The COVID-19 Thread and Hypothetical Boxing Predictions

Ajax

Raging Silkworm
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What the fuck are you talking about? You've just regurgitated the standard dumbass chumpian argument against wearing a mask/getting vaccinated, but with a bit more eloquence.
 

evil wasabi

The Jongmaster
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I am vaccinated to the bare minimum (J&J), can't remember wearing a mask since March but will have decisions to make for my brother's second wedding (well, the reception for the 2020 ceremony at least, same woman) in Boston next week if I am to comply with local mask mandates. When I attended last year I did not follow the MA requirements for out of state travellers regarding a negative test, although I did wear a mask mostly. He already uninvited then reinvited my unvaccinated father that we sent our kids to stay with for a week+ without a thought while we moved last month. Kind of half expecting him to reuninvite my dad between now and next weekend.

I don't go out much because I have always been more apt to stay in than go out and now with two kids even moreso, but still find myself at what would qualify under the old PA orders as large public gatherings about once a week minimum although many are work related. I have been working beer festivals about every other weekend for the last two months.

I guess my frustration with this is largely based in the expansion of an administrative state, the expansion of executive powers, and the compliance of an unthinking populace happy to cede natural rights to bureaucracy. A trend that was admittedly on the rise since well before March 2020. The fact that authority has given up on metrics and moves entirely through mandate and 'we'll let you know when you can go back to your life' only frustrates me further.

My general perception of you and a significant part of the reason I take umbrage with your posts and tone, which you are welcome to counter or correct, is that your work in particular has not been significantly affected by the last 18 months. My work has been, and the dismissal of the importance or value of the restaurant/hospitality/tourism industry by work from home government payroll and government adjacent white collar $100k earners only serves to further piss me off.

You ask this question with the tenor of 'whats the big deal, it's just a mask?', so I've tried to answer in earnest. It truly angers me. Maybe you find it irrational, fine, but I have yet to find compelling evidence for why your (generic you here) fear usurps my basic individual rights to own my life.

*Written with the least intention of later being described as a screed, manifesto, or first signals of a deteriorating mind.
Expansion of governmental powers here doesn’t need to be another PATRIOT Act. But if people fight back tooth and nail, we will see an expansion that could have been avoided. I’m talking vaccine passports, mandates, and probably stuff we haven’t imagined yet. We need to pick our battles.

And with regard to the surveillance state, why wouldn’t we all be looking for better masks? You can’t fight technology’s crushing undertow.

and yeah, a lot of what you said is part of a political philosophy more than a health focus. Like, you say you got the bare minimum vaccine - why? The effectiveness is poor without a booster. Why take that risk? What point are you proving if you die?

My work has not taken a hit. You’re right. Imagine your financial situation if everyone did everything they were told from the beginning, with masks, getting vaccinated. You would probably not have to look for like minded suburban enclaves.

A big part of this mess is the politicization of science. Just because Trump or Biden say that water is wet, doesn’t mean it’s not. Telling people to mask up and mitigate risk isn’t anti-libertarian. Dying is.
 
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norton9478

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Well that's awful selfish of you when car crashes are quite preventable.

There is a roadmap.
I wear my seatbelt and do not speed outside of road conditions.
Not because I have to but because I want to mitigate risks. Perhaps if behaved in a reckless manner, I would concede your point.
 

lithy

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What the fuck are you talking about? You've just regurgitated the standard dumbass chumpian argument against wearing a mask/getting vaccinated, but with a bit more eloquence.

You have rarely added anything of value to this thread from an argumentative or conversational perspective just more rote anti-Trump shit so kindly fuck off.

Expansion of governmental powers here doesn’t need to be another PATRIOT Act. But if people fight back tooth and nail, we will see an expansion that could have been avoided. I’m talking vaccine passports, mandates, and probably stuff we haven’t imagined yet. We need to pick our battles.

This is like substituting the carrot and the stick for the stick and the whip. Take it or get worse? That's your best argument? I have already given enough, incrementalism and renormalization has already pushed far beyond bounds I am comfortable with, so in this case, my answer is no more.

And with regard to the surveillance state, why wouldn’t we all be looking for better masks? You can’t fight technology’s crushing undertow.

and yeah, a lot of what you said is part of a political philosophy more than a health focus. Like, you say you got the bare minimum vaccine - why? The effectiveness is poor without a booster. Why take that risk? What point are you proving if you die?

I know it's political philosophy. I'm not arguing the best way to combat covid on a personal or societal level. I'm arguing for people living more freely and empowering them to make decisions for their own lives and a return to individual rather than communal responsibility.

I got the J&J because that's what the Rite Aid around the corner was giving. I also knew I was unlikely to go back for another shot, so that worked for me. I have been following the news about a potential J&J booster efficacy and will make a decision on that at some point in the future if it becomes approved. As a point of comparison I have never gotten a flu vaccine, I got the Tdap once when my first kid was born but not when the second was and it was such a huge pain in the ass. I do not have a PCP and have not seen a doctor since that first Tdap shot and since before that I can't even remember the last time I may have seen a doctor.

