Why haven't any of you doll fuckers started a Game of Thrones topic?

Poonman

macebronian
15 Year Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2004
Posts
9,938
His death was consequential, not intentional. I get that.
I only labelled it as "payoff" on account of my own emotional investments, not Martins writing style.


Maybe I'm using the term incorrectly?
 
Last edited:

Taiso

Remembers The North,
20 Year Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2000
Posts
13,156
His death was consequential, not intentional. I get that.
I only labelled it as "payoff" on account of my own emotional investments, not Martins writing style.


Maybe I'm using the term incorrectly?

It's completely understandable that you may get invested in a narrative arc and then not be entirely thrilled with the resolution. You're good.

I wasn't specificallhy trying to point-counterpoint. It was more that you said something and it made me think about it: was the event satisfactory? Did I feel a cathartic payoff? I can't say I did, because I would have preferred a much more bloody and violent payoff than that. But that's the beautiful thing about historical fiction or fantasy written as pseudo-historical fiction. 'Better than they deserve' deaths happened in history all the time, and a lot of it had a karmic element when viewed in retrospect.

Sort of like King Henry V dying of dysentery, the bane of armies and the ender of wars up to the 20th century. I believe that the true cause of his death may be in question now, but for a long time that was the commonly attributed cause. Dude is a highly romanticized king, but he did some prety heinous shit while being labeled a' great monarch.' A miserable death was probably not as satisfying to those he slighted, but I'm sure they saw it as some form of divine retribution or providence.
 

Poonman

macebronian
15 Year Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2004
Posts
9,938
I guess the initial shock and fear of some caustic poison painfully shutting down your body (on your wedding day) is pretty badass when compared to say....Augusto Pinochet dying quick and painlessly at the age of 91 (without ever seeing the inside of a prison).
 
Last edited:

evil wasabi

The Jongmaster
20 Year Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2000
Posts
60,435
I am kind of bummed that the HBO people decided to completely dump Strong Belwas, and give his story over to Daario. In the books, that scene in Meereen where Daenerys picks a champion to face off against the lancer from Meereen was supposed to be with Belwas. It was a fantastic moment in the book. In the show, forgettable. And that is almost the tone for this season.

Forgettable.

I am not hating the season, but it's like the writers emasculating the source material with full conscious effort. I feel bad for the people who didn't read the books.
 

Taiso

Remembers The North,
20 Year Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2000
Posts
13,156
I find myself frustrated with them building scenes and dialogue where they aren't necessary while Jon Snow, a character that needs more screen time, continues to get the shaft.

That entire sequence with Sam and Gilly last night was completely unnecessary. It was, what, nearly ten minutes of screen time? And for what?

I will admit that Jon Snow is my favorite character in the books. and that may make my complaint seem subjective. But the reason he is my favorite character in the books is because Martin does all the right things to show his growth both in wisdom and skill. Also, Jon really takes charge of every situation he's in and he becomes 'the man' in so many instances.

In the TV show, he continues to be a bystander in his own story. I don't understand why the showrunners are doing this with Jon. I can't even hate on Harrington for his performance: the script and plotting just haven't given him any opportunity to grow into the leading man he is in the books. Do these fuckers even remember that he has an albino dire wolf watching his back at every turn? Where is Ghost? He had so much more of a presence in the books and he really lent Jon an air of importance and uniqueness. In the TV show, he's just another young member of the Night's Watch taking abuse from the idiots in charge.

In all other respects, I'm still enjoying it. When I watch, the show, I never realize where the time goes. I guess that's a good sign.

RE: Strong Belwas being replaced by Daario for that fight

To this day, I still don't understand why some version of Strong Belwas can't be in the TV show. What are the showrunners so afraid of? Showing a large black man that used to be a gladiator slave as a free man who indulges in food and drink and has a lust for life? Is this show really afraid of being labeled racist by some ignorant minority, given all the other ways in which it efforts to portray everyone as equals in terms of human worth, and that injustices are the fault of fictional characters and not cultural flaws of the plotting/writing?
 
