Why haven't any of you doll fuckers started a Game of Thrones topic?

Castor Troy

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I agree, it still entertaining to say the least. I'm just down 'cause we saw the white walkers coming and we have yet to see what happened with them, are they under way, are the white walkers gonna finally take everything down, you know what I mean, so may sub plots that the main ones are getting buried it seems. Guess I'm just inpatient.

I'm on the same page. Seems like what ever is happening now will be meaningless when the creatures from the north come down beyond the wall.
I just don't like the idea that everything will be resolved in some 20 or so episodes. I hope this show has at least 9 seasons for everything to fall into place.
Also, I wish the internet will stop using the word "rape" for what happened at the end of this last episode.
Spoiler:
Sansa knew what she was going to have to do. She was given a choice and went along with it.
She never once said "no", "stop", or even fought off.
Yeah, it was very messed up and tough to watch, but she seemed to understand how the game works.
 

Electric Grave

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OH my sweet Sansa, I really love her Nordic looking face, just heavenly wide forehead that's common on them women form the north. Reminds me of a redhead I dated way back, used to call her sunset, of course she ate it up like it was candy, some red heads have this unreal pink to them, heavenly indeed...
 

Taiso

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LOL this show

Spoiler:
There is no legitimate reason for Jon Snow to leave Ghost behind except so that there can be a cool scene in the show protecting Sam. So fucking stupid.
 

evil wasabi

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LOL this show

Spoiler:
There is no legitimate reason for Jon Snow to leave Ghost behind except so that there can be a cool scene in the show protecting Sam. So fucking stupid.


The high point of last night was Bran's jail cell scene.
 

Dark Sakul

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I do feel we are at the point at the TV Show where the Show is out pacing the books
and the books and TV cannon are diverging.
 

Taiso

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The high point of last night was Bran's jail cell scene.

Well it would have to be, wouldn't it?

I seriously think they're doing everything they can to ruin Jon and Danaerys in the TV show.

Also, I've completely turned on Dinklage. I like the guy's acting well enough but I really want them to just kill Tyrion. I'm sick of looking at him on the TV show.
 

evil wasabi

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Well it would have to be, wouldn't it?

I seriously think they're doing everything they can to ruin Jon and Danaerys in the TV show.

Also, I've completely turned on Dinklage. I like the guy's acting well enough but I really want them to just kill Tyrion. I'm sick of looking at him on the TV show.

Here's the problem:

Dinklage owns GoT. He is the first name on the credits. Then Nikolai Kevin Costner , then Lena Headey.

I mean, they really feel that those three are the show, and those three, no matter what, figure into every episode, even if Jon Snow and Daenerys don't.

Dinklage is the new Steve Urkel. Don't cross him. He will destroy you.
 

LoneSage

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it's really disheartening hearing how subpar this new season is

Maybe the producers forgot what made the first season great
 

Castor Troy

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it's really disheartening hearing how subpar this new season is

Maybe the producers forgot what made the first season great

It's not a bad season. There are some pretty badly shot scenes and the show tends to drag at times. From what I heard, the books also seem to drag at this point.
This last episode was pretty good especially the stuff at King's Landing.
 

Taiso

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Here's the problem:

Dinklage owns GoT. He is the first name on the credits. Then Nikolai Kevin Costner , then Lena Headey.

I mean, they really feel that those three are the show, and those three, no matter what, figure into every episode, even if Jon Snow and Daenerys don't.

Dinklage is the new Steve Urkel. Don't cross him. He will destroy you.

Yeah, and that is going to be an issue because the first four seasons stuck so close to the source in so many fundamental ways that them wildly diverting just feels completely wrong in tone.

Well, to be honest, they've dropped the ball on both Jon and Jamie big time. Pretty much from the second season on, Jon's been a 'ghost' (heh) of the character that he's supposed to be.

My god, they totally fucked up his tenure as the Lord-Commander. They spend all this time in the show building him to it and then once he has it, it doesn't fucking mean anything at all. It hasn't changed anything about the TV version of the character at all. Watch any scene with Jon Snow. The other characters always have the last word. The show writes the character terribly. Take away Ghost and take away his agency and he's just a character with no mystique standing around waiting for things to happen to him. He's pretty much the complete opposite of how he is in the books.

