720p VS 1080i

[Buro Destruct]

I run my 360 on 1080i. I have to since it's a 34" widescreen CRT but at no time, whether with HD sports or my 360 games, does any amount of blurring occur no matter the speed of movement onscreen.

Pixel refresh my friend.

 

[jro]

The HD sets are huge and weigh a ton as well. LCDs keep dropping in price too.

I actually bought and paid for a CRT HDTV at Circuit City once. I think it was a 36".

When it required THREE employees to lift it and they admitted that it weighed exactly 234 pounds (no kidding), I realized it would have the potential to crush the shelves in my entertainment center and I decided to pick up an LCD set instead.

I had just had my wisdom teeth removed, and I'm sure that lugging that sumbitch up two flights of stairs probably would have popped all my stitches, and quickly.

 

[thirdkind]

I actually bought and paid for a CRT HDTV at Circuit City once. I think it was a 36".

When it required THREE employees to lift it and they admitted that it weighed exactly 234 pounds (no kidding), I realized it would have the potential to crush the shelves in my entertainment center and I decided to pick up an LCD set instead.

I had just had my wisdom teeth removed, and I'm sure that lugging that sumbitch up two flights of stairs probably would have popped all my stitches, and quickly.

Sony used to offer a 40" 4:3 HD-compatible Wega CRT that clocked in at over 300 lbs. It was a monster, but it's also the finest 4:3 display I've ever seen.

Retailers are happy to see the CRT die. They're a bitch to ship and store in inventory.

"Purists" evangelize the CRT as the ultimate display device, but they have their own set of artifacts and limitations that are less objectionable simply because we've been living with them for 60 years.

 

[thirdkind]

Pixel refresh my friend.

The phosphors on a CRT fluoresce and fade much more slowly than LCD pixel rise/fall times. Most people would never pick up on the trailing effect it produces because they've seen it their entire lives without realizing it.

 

[JHendrix]

The phosphors on a CRT fluoresce and fade much more slowly than LCD pixel rise/fall times. Most people would never pick up on the trailing effect it produces because they've seen it their entire lives without realizing it.

If I can pick your knowledgable brain, could you tell me of any major issues playing games at 1080i on a CRT set? I'm looking at this set in the next month and am figuring that it should have a decent picture on it.

Would you really reccomend a LCD set over a CRT set, especially for gaming?

 

[hanafuda]

Interlaced signals are displayed as alternating fields, not frames. Each 1080i field is 1920x540, but those 540 lines are different in each field and the fields alternate 60 times per second, so the resolution your eyes see is 1920x1080. This perceived resolution drops during fast motion because of the inherent limitations of interlaced signals and displays.

Why would this drop during fast motion? I don't follow. The TV is still operating in the same way regardless of what is happening on the screen (fast or slow motion).

 

[Bishamon]

Why would this drop during fast motion? I don't follow. The TV is still operating in the same way regardless of what is happening on the screen (fast or slow motion).

Because while the image is moving, each feld of data is only 1920x540, so one field is always 1/60th of a second behind the next. This can be most easily seen during medium pans where the background or a large object has a clearly defined edge.

At 1280x720, each entire frame is drawn at 60fps, so there is less image degradation during mition.

 

[RAINBOW PONY]

Sony used to offer a 40" 4:3 HD-compatible Wega CRT that clocked in at over 300 lbs. It was a monster, but it's also the finest 4:3 display I've ever seen.

ive seen that set, over a year ago when I bought my 34 XBR, the local bestbuy had a display model 40 XBR on clearance for 1299, it was so fucking big, they even had it on the floor, it was probably a bitch to get up onto a stand, hell I don't know many stands that can hold over 300lbs.

 

[thirdkind]

If I can pick your knowledgable brain, could you tell me of any major issues playing games at 1080i on a CRT set? I'm looking at this set in the next month and am figuring that it should have a decent picture on it.

Would you really reccomend a LCD set over a CRT set, especially for gaming?

Sony's 34XBR960 is regarded by many, including professionals, to be the finest consumer CRT display ever released.

The 34XBR970, which is what you linked to, is said to be a somewhat watered-down model rather than a step up from the 960. It doesn't have the Super Fine Pitch tube, which is what gives the 960 its ability to resolve such incredible detail. If I were you, I'd try hard to find the 960 on clearance someplace.