If all that means I'll be dead by 40, well tough shit for me.

My work has not taken a hit. You’re right. Imagine your financial situation if everyone did everything they were told from the beginning, with masks, getting vaccinated. You would probably not have to look for like minded suburban enclaves.

I instead imagine what my work would have been if government had not prevented people from coming. Whenever they were allowed, they came right back out, and everything was mostly normal. I don't blame people, I blame government.

A big part of this mess is the politicization of science. Just because Trump or Biden say that water is wet, doesn’t mean it’s not. Telling people to mask up and mitigate risk isn’t anti-libertarian. Dying is.

Indeed, because I find that much of what both Trump and Biden have done and said to be not rooted in any sort of science more just draped in its skin. Including masks. I have not seen convincing studies that real world widespread mask wearing is effective in reducing person to person transmission. In this thread I often ask for sources and data and get continually told that being told to wear a mask is just common sense. I don't ignore evidence for my own personal decision making although I may be quite upset if governments instead command me to do anything.

Telling anyone by governmental force is indeed the very definition of anti-libertarianism.
 
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M

Vanessa's Drinking Buddy,
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So, I'm confused now, is water really wet or not? Asking for Fio, who's unsure about what to use for tonight's SNK wet T-shirt contest; should she empty a bottle of tequila on her bosoms instead? I hear that kills Covid too.
 

norton9478

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Mr. Libertarian wants the Federal Government to whip out a bunch of anti-clonal antibody treatments.
 

evil wasabi

The Jongmaster
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I wear my seatbelt and do not speed outside of road conditions.
Not because I have to but because I want to mitigate risks. Perhaps if behaved in a reckless manner, I would concede your point.
The government telling you to wear a seatbelt is anti-libertarianism.
 

evil wasabi

The Jongmaster
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The government telling you to turn on your headlights at night is anti-libertarianism.
 

evil wasabi

The Jongmaster
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The government telling you to slow down in a school zone during certain times is anti-libertarianism.
 
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Ajax

Raging Silkworm
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And you think you have said anything substantive here (or anywhere else, for that matter) with your fake ass, super patriotic libertarian (but actually just republican) views? What a fuckin’ laugh. I would also invite you to fuck off of the whole forum.
 

evil wasabi

The Jongmaster
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The list could go on, but anyone who says that has completely thrown out the social contract and is promoting an America that is medieval at best.
 

StevenK

ng.com SFII tournament winner 2002-2021
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I wear my seatbelt and do not speed outside of road conditions.
Not because I have to but because I want to mitigate risks. Perhaps if behaved in a reckless manner, I would concede your point.
Aren't you horribly overweight?

What if I told you to put a mask on at snack times to free up 2 ICU beds at some point in the future?
 

lithy

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Mr. Libertarian wants the Federal Government to whip out a bunch of anti-clonal antibody treatments.

I mean, I'd be happy to let a company that developed such a treatment with its own capital profit from it and distribute it however they want, but that's not an option right?

The government telling you to wear a seatbelt is anti-liberalism.
The government telling you to slow down in a school zone during certain times is anti-liberalism.

I'm sorry, is this one of those classical liberals vs. modern liberals philosophical debates or did you just mistype anti-libertarianism?

And you think you have said anything substantive here (or anywhere else, for that matter) with your fake ass, super patriotic libertarian (but actually just republican) views? What a fuckin’ laugh. I would also invite you to fuck off of the whole forum.

It is almost as if you haven't truly read any of my posts of you think I am patriotic and Republican. And fake-ass? Ouch, I assure you I am nothing if not sincere. I guess I'll have to stay a while longer to see if you would like to counter with an actual argument, instead of just a cliched personal attack. OMG I'M ACTUALLY A REPUBLICAN! I'M MELTINGGGGGGGGG...
 

norton9478

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You did once blame me for a cop (or maybe a pair of them) being shot in ambush.
 

norton9478

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All I care about is that a bed is in the ICU if I need it.

My general philosophy on the role of goverment and the social compact right now is that people should act in thier best interests at all times. It is up to the goverment to set the rules that promote collectively better outcomes.
 

norton9478

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I have a ported N95 (actually a whole 10-pack of them) mask that I wear in places that do not have a universal mask requirement.

It protects me, keeps me comfortable but screws everybody else.
 

lithy

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All I care about is that a bed is in the ICU if I need it.

I agree, and I don't think governments should be in a position of choosing who 'deserves' medical care.

My general philosophy on the role of goverment and the social compact right now is that people should act in thier best interests at all times.

I can think of few instances where people don't act in their own best interests, at least from their perspective.

It is up to the goverment to set the rules that promote collectively better outcomes.

And you lost me.

You did once blame me for a cop (or maybe a pair of them) being shot in ambush.

Was that in the black in America thread? I don't remember it, sounds juicy though. I do remember the punching a Nazi in the face thing.
 
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