And with Jamie, they went off the rails with him last season and he hasn't recovered. I like the twist with Bron going with him but sending him to Dorne is all tonally wrong to me. It's just been a terrible development to me. Jamie should have gone there as a member of the Kingsguard on a royal commission to negotiate new terms for Myrsella. That would have fit the show and it would have helped Jamie to rediscover the parts of him that he's lost since he stabbed the mad king in the back. That is the character's arc, the only thing that truly makes him interesting. His fall and subsequent rise. And it would have much better fit this show's penchant for people standing around talking to each other.

Meanwhile, they have bullshit scenes with Grey Worm and Tyrion that mean absolutely nothing and don't advance those characters at all.

These guys need to watch some Spartacus. Not for the blood and violence and sex, which are all also better than how it's handled in GoT, but because Spartacus understood fucking pacing. No wasted effort on that show. All killer, no filler. For real.
 
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theMot

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And with Jamie, they went off the rails with him last season and he hasn't recovered. I like the twist with Bron going with him but sending him to Dorne is all tonally wrong to me. It's just been a terrible development to me. Jamie should have gone there as a member of the Kingsguard on a royal commission to negotiate new terms for Myrsella. That would have fit the show and it would have helped Jamie to rediscover the parts of him that he's lost since he stabbed the mad king in the back. That is the character's arc, the only thing that truly makes him interesting. His fall and subsequent rise. And it would have much better fit this show's penchant for people standing around talking to each other.


This part of the plot in particular is all a bit stupid. The Dorne guy in the wheel chair seems fairly reasnoble of what little we have seen of him. Couldn't Jaime have just come in the front door and talked to him? Seems odd to me. I know there is bad blood between the Lannisters and Martells but still. Either way the last couple of episodes have been much better than the first half of this seasons so hopefully it stays at this level for the remaining episodes.
 
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terry.330

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The high point of last night was Bran's jail cell scene.

I'd say it was one of the high points of the entire show thus far.

If they would have shown the trim it would have been the greatest thing ever televised.
 

evil wasabi

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Yeah, and that is going to be an issue because the first four seasons stuck so close to the source in so many fundamental ways that them wildly diverting just feels completely wrong in tone.

Well, to be honest, they've dropped the ball on both Jon and Jamie big time. Pretty much from the second season on, Jon's been a 'ghost' (heh) of the character that he's supposed to be.

My god, they totally fucked up his tenure as the Lord-Commander. They spend all this time in the show building him to it and then once he has it, it doesn't fucking mean anything at all. It hasn't changed anything about the TV version of the character at all. Watch any scene with Jon Snow. The other characters always have the last word. The show writes the character terribly. Take away Ghost and take away his agency and he's just a character with no mystique standing around waiting for things to happen to him. He's pretty much the complete opposite of how he is in the books.

And with Jamie, they went off the rails with him last season and he hasn't recovered. I like the twist with Bron going with him but sending him to Dorne is all tonally wrong to me. It's just been a terrible development to me. Jamie should have gone there as a member of the Kingsguard on a royal commission to negotiate new terms for Myrsella. That would have fit the show and it would have helped Jamie to rediscover the parts of him that he's lost since he stabbed the mad king in the back. That is the character's arc, the only thing that truly makes him interesting. His fall and subsequent rise. And it would have much better fit this show's penchant for people standing around talking to each other.

Meanwhile, they have bullshit scenes with Grey Worm and Tyrion that mean absolutely nothing and don't advance those characters at all.

These guys need to watch some Spartacus. Not for the blood and violence and sex, which are all also better than how it's handled in GoT, but because Spartacus understood fucking pacing. No wasted effort on that show. All killer, no filler. For real.

I feel like what you really want is for STARZ to take over GoT, which would be kind of incredible really. A few years ago my cousin and I discussed how great it would be if STARZ did wheel of time or Elric. Both series need to be brought to TV and could be done really well. Although the way networks go, I think only AMC has the stamina for WoT, which they would ruin regardless, because AMC is a garbage network that has only offered one right done show, BB.
 