There are pros and cons to every technology. Honestly, I can't see how anyone would be disappointed with the 34XBR960 in any way. I think it's a fine choice for both movies and gaming.

Anyone discussing the differences between 720p and 1080i is picking nits. 1080i on a natively 1080i display looks phenomenal.

Enjoy your TV.

 

[galfordo]

I don't think CRTs are a viable option anymore. The cost isn't low enough relative to LCDs to make it worth the sacrifices you are making for it, most notably huge differences in color, contrast, and display options. The HD sets are huge and weigh a ton as well. LCDs keep dropping in price too.

Not positive what you're saying here, but CRT's are still king in terms of color accuracy and contrast. They're size-limited and morbidly obise as you mentioned, and some of the newer lcd's have terrific picture quality (notably Samsung and Sony's Bravia series) that's is actually closing in very quickly on CRT. All in all, CRT's are losing their appeal very quickly, but can be an attractive choice for old-school gamers who do lots of 480i gaming.

 

[Buro Destruct]

The phosphors on a CRT fluoresce and fade much more slowly than LCD pixel rise/fall times. Most people would never pick up on the trailing effect it produces because they've seen it their entire lives without realizing it.

Is this then the reason he doesn't notice any blurring on his CRT?

Interesting.

 

[Argentina94]

Is this then the reason he doesn't notice any blurring on his CRT?

Interesting.

I honestly can't say it's because I've used a CRT all my life, like most of the population, but the blurring was evident on my brother's LCD.

I see absolutely no blurring whatsoever running anything at al in 1080i on my set, something my brother can't boast since I saw the hockey game with ghosting so I'm sure if he bought a 360, he should definitely set it to 720p.

To be honest, I'm still not sold on any of the plasmas and LCDs available and still think the CRT delivers the best for all worlds but it's my personal opinion based on what my eyes see.

For moving pictures and lifespan, I prefer the tried and true method. And in HD, I still marvel at the display after nearly 2 years of owning it.

The World Cup in particular blew me away.

 

[thirdkind]

I honestly can't say it's because I've used a CRT all my life, like most of the population, but the blurring was evident on my brother's LCD.

I see absolutely no blurring whatsoever running anything at al in 1080i on my set, something my brother can't boast since I saw the hockey game with ghosting so I'm sure if he bought a 360, he should definitely set it to 720p.

CRT "trailing" looks different than LCD "blurring", and is only noticeable with certain program material (small, bright objects moving across a dark background tend to produce a trailing effect on CRTs). LCDs with poor response time produce blurring during most scenes, so it's noticeable all the time.

Not positive what you're saying here, but CRT's are still king in terms of color accuracy and contrast.

They're really only color accurate because their color reproduction capabilities were made into a standard (specifically, SMPTE-C). The color gamut of film goes way beyond CRTs' capabilities and many current digital displays can reproduce wider color gamuts than CRTs. As LCDs and projection displays evolve to include LED and laser light sources, we'll have displays with gamuts far exceeding that of CRT.

As for contrast, CRTs have traditionally been tops in on/off contrast, which makes them really good at fade-to-black scenes. In terms of ANSI contrast, which determines depth during mixed scenes, DLPs became the champs at that years ago. Since most material is mixed or bright with occasional dark scenes, digitals produce more depth during more scenes than CRTs, but it's that last 10% that CRTs do really, really well that make them the choice for many users.

 

[IMTheWalrus]

If I can pick your knowledgable brain, could you tell me of any major issues playing games at 1080i on a CRT set? I'm looking at this set in the next month and am figuring that it should have a decent picture on it.

Would you really reccomend a LCD set over a CRT set, especially for gaming?

Don't get me wrong. I think you can get a nice picture out of the Sony CRTs in particular. I just don't think they are the right choice right now.

Though, as somebody in this thread pointed out, if you are doing a lot of 480i gaming, CRTs are a pretty good choice. If they were cheaper, I would consider finding one to do all of the old school systems and to only do that. I must say I'm satisfied with the way my LCD outputs for the older systems for me though. Even the Neo looks nice, which I can't say for the other HD set in my house, which is a early HD set that happens to be a projection tube.

