U.S. Government: 3 centuries in medical experimentation

[Nesagwa]

Yes of course it's better than some third world country, and I figured you'd say something like that...but I still wouldn't drink what's coming out of the tap in my area. Even tap water in the USA is neither clean nor safe. Cleaner and safer than other places? sure.

You're a god damned moron.

 

[cannonball]

You're a god damned moron.

keep chugging that tap water brah

 

[norton9478]

keep chugging that tap water brah

So what do you do for drinking water?

 

[cannonball]

So what do you do for drinking water?

bottled water.

 

[aria]

So the supposedly seminal study tying vaccines to autism, previously discredited, is now being revealed as an outright fraud.

This reminds me of how the ass-backwards village chiefs of Northern Nigeria told their people to stop getting the polio vaccine because it would cause sterility. Guess where polio reappeared?

Here's a selection of choice quotes from a number of sources:

The British Medical Journal on Wednesday accused a disgraced British doctor of committing an "elaborate fraud" by faking data in his studies linking vaccines with autism.

Andrew Wakefield's work convinced thousands of parents that vaccines are dangerous. Such fears have not only caused parents to skip vaccinations for their children, which critics say has led to ongoing outbreaks of measles and mumps, but have forced costly reformulations of many vaccines.

The journal's editors said it was not possible that Wakefield made a mistake and that he must have faked the data. They supported their position with a series of articles by a journalist who used medical records and interviews to show that Wakefield falsified data.

For instance, the reports found that Wakefield, who included data from only 12 children in his report, studied at least 13 and that several showed symptoms of autism before they were vaccinated.

Wakefield "is not the first scientist to be spectacularly wrong," noted Dr. Paul A. Offit of the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, who cited such others as Martin Fleischmann and Stanley Pons of cold fusion fame. "But nobody did harm like this guy. Let there be no doubt. Hundreds were hospitalized [because they weren't vaccinated], and four children were killed.... He had a tremendous negative impact."

Britain stripped Wakefield of his medical license in May. "Meanwhile, the damage to public health continues, fueled by unbalanced media reporting and an ineffective response from government, researchers, journals and the medical profession," BMJ states in an editorial accompanying the work.

Wakefield has been unable to reproduce his results in the face of criticism, and other researchers have been unable to match them. Most of his co-authors withdrew their names from the study in 2004 after learning he had had been paid by a law firm that intended to sue vaccine manufacturers -- a serious conflict of interest he failed to disclose. After years on controversy, the Lancet, the prestigious journal that originally published the research, retracted Wakefield's paper last February.

The series of articles launched Wednesday are investigative journalism, not results of a clinical study. The writer, Brian Deer, said Wakefield "chiseled" the data before him, "falsifying medical histories of children and essentially concocting a picture, which was the picture he was contracted to find by lawyers hoping to sue vaccine manufacturers and to create a vaccine scare."

According to BMJ, Wakefield received more than 435,000 pounds ($674,000) from the lawyers. Godlee said the study shows that of the 12 cases Wakefield examined in his paper, five showed developmental problems before receiving the MMR vaccine and three never had autism.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/05/AR2011010507052.html

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704405704576064590742569026.html

http://www.latimes.com/health/boostershots/la-heb-andrew-wakefield-01052011,0,3455138.story

http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/01/05/autism.vaccines/index.html?hpt=T2

 

[norton9478]

bottled water.

So you only drink tap water as long as it has a trace of BPA????

Niiiicceeee

So the supposedly seminal study tying vaccines to autism, previously discredited, is now being revealed as an outright fraud.

Aluminum Pots and Pans contribute to Alzheimers...

According to the mid-1990's Dr. Micheal Savage.

 

[cannonball]

So you only drink tap water as long as it has a trace of BPA????

Niiiicceeee

I don't know what BPA is so...sure?

I know that bottled waters are all held to stricter standards than tap water. And you have less metal contaminents than tap water (varies by household plumbing of course).

I'm happy with what I drink. You won't change my mind if that's what your goal is here.

 

[norton9478]

I don't know what BPA is so...sure?

I know that bottled waters are all held to stricter standards than tap water. And you have less metal contaminents than tap water (varies by household plumbing of course).

I'm happy with what I drink. You won't change my mind if that's what your goal is here.

Not exactly...

Most bottled water is filtered tap water.

And tap water is in some ways held to a higher standard than bottled water.

 

[cannonball]

Not exactly...

Most bottled water is filtered tap water.

And tap water is in some ways held to a higher standard than bottled water.

haha ok man. I did some research just now and you are right. After reading this [ehso.com], if that's all true, I think I'll be switching to tap water with a filter on the faucet from now on.

I was clearly wrong.

 

[SPINMASTER X]

I worked for the Government and I don't trust them any farther than I can spit. While I was outprocessing the during my last few months I avoided the Flu vaccine like the plague.

But the reality of the matter is you're damned if you do damned if you don't. In most cases I'd rather "don't".

 

[evil wasabi]

http://www.eutimes.net/2011/01/top-...fter-arkansas-weapons-test-causes-mass-death/

It's like they read my mind.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/05/AR2011010505231.html

 

[SNKorSWM]

Researchers need funding, and funding won't happen unless they have previous results. It is only natural that fraud will rear its ugly head.

Remember all that fad about stem cell research a few years ago? That's just the modern version of the neverending quest for eternal life. Once the funding tank, the whole thing just died.

 

[Nesagwa]

Researchers need funding, and funding won't happen unless they have previous results. It is only natural that fraud will rear its ugly head.

Remember all that fad about stem cell research a few years ago? That's just the modern version of the neverending quest for eternal life. Once the funding tank, the whole thing just died.