Taiso

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I feel like what you really want is for STARZ to take over GoT, which would be kind of incredible really. A few years ago my cousin and I discussed how great it would be if STARZ did wheel of time or Elric. Both series need to be brought to TV and could be done really well. Although the way networks go, I think only AMC has the stamina for WoT, which they would ruin regardless, because AMC is a garbage network that has only offered one right done show, BB.

I think STARZ doing an Elric show would be the most fucking incredible thing ever. Can you imagine an Elric show in the Spartacus vein?

The show's budget would be a little higher because they'd need to recreate a lot of crazy magical effects like all the 6000 foot tall chaos gods and all the weird shit that's in the stories. It would be a bigger project than anything they've tackled before. But I'd love to see them try. Get DeSouza at the helm and it would be gold.

As for GoT, what I REALLY want is for HBO to stop doing story beats just to wow audiences and start telling stories that make sense, are consistent and deal with unintended consequences. It doesn't have to be the books in exacting detail, because it hasn't been so far, but some of the decisions they're making now feel like when LOST went off the rails and the writers were just plotting to shock rather than actually show a basic understanding of the principles and fundamental elements of the characters and the general story.
 
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smokehouse

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I don't read the books...so take what I'm about to say for what its worth.

It seems the Night's Watch is falling apart...if this is true, this is a good thing.

Since the end of the White Walkers...basically all the NW did was guard the wall from the wildlings. Big whoop. An endless battle to no end. Poorly equipped, poorly trained bunch of social misfits that really, had a pointless job. Keeping a bunch of savages behind a giant ice wall...hooray.

With the return of the White Walkers...the brotherhood isn't enough to stop them...not by a long shot. Dismantling the NW, joining forces with the wildlings and having an "all hand on deck" approach to defending the world of the living from the world of the dead is darn near the only chance they'll have. If the NW is left to stand as it was for 1000 years, rules, regulations and traditions would have assured the an early defeat.

I may be 100% with this...who knows...but this is how I see it.
 

Taiso

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I don't read the books...so take what I'm about to say for what its worth.

It seems the Night's Watch is falling apart...if this is true, this is a good thing.

Since the end of the White Walkers...basically all the NW did was guard the wall from the wildlings. Big whoop. An endless battle to no end. Poorly equipped, poorly trained bunch of social misfits that really, had a pointless job. Keeping a bunch of savages behind a giant ice wall...hooray.

With the return of the White Walkers...the brotherhood isn't enough to stop them...not by a long shot. Dismantling the NW, joining forces with the wildlings and having an "all hand on deck" approach to defending the world of the living from the world of the dead is darn near the only chance they'll have. If the NW is left to stand as it was for 1000 years, rules, regulations and traditions would have assured the an early defeat.

I may be 100% with this...who knows...but this is how I see it.

Well, the way I see it, you're partially right. Or more accurately, I think there are more details to consider.

The Night's Watch is an organization that has fallen on hard times because a token force is all that's been needed. Even with the giants north of the wall, which no one believed existed until fairly recently when they attacked, they were sort of minding their own business.

But believing that 'all hands on deck' is the right way to go about it might not really be the answer. If Westeros takes a vested interest in the north, then when the threat is dealt with all of the meddlesome politics will come into play too. Once the rest of the world believes that there is crazy shit up there, how long will it be before everyone wants to use it to their advantage? The Targaryans did it with dragons and conquered all of Westeros with them. The dragons were their trump. And notice when the dragons died out, so did any hope they had of holding on to the throne.

So Westeros isn't the answer. Not unless they change their ways and become more honor bound. The Starks were the best wardens of the North because their simple virtues and honor, while seemingly outdated by most Westerosi standards, are mostly incorruptible. They're not a good fit for the rest of the world, but they're perfect for running things in the North. The Starks were also the most staunch supporters of the Night's Watch and, in fact, it was a Stark that founded the order to begin with. Also, the Starks have the blood of the first men in them and are still observant of the old gods and their ways. They are the only ones that truly understood the North because they were able to exist as a buffer between the North and the rest of Westeros.