Last edited:

evil wasabi

The Jongmaster
20 Year Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2000
Posts
60,435
I find myself frustrated with them building scenes and dialogue where they aren't necessary while Jon Snow, a character that needs more screen time, continues to get the shaft.

That entire sequence with Sam and Gilly last night was completely unnecessary. It was, what, nearly ten minutes of screen time? And for what?

I will admit that Jon Snow is my favorite character in the books. and that may make my complaint seem subjective. But the reason he is my favorite character in the books is because Martin does all the right things to show his growth both in wisdom and skill. Also, Jon really takes charge of every situation he's in and he becomes 'the man' in so many instances.

In the TV show, he continues to be a bystander in his own story. I don't understand why the showrunners are doing this with Jon. I can't even hate on Harrington for his performance: the script and plotting just haven't given him any opportunity to grow into the leading man he is in the books. Do these fuckers even remember that he has an albino dire wolf watching his back at every turn? Where is Ghost? He had so much more of a presence in the books and he really lent Jon an air of importance and uniqueness. In the TV show, he's just another young member of the Night's Watch taking abuse from the idiots in charge.

In all other respects, I'm still enjoying it. When I watch, the show, I never realize where the time goes. I guess that's a good sign.

RE: Strong Belwas being replaced by Daario for that fight

To this day, I still don't understand why some version of Strong Belwas can't be in the TV show. What are the showrunners so afraid of? Showing a large black man that used to be a gladiator slave as a free man who indulges in food and drink and has a lust for life? Is this show really afraid of being labeled racist by some ignorant minority, given all the other ways in which it efforts to portray everyone as equals in terms of human worth, and that injustices are the fault of fictional characters and not cultural flaws of the plotting/writing?

I am getting the idea that whoever is in charge of GoT doesn't know what she's doing, or she's purposefully using the source material to make something more palatable for the masses who can't read good, but want to do other stuff good too.
 

Castor Troy

The Esfinter that theMot Chupame's
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Posts
3,187
Glad I haven't read the books. Seems the book readers online hate the way the show is going.
I'm enjoying the season so far, but not like before.
My only complain so far is with Dany's storyline. I'm seriously bored with the whole "travel to the new city and free the slaves" plot. Unless something major happens, I don't see why any of this can't be condensed to a simple 10 second dialog explaining what is happening.
 

Taiso

Remembers The North,
20 Year Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2000
Posts
13,156
Glad I haven't read the books. Seems the book readers online hate the way the show is going.
I'm enjoying the season so far, but not like before.
My only complain so far is with Dany's storyline. I'm seriously bored with the whole "travel to the new city and free the slaves" plot. Unless something major happens, I don't see why any of this can't be condensed to a simple 10 second dialog explaining what is happening.

Why would other book readers that 'hate' the TV show make you glad you haven't reading the books? What a strange thing to say.

BTW, the scenes with Dany freeing slaves are important because they are ultimately building towards the kind of person and leader she is going to be. You haven't seen the parts of the story where her every action wisens her up and hardens her to the harsh realities of being a ruler. This is all actually pretty important, even though it may seem like it's not and even though some will inevitably say 'it still wasn't that important to show all that.' These people aren't interested in storytelling, world building and character development. They're just interested in plot, which is a terrible way to consume a story IMO.
 
Last edited:

Castor Troy

The Esfinter that theMot Chupame's
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Posts
3,187
Why would other book readers that 'hate' the TV show make you glad you haven't reading the books? What a strange thing to say.

BTW, the scenes with Dany freeing slaves are important because they are ultimately building towards the kind of person and leader she is going to be. You haven't seen the parts of the story where her every action wisens her up and hardens her to the harsh realities of being a ruler. This is all actually pretty important, even though it may seem like it's not and even though some will inevitably say 'it still wasn't that important to show all that.' These people aren't interested in storytelling, world building and character development. They're just interested in plot, which is a terrible way to consume a story IMO.

