing spree, versus which are used for hunting,long range, or target practice. Kids know how bullets are fired in bursts, single rounds, and automatic. The news media isn't teaching these things to, it's movies and video games. I would be EXTREMELY surprised if the shooter in CT wasn't familiar with guns from a fairly early age. So how are movies and videogames not partially responsible in even the slightest way?

 

[theMot]

Here in Australia we had one major gun massacre in Port Arthur, Tasmania. Gun laws were immediately put in place and we have not had one gun massacre since.

True, but we're only 20 million odd people here compared to 300 million in the states, odds are way higher that this kind of thing will happen. Still, totally agree there is no logical reason to have guns in a modern society.

 

[theMot]

Guess what, idiot:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/22-children-1-adult-injured-in-knife-attack-outside-central-china-primary-school/2012/12/14/feac17e6-45be-11e2-8c8f-fbebf7ccab4e_story.html

Guns are not the problem, people are. This also just happened today.

Yes, people are the problem but why give problem people easy access to weapons? Might as well start selling grenades too with that logic.

You have to face the facts, their are too many unstable people out there or just ordinary people ready to "snap", you can't give them easy access to weapons.

 

[F4U57]

Guess what, idiot:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/22-children-1-adult-injured-in-knife-attack-outside-central-china-primary-school/2012/12/14/feac17e6-45be-11e2-8c8f-fbebf7ccab4e_story.html

Yes, people are the problem but why give problem people easy access to weapons? Might as well start selling grenades too with that logic.

Exactly. Clearly, I'm the idiot when this guy can't even decipher my point, yet chooses to manipulate it.

 

[evil wasabi]

Except for the death toll, which is the most important factor in a massacre.

While I agree with Ebert to a degree, the fact is that kids know how to fully operate a wide array of guns from a very early age. They know how magazines are loaded, safety switches in correct positions, how to aim to kill, etc. They understand what guns are tactical and most effective for a killing spree, versus which are used for hunting,long range, or target practice. Kids know how bullets are fired in bursts, single rounds, and automatic. The news media isn't teaching these things to, it's movies and video games. I would be EXTREMELY surprised if the shooter in CT wasn't familiar with guns from a fairly early age. So how are movies and videogames not partially responsible in even the slightest way?

What if the shooter was left handed?

 

[Poonman]

I'm obviously pro-gun but you could go ahead and take away my right to own them if it could bring these kids back and stop shit like this from ever happening again.
But it doesn't, it won't and it can't.

America is a dog eat dog society and Canada is trying it's damnedest to join the club, your status only moves up when you start putting people beneath you....this isn't some fruity little place like Denmark where you can smoke some hash with a police officer in the park while petting a REALLY soft cat, go home, play some nude volleyball, then have a threeway with your wife and her best friend and shower off under a 4000 euro facuet that sprays mineral water before sleeping on a giant hammock spun from vicuna fibers...


OVER HERE (in reality), not only will criminals rape and murder you on a whim....on occasion the police might as well. You have no idea how fucking crazy it is until you visit America and see for yourself what a shithole it can be in some places.

Call for the removal of reasons to own a gun, if anything.
Shit, we could go back and forth all day throwing scenarios in eachothers faces where guns caused/solved/could have solved a problem...what's the point, really.