And the Lannisters, in a typical political power grab, have fucked all that up. And rather than try to make restitution for Joffrey's colossal fuckup in executing Ned, they fought back and used politics to crush them. This is where their scheming and machinations will come back to bite them in the ass.

Meanwhile the Maesters are preaching knowledge and science and saying that things North of the wall are superstition and fairy tales, and that has taken root in Westeros so much that even the most learned of noblemen, of which Tyrion is representative because all he did was read books, drink and whore, don't believe the myths.

My theory, which has not been borne out by the books and is purely speculation based on all the books and the short stories and the side material that Martin wrote, such as the Worlds of Ice And Fire and so forth:

The Maesters, in their infancy, helped forge the Wall to keep winter (the white walkers) in the North. They enchanted the Wall with magic to be a living thing (as it is in the books) that will not permit the undead to venture beyond the Wall. In the books, it's established that the undead can't go past the Wall as long as it stands. Then they decided to erase all knowledge of the White Walkers and disavow magic in favor of science in the hopes that people would forget about it and carry on. In their minds, as long as the Night's Watch continued to receive support from a strong Westeros, unaware of the truth, then the knowledge and fear that comes with knowing such things would not paralyze Westeros or, worse, cause people to try to exploit it in such a way as to bring about another, oh I don't know, doom of Valyria. Another Valyria is the real thing the Maesters fear, that magic will be misused and cause another plague to spread for which there is no cure. It's all tied to that, in my opinion.

As long as the Night's Watch was vigilant to fight off the attacks, the White Walkers couldn't damage or destroy the wall, thus opening their path to the rest of Westeros. When the Starks say 'Winter is Coming', it's a warning against the White Walkers,and as they get closer to the Wall the winter grows more harsh. The reason Westeros has such long winters is because the White Walkers have become increasingly difficult to push back. Now, with the Night's Watch being a token force, they don't have enough to stand against them. Also, they've been building their strength for a long time to where even the wildlings are really scared. Shit, even the GIANTS are scared. So they want to get south of the Wall because they know it will keep the White Walkers away from them.

The Boltons are ill equipped to deal with their newfound responsibilities as wardens of the North. They are northmen, true, but they are too mired in the politics of Westeros to respect or realize the gravity of the situation. The Starks are gone. The Night's Watch is a pittance, a mere shadow of their former selves, because of politics and corruption and ages and ages of disregard.

So Jon is doing the only thing he can do: trying to convince the wildlings to fight beside him, unite two lifelong enemies against a bigger threat. And when it's all done, the wildlings will inherit the North, the mystical realm that still worships the old gods and the old ways and a land to which they are well suited to living in. This may not bring the Starks back into power (or it may) but it'll definitely be a sign of the new way.

As for the Starks, I believe that Rickon Stark will eventually rise and become the King in the North.

Sansa will end up with Tyrion. He was very gentle and nice to her, and he'll come to realize that he loves her and she'll realize what a great person he is. And the little guy needs to be happy and deserves a win. This will end the war between the Starks and Lannisters once and for all.

Bran will become the new green man and stay in the north and help guide the wildlings.

Arya will always be a Stark in her heart and she will be reunited with Jon at some point (I think him giving her a sword at the beginning of the show and their emotional separation shows they had a close relationship), but she will be full fledged assassin by that point, living in Westeros and being No One.

Jon will continue to work with the wildlings. With the Night's Watch disbanded, he will no longer have to stay there and:

Spoiler:
He will ascend the throne beside Danaerys as Jon will be revealed to be the son of Rhaegar Targaryan and Leanna Stark. This makes him the true king of Westeros, a direct descendant of the blood of the king -Mad King Aerys -> Rhaegar -> Jon - and, in medieval settings like this, male grandsons have a more legitimate claim to the throne than daughters. Jon and Danaerys will fall in love at first sight and even though she is his aunt, they are roughly the same age and Targaryans like to keep it in the family anyway so this generally works out


Oh and fuck the Boltons and the Frays. They will all drown in lakes of blood.
 
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smokehouse

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Well, the way I see it, you're partially right. Or more accurately, I think there are more details to consider.

The Night's Watch is an organization that has fallen on hard times because a token force is all that's been needed. Even with the giants north of the wall, which no one believed existed until fairly recently when they attacked, they were sort of minding their own business.