I understand her importance in freeing slaves are concerned, and I do hope the tv show does a better representation of her motives, but this storyline (as a non book-reader), has dragged for much too long.
Right now (as a non book reader), I'm more interested in what's happening with Tyrion, Bran, Sansa, and Arya.
 

evil wasabi

The Jongmaster
20 Year Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2000
Posts
60,435
I understand her importance in freeing slaves are concerned, and I do hope the tv show does a better representation of her motives, but this storyline (as a non book-reader), has dragged for much too long.
Right now (as a non book reader), I'm more interested in what's happening with Tyrion, Bran, Sansa, and Arya.

I think you mean Bron.
 

Taiso

Remembers The North,
20 Year Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2000
Posts
13,156
I understand her importance in freeing slaves are concerned, and I do hope the tv show does a better representation of her motives, but this storyline (as a non book-reader), has dragged for much too long.
Right now (as a non book reader), I'm more interested in what's happening with Tyrion, Bran, Sansa, and Arya.

Regarding Dany's arc, there is a kind of payoff to all of this, but it's not at all what you'll be expecting. Or maybe you will, but I have a strong feeling most viewers will not see it coming. Right now, she's still thinking about becoming queen of Westeros and reclaiming her birthright and being very idealistic. What comes next is yet another example of how the world works from Martin's pen. It's cool, but I'm fairly certain a lot of Dany fans will either be let down or confused. All of my coworkers are all eager to see her get across the Narrow Sea.

I just chuckle at them.

Do you not read books in general or do you not want to read these books specifically because you'd rather watch the TV show first?
 

LoneSage

A Broken Man
15 Year Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2004
Posts
42,677
Regarding Dany's arc, there is a kind of payoff to all of this, but it's not at all what you'll be expecting. Or maybe you will, but I have a strong feeling most viewers will not see it coming. Right now, she's still thinking about becoming queen of Westeros and reclaiming her birthright and being very idealistic. What comes next is yet another example of how the world works from Martin's pen. It's cool, but I'm fairly certain a lot of Dany fans will either be let down or confused. All of my coworkers are all eager to see her get across the Narrow Sea.

I just chuckle at them.

Do you not read books in general or do you not want to read these books specifically because you'd rather watch the TV show first?

taiso i'mma slice your throat unless you tell me what happens to dany in the books. spoiler tag, do anything, but i wanna know, bro.
 

evil wasabi

The Jongmaster
20 Year Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2000
Posts
60,435
taiso i'mma slice your throat unless you tell me what happens to dany in the books. spoiler tag, do anything, but i wanna know, bro.

Spoiler:

She meets Jon Snow and they have sex. Jon Snow then finds out she is his aunt. He prefers the time he knew nothing.
 

Taiso

Remembers The North,
20 Year Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2000
Posts
13,156
Spoiler:

She meets Jon Snow and they have sex. Jon Snow then finds out she is his aunt. He prefers the time he knew nothing.

BUT

Spoiler:
Then he realizes that he's half Targaryan and incest is part of the family business so he decides he'd rather tap that sweet aunt Dany ass than honor his vows. They have dragon wolf babies and they legalize incest. People in Westeros suddenly realize how depraved they really are and everybody starts fucking everyone else, regardless of relation, race or sex as spring sets in at long last. The people are unified in unsavory love after ages of separation. The end.


'sage, if you're being serious (long read):

Spoiler:
Dany realizes she's taken on more than she understood in freeing all these slaves. She frees them but they have been uneducated slaves all their lives and have depended on the cruel mercies of their masters just to survive. Having no one to turn to to provide for them and not knowing how to do it on their own, they beg her to help them. She grows a conscience about the whole thing and realizes that these people are likely going to die and kill each other if she abandons them to go west and claim her throne. So she decides to stop, or at least delay, her plans of conquest in order to rule the people she's now responsible for. There are some romantic intrigues with Daario, some heartbreaking dismissials of long standing allies and friends and consipriacies mount against her as people swoop to fill in the power vacuums left by her actions in Essos. She's generally overwhelmed and forced to compromise when she doesn't want to because she understands she doesn't know enough about the administration of a kingdom to do it herself, but to get the support of people that CAN do the job, she has to make concessions. The last thing that happened was that one of her dragons went nuts during a public event and in an attempt to calm him down she jumped on him and he flew away with her. He was badly wounded in the fighting leading up to his escape, and she is out in the desert with the dragon, all alone and no one knows where she is, and she's contemplating whether or not to even go back to all the complications she's just been carried away from, when a Dothraki horde led by one of Khal Drogo's men that refused to be loyal to her rolls up on her position, effectively surrounding her and her dragon. That's where her story sits at present until Martin decides to get off his ass and finish the next book.