What? No it didn't. They were growing heart tissue from them just a few months ago.

 

[SNKorSWM]

What? No it didn't. They were growing heart tissue from them just a few months ago.

They were already growing heart tissues a decade ago in UC San Diego. In the medical profession, success counts only when they move past the clinical trials.

 

[BigTinz]

http://www.eutimes.net/2011/01/top-...fter-arkansas-weapons-test-causes-mass-death/

It's like they read my mind.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/05/AR2011010505231.html

Holy shit...

He was killed by the govt, no doubt. .....I know why but I really wish this would get more exposure.

 

[Scuz39]

Btw, if you're vaccinated, why does it matter if no one else is? If the vaccine works, you're protected. SO why force your beliefs on someone else.

3,000 to a high of about 49,000 people Die each year from the flu in the US.

Vaccines have huge positive externalities. Look at it this way- During flu season lets say we have a flu that will spread from contact 25% of the time. The average infected exposes 10 people and this cycle takes 3 days. flu season is 2 months. By the end of Flu season you would have 91,000,000 who have been infected. Now lets vaccinate 3/10th of the population. 72,000. Obviously these numbers don't take into account huge things (spread between cities, exposing previously exposed, individual rates of meeting people...) BUT I want to point out the incredible power of EXPONENTIAL Growth.

There was a time when Disease could easily wipe out a PERCENTAGE (some recorded as upwards of 30%... But even 1% is sickening to think about. That would be 3,600,000 in america alone) of a population. One of the reasons this doesn't happen anymore is aggressive vaccination (and modern hygiene, and penicillin.)

Don't be a fucking Dumbass, get your kids vaccinated.

 

[evil wasabi]

3,000 to a high of about 49,000 people Die each year from the flu in the US.

Vaccines have huge positive externalities. Look at it this way- During flu season lets say we have a flu that will spread from contact 25% of the time. The average infected exposes 10 people and this cycle takes 3 days. flu season is 2 months. By the end of Flu season you would have 91,000,000 who have been infected. Now lets vaccinate 3/10th of the population. 72,000. Obviously these numbers don't take into account huge things (spread between cities, exposing previously exposed, individual rates of meeting people...) BUT I want to point out the incredible power of EXPONENTIAL Growth.

There was a time when Disease could easily wipe out a PERCENTAGE (some recorded as upwards of 30%... But even 1% is sickening to think about. That would be 3,600,000 in america alone) of a population. One of the reasons this doesn't happen anymore is aggressive vaccination (and modern hygiene, and penicillin.)

Don't be a fucking Dumbass, get your kids vaccinated.

Do you trust everything that happens to be called a vaccine?

 

[Scuz39]

Do you trust everything that happens to be called a vaccine?

We are discussing flu vaccines. I trust those.

Obviously I also trust several other such as polo, hep b, and tetnis.

 

[aria]

We are discussing flu vaccines. I trust those.

Obviously I also trust several other such as polo, hep b, and tetnis.

For a second I did see a possible vaccine for tetris. Alas, it doesn't exist and I am far too far gone for it to help

(it's tetanus)

 

[fake]

haha ok man. I did some research just now and you are right. After reading this [ehso.com], if that's all true, I think I'll be switching to tap water with a filter on the faucet from now on.

I was clearly wrong.

I still drink bottled water a lot. At work, the tap water looks like milk. So...

 

[evil wasabi]

For a second I did see a possible vaccine for tetris. Alas, it doesn't exist and I am far too far gone for it to help

(it's tetanus)

Tetris has caused me too much suffering. I fucked up 1L schooling undergrads in Tetris. It got me nowhere. I wish that fucking UFO would have taken me with it.

 

[OMFG]

"There's no right, there's no wrong, there's only popular opinion. You... you... you believe in germs, right?"

 

[Force]

3,000 to a high of about 49,000 people Die each year from the flu in the US.

Vaccines have huge positive externalities. Look at it this way- During flu season lets say we have a flu that will spread from contact 25% of the time. The average infected exposes 10 people and this cycle takes 3 days. flu season is 2 months. By the end of Flu season you would have 91,000,000 who have been infected. Now lets vaccinate 3/10th of the population. 72,000. Obviously these numbers don't take into account huge things (spread between cities, exposing previously exposed, individual rates of meeting people...) BUT I want to point out the incredible power of EXPONENTIAL Growth.

There was a time when Disease could easily wipe out a PERCENTAGE (some recorded as upwards of 30%... But even 1% is sickening to think about. That would be 3,600,000 in america alone) of a population. One of the reasons this doesn't happen anymore is aggressive vaccination (and modern hygiene, and penicillin.)

Don't be a fucking Dumbass, get your kids vaccinated.

#1 this post didnt really refute my point at all.

#2 of those 3000-49000 people dead, how many are healthy people? Not 70+year olds with weak ass immune systems or young children with preexisting conditions. I refuse to believe the flu, for a healthy person living where good health care is available, is more than a minor inconvenience.

 

[fake]

#1 this post didnt really refute my point at all.

#2 of those 3000-49000 people dead, how many are healthy people? Not 70+year olds with weak ass immune systems or young children with preexisting conditions. I refuse to believe the flu, for a healthy person living where good health care is available, is more than a minor inconvenience.

To be fair, you can get pretty dehydrated... to the point where you have to go to the hospital. And that costs an assload of money. Add that to if you don't have paid sick days and you're eating dog food for the rest of the year.

 

[lithy]

For a second I did see a possible vaccine for tetris. Alas, it doesn't exist and I am far too far gone for it to help

(it's tetanus)

At least polo (water, elephant, and horse variety) has been mostly eradicated.