But believing that 'all hands on deck' is the right way to go about it might not really be the answer. If Westeros takes a vested interest in the north, then when the threat is dealt with all of the meddlesome politics will come into play too. Once the rest of the world believes that there is crazy shit up there, how long will it be before everyone wants to use it to their advantage? The Targaryans did it with dragons and conquered all of Westeros with them. The dragons were their trump. And notice when the dragons died out, so did any hope they had of holding on to the throne.

So Westeros isn't the answer. Not unless they change their ways and become more honor bound. The Starks were the best wardens of the North because their simple virtues and honor, while seemingly outdated by most Westerosi standards, are mostly incorruptible. They're not a good fit for the rest of the world, but they're perfect for running things in the North. The Starks were also the most staunch supporters of the Night's Watch and, in fact, it was a Stark that founded the order to begin with. Also, the Starks have the blood of the first men in them and are still observant of the old gods and their ways. They are the only ones that truly understood the North because they were able to exist as a buffer between the North and the rest of Westeros.

And the Lannisters, in a typical political power grab, have fucked all that up. And rather than try to make restitution for Joffrey's colossal fuckup in executing Ned, they fought back and used politics to crush them. This is where their scheming and machinations will come back to bite them in the ass.

Meanwhile the Maesters are preaching knowledge and science and saying that things North of the wall are superstition and fairy tales, and that has taken root in Westeros so much that even the most learned of noblemen, of which Tyrion is representative because all he did was read books, drink and whore, don't believe the myths.

My theory, which has not been borne out by the books and is purely speculation based on all the books and the short stories and the side material that Martin wrote, such as the Worlds of Ice And Fire and so forth:

The Maesters, in their infancy, helped forge the Wall to keep winter (the white walkers) in the North. They enchanted the Wall with magic to be a living thing (as it is in the books) that will not permit the undead to venture beyond the Wall. In the books, it's established that the undead can't go past the Wall as long as it stands. Then they decided to erase all knowledge of the White Walkers and disavow magic in favor of science in the hopes that people would forget about it and carry on. In their minds, as long as the Night's Watch continued to receive support from a strong Westeros, unaware of the truth, then the knowledge and fear that comes with knowing such things would not paralyze Westeros or, worse, cause people to try to exploit it in such a way as to bring about another, oh I don't know, doom of Valyria. Another Valyria is the real thing the Maesters fear, that magic will be misused and cause another plague to spread for which there is no cure. It's all tied to that, in my opinion.

As long as the Night's Watch was vigilant to fight off the attacks, the White Walkers couldn't damage or destroy the wall, thus opening their path to the rest of Westeros. When the Starks say 'Winter is Coming', it's a warning against the White Walkers,and as they get closer to the Wall the winter grows more harsh. The reason Westeros has such long winters is because the White Walkers have become increasingly difficult to push back. Now, with the Night's Watch being a token force, they don't have enough to stand against them. Also, they've been building their strength for a long time to where even the wildlings are really scared. Shit, even the GIANTS are scared. So they want to get south of the Wall because they know it will keep the White Walkers away from them.

The Boltons are ill equipped to deal with their newfound responsibilities as wardens of the North. They are northmen, true, but they are too mired in the politics of Westeros to respect or realize the gravity of the situation. The Starks are gone. The Night's Watch is a pittance, a mere shadow of their former selves, because of politics and corruption and ages and ages of disregard.

So Jon is doing the only thing he can do: trying to convince the wildlings to fight beside him, unite two lifelong enemies against a bigger threat. And when it's all done, the wildlings will inherit the North, the mystical realm that still worships the old gods and the old ways and a land to which they are well suited to living in. This may not bring the Starks back into power (or it may) but it'll definitely be a sign of the new way.

As for the Starks, I believe that Rickon Stark will eventually rise and become the King in the North.

Sansa will end up with Tyrion. He was very gentle and nice to her, and he'll come to realize that he loves her and she'll realize what a great person he is. And the little guy needs to be happy and deserves a win. This will end the war between the Starks and Lannisters once and for all.

Bran will become the new green man and stay in the north and help guide the wildlings.