EDIT: The fact that Castor Troy isn't intersted in Jon Snow's arc shows you how badly the TV show fucked his story up. In the books, he's consistently doing some of the most interesting stuff in the entire series.
 
Last edited:

evil wasabi

The Jongmaster
20 Year Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2000
Posts
60,435
Most people are more interested in Bron turning into a wolf, but they are going to be pissed when he turns into a tree.
 

Comrade Porn King Mikhail

TЗh ЯussiaИs Дre CФm
Joined
Oct 11, 2000
Posts
3,486
Ok, I'm glad you guys have explained a few of the confusing bits. I kept wondering what happened to Ghost. I thought that maybe he's somewhere just chewing on a deer and chilling out. This Belwas character also sounds better written than Daario. Speaking of which, anyone else frustrated that the repacement Daario looks nothing like the one from Season 3? I had to explain this to my fiancee's family and they just got even more confused. I was vetoed when I tried to draw a small map explaining the location of the slave cities.

Question for Was or Taiso: without spoiling much, do the books do a better job of explaining what happens to the slave cities once they're freed by Dany? I realize the show is glossing over a lot of the smaller bits, but I felt that they needed to address how exactly all the slaves are traveling with Dany and getting fed/housed/etc, as well as how cities like Quarth and Yunkai are able to continue to survive after having their populations uprooted and hegemony disrupted.

Finally starting the second book this week. Just don't want to get ahead of the show. But I'll likely catch up at the point where he releases the latest book. Otherwise spoilers may become very mainstream similar to what happened to the TWD TV viewers when Issue 100 came out.
 

evil wasabi

The Jongmaster
20 Year Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2000
Posts
60,435
Ok, I'm glad you guys have explained a few of the confusing bits. I kept wondering what happened to Ghost. I thought that maybe he's somewhere just chewing on a deer and chilling out. This Belwas character also sounds better written than Daario. Speaking of which, anyone else frustrated that the repacement Daario looks nothing like the one from Season 3? I had to explain this to my fiancee's family and they just got even more confused. I was vetoed when I tried to draw a small map explaining the location of the slave cities.

Question for Was or Taiso: without spoiling much, do the books do a better job of explaining what happens to the slave cities once they're freed by Dany? I realize the show is glossing over a lot of the smaller bits, but I felt that they needed to address how exactly all the slaves are traveling with Dany and getting fed/housed/etc, as well as how cities like Quarth and Yunkai are able to continue to survive after having their populations uprooted and hegemony disrupted.

Finally starting the second book this week. Just don't want to get ahead of the show. But I'll likely catch up at the point where he releases the latest book. Otherwise spoilers may become very mainstream similar to what happened to the TWD TV viewers when Issue 100 came out.

In the books, the freeing of the cities is a complete mess. The books explain this through the perspective of Dany and her thoughts about what's going on. As a television audience, you are denied this insight.
 

Taiso

Remembers The North,
20 Year Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2000
Posts
13,156
RE: Ghost off doing 'his own thing'-Even in the books, he is off doing his own thing, but the narrative always has him present at important moments to remind you that he's still around and is an eerie force in Jon's life. After Robb's death, the narrative goes out of its way to remind you that it's only when the wolves are near their adopted brothers and sisters that they are safe:

Look what happened to Sansa w/out Lady. Or look what Arya's going through without Nymeria. Bran and Rickon don't have it much better but at least they are relatively safe, comparatively speaking, and in the company of friends. As long as Ghost is with Jon, he is as safe as he can be in that situation. And he's protected. In the TV show, it almost feels like Ghost has done more for Sam than he has for Jon, and there is something wrong with that. Even the way Ghost has been portrayed as sort of aloof as it concerns Jon is just bad writing. Wolves are pack animals and they are strongest when closest to their kin. The books make sure the reader remembers that, and it's a fundamental element of the Stark children's storyline.