Arya will always be a Stark in her heart and she will be reunited with Jon at some point (I think him giving her a sword at the beginning of the show and their emotional separation shows they had a close relationship), but she will be full fledged assassin by that point, living in Westeros and being No One.

Jon will continue to work with the wildlings. With the Night's Watch disbanded, he will no longer have to stay there and:

Spoiler:
He will ascend the throne beside Danaerys as Jon will be revealed to be the son of Rhaegar Targaryan and Leanna Stark. This makes him the true king of Westeros, a direct descendant of the blood of the king -Mad King Aerys -> Rhaegar -> Jon - and, in medieval settings like this, male grandsons have a more legitimate claim to the throne than female daughters. Jon and Danaerys will fall in love at first sight and even though she is his aunt, they are roughly the same age and Targaryans like to keep it in the family anyway so this generally works out


Oh and fuck the Boltons and the Frays. They will all drown in lakes of blood.

Great reply...

...but don't forget about Petyr Baelish...who, in my opinion, will land up with the iron throne in the end.

My guess?

Danaerys gives up the iron throne...the kingdom, broke due to debts to the iron bank and the mostly defunct Lannisters, will fall to mild ruin and she will basically raise a new empire from her current throne. Baelish will get the throne he always wanted only to find out it is a ruin of an empire.

Danaerys will team with Tyrion and they will team with Jon (if he lives...somehow my guy tells me he won't) and Sansa, the oldest living heir/bloodline of the true warden of the North will team with them. Between the two, a new empire will form. Baelish, in the end, will ironically get what he wants...only to find it is worthless.


...again...I know nothing Jon Snow...so take it for what its worth...
 

Taiso

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Ahahaha Taiso's spoiler is the stuff that makes me smile.

I'm not sure if it's because you think it's dead on or if you're amused by a fan's myopic dreams.

I believe this story will have a happy ending when it's all said and done. Martin himself is a sucker for happy endings even if he tells dark stories.

I don't see Baelish getting a worthless throne. I think that's a bit too on point. But who knows?
 

smokehouse

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I'm not sure if it's because you think it's dead on or if you're amused by a fan's myopic dreams.

I believe this story will have a happy ending when it's all said and done. Martin himself is a sucker for happy endings even if he tells dark stories.

I don't see Baelish getting a worthless throne. I think that's a bit too on point. But who knows?

Baelish has consistently been the smartest one in the story (or, at least he is in my eyes). Smart, cunning, slow to react and effective...he has made quite the name for himself, quietly.

He and Arya are easily my two favorite plot-lines of the show thus far...
 

Taiso

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Baelish has consistently been the smartest one in the story (or, at least he is in my eyes). Smart, cunning, slow to react and effective...he has made quite the name for himself, quietly.

He and Arya are easily my two favorite plot-lines of the show thus far...

He's even more cunning in the books but yeah, Baelish is pretty awesome overall. And the actor playing him is fantastic. He definitely fits the role as I imagined it in my head and he's pulling it off nicely.

In the TV show version, I am really digging Brienne's storyline although in the books hers is a far more futile struggle. She's always a day late and a dollar short in the books despite her best efforts and considerable skill as a warrior, but in the TV show they've maneuvered her into a position where she can actually make a difference in a more direct capacity.

I also like Arya's storyline in the show. Mostly because it is perfect in the books and they've translated it very well. Having her be separated from everyone else allows her to stick close to it. I imagine in the TV show she'll end up near Danaeryis and Tyrion, if not directly with them.

I also like Jorrah Mormount's storyline. I'm always a sucker for redemption stories and here is a sad tale of a tragic knight that kept making mistakes until he realized he had a noble cause to fight for. I hope it turns out well for him.

And as much as she plays a total cunt on the show, Lena Heady's performance as Cercei is so criminally underrated that somebody needs to be flogged for not recognizing how amazing she is. Every time I see her sharply arched eyebrows I want to slap her. And it's a pretty fine line between playing a sophisticated schemer (Cercei) and just an annoying bitch.

I also thought Charles Dance was great as Tywin. I'd read a book about young Tywin rising to power in the Lannister family.
 
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