RE: Dany freeing all the slaves and the logistics of their caravan-I have a feeling this will all be given greater examination in the TV show after all the fighting's done. In order to highlight the next challenge Dany faces, they'll have to at least mention it in some detail to further illustrate the coming dilemmas.

RE: Strong Belwas as a more interesting character than Daario-I wouldn't necessarily say he's a more interesting character. Daario is very closely tied with Dany's narrative, whereas Strong Belwas is just a big dude that likes to laugh and get drunk and just so happens to be a battle hardened warrior. Removing him from the storyline doesn't really damage the narrative flow in any significant way, but his presence was fun and everything he said put a smile on my face. He was a colorful cnaracter, and I hope they find a way to bring him back into the mix.

RE: Recasting Daario-I'm glad they did it before they got too saddled with that poor man's Fabio. The new guy has a much better chemistry with Emilia Clarke than the previous guy did. That guy was just far too pretty and not dangerous looking enough. Daario is a dangerous person for Dany to be involved with, and they needed to cast someone that could pull off the complexity of their relationship better. Plus, he looks the way Daario is supposed to look. Not every character has to look identical to their book versions. Ser Jorrah Mormont, for example, looks vastly different in the TV show. In the book, he's a middle aged balding dude with some weight on him. In this show, he's more distinguished and handsome looking in a rugged way. If the actor is good enough and enough of the character dynamic can be retained, it's cool. But that guy they cast as Daario in season three wasa train wreck waiting to happen. Could have been a really bad jump the shark moment (sorry to use that old phrase). Glad they got rid of him, personally.
 
Last edited:

Nickrb

Angel's Love Slave
Joined
Dec 4, 2013
Posts
918
I am kind of bummed that the HBO people decided to completely dump Strong Belwas, and give his story over to Daario. In the books, that scene in Meereen where Daenerys picks a champion to face off against the lancer from Meereen was supposed to be with Belwas. It was a fantastic moment in the book. In the show, forgettable. And that is almost the tone for this season.

Count the cuts and you will know how many Strong Belwas has slain.

In the books, the freeing of the cities is a complete mess. The books explain this through the perspective of Dany and her thoughts about what's going on. As a television audience, you are denied this insight.

Emilia Clarke’s acting is also very meh. Very shallow subplot in the show.



none of them have a blue tipped triple goatee though.

They could've at least made this accurate.
 

evil wasabi

The Jongmaster
20 Year Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2000
Posts
60,435
Emily Clark's acting is a direct result of the directing and producing of the show; they're going all Jon Snow on us, knowing jack shit nothing about how to make the show right.

They might as well just get on with it and introduce the vampires wearing skinny jeans and hip glasses, and make Danaerys turn her attention to growing and selling milk of the poppy in order to raise money to feed her peoples.

They need to make a spinoff show about Bran escaping from King's Landing and becoming a sheriff in rural Pennsylvania, fighting the local crazy Amish and other criminals.
 

Magician

A simple man who simply loves gaming.
20 Year Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2002
Posts
10,336
LTTP

I only began watching the series these past couple weeks. So far I've watched all of season three and what has been released of season four. I'll get around to seasons one and two eventually although my friends have spoiled most of what happened in them. At first I just ignored the series...believing it was nothing more than HBO's attempt to pull a piece of the attention from Starz's Sparticus series.

I was wrong.
 

Taiso

Remembers The North,
20 Year Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2000
Posts
13,156
I'm completely flabbergasted by your post, Mags.

You are waaaaaaaaaaay too smart a person to display this degree of media ignorance.

Nintendo damaged you, I think. Hopefully not beyond repair.
 

BladeDancer314

Windjammers Wonder
Joined
Dec 8, 2013
Posts
1,399
first of all I've not read thru this entire thread so if it's already discussed get over it lol

anyways, about the white walker that just took the baby, the one riding the horse.

didn't he take a knife (dragon glass) to the back and shatter into a million pieces last season??????
 
Top