Regarding LCDs vs. CRTs, I would say that the issues people have with LCDs vary from brand to brand. The nicer LCDs really don't have the blurring effects that some of the cheaper brands or older sets have. I was looking at the Sony 34" CRT when I was looking for a TV. I compared the picture with the Panasonic LCD I ended up getting, and I just thought the picture looked better on the Panasonic. In particular, I found that the LCD could produce richer, fuller colors.

 

[JHendrix]

Don't get me wrong. I think you can get a nice picture out of the Sony CRTs in particular. I just don't think they are the right choice right now.

Though, as somebody in this thread pointed out, if you are doing a lot of 480i gaming, CRTs are a pretty good choice. If they were cheaper, I would consider finding one to do all of the old school systems and to only do that. I must say I'm satisfied with the way my LCD outputs for the older systems for me though. Even the Neo looks nice, which I can't say for the other HD set in my house, which is a early HD set that happens to be a projection tube.

Regarding LCDs vs. CRTs, I would say that the issues people have with LCDs vary from brand to brand. The nicer LCDs really don't have the blurring effects that some of the cheaper brands or older sets have. I was looking at the Sony 34" CRT when I was looking for a TV. I compared the picture with the Panasonic LCD I ended up getting, and I just thought the picture looked better on the Panasonic. In particular, I found that the LCD could produce richer, fuller colors.

My problem is one of Price. I'd rather not spend upwards of $2G's on a HDTV that's under 42", and it seems that all the decent LCD HD sets are going to be priced well near that range and will not be at the size I'd expect to get at that price level. If I were going to spend that kind of change on a TV I'd be getting a DLP projection set instead, and since you've seen my entertainment setup at the get-togethers I think getting a set that big wouldn't be good for the room.

Looking at the $1200 max spending range, I was assuming that the CRT would give me the best picture for the price since I'm not sure I know enough about LCD sets to ensure that I get a good set at that price level.

 

[hanafuda]

So, er, if you put two sets of systems running the same game on the same hardware, one set at 480i and the other at 480p, and asked people to say which is which, would the average person be able to give the correct answer (without just guessing)?

 

[thirdkind]

So, er, if you put two sets of systems running the same game on the same hardware, one set at 480i and the other at 480p, and asked people to say which is which, would the average person be able to give the correct answer (without just guessing)?

Assuming the display is deinterlacing that 480i signal to 480p, no. I doubt any average user could tell the difference because you'd be comparing the deinterlacing abilities of the display to the deinterlacing abilities of the source when outputting 480p. The differences would be subtle unless the display's deinterlacing is awful.

Now if that display is keeping 480i as 480i and not performaning any deinterlacing, then yes, 480p should be visually superior. Side by side, 480p will look more solid and less flickery than a 480i display.

 

[IMTheWalrus]

My problem is one of Price. I'd rather not spend upwards of $2G's on a HDTV that's under 42", and it seems that all the decent LCD HD sets are going to be priced well near that range and will not be at the size I'd expect to get at that price level. If I were going to spend that kind of change on a TV I'd be getting a DLP projection set instead, and since you've seen my entertainment setup at the get-togethers I think getting a set that big wouldn't be good for the room.

Looking at the $1200 max spending range, I was assuming that the CRT would give me the best picture for the price since I'm not sure I know enough about LCD sets to ensure that I get a good set at that price level.

You'd be surprised at how much LCDs have come down. I spent $1400 on my 32" LCD back in February. I just saw the Sony 32" LCD somewhere for like $1300 within the past week. Keep your eyes open and you'll find a decent deal. Maybe even a nice set for $1200 or lower.

I can see in your area not wanting something bigger than a 34" screen too. You have a nice setup going, and if you were to go bigger than that you would basically have to rip everything out and put together something new (which ends up adding considerable cost for all the little things you end up buying).

 

[JHendrix]

You'd be surprised at how much LCDs have come down. I spent $1400 on my 32" LCD back in February. I just saw the Sony 32" LCD somewhere for like $1300 within the past week. Keep your eyes open and you'll find a decent deal. Maybe even a nice set for $1200 or lower.

I can see in your area not wanting something bigger than a 34" screen too. You have a nice setup going, and if you were to go bigger than that you would basically have to rip everything out and put together something new (which ends up adding considerable cost for all the little things you end up buying).

Taking a look at the sets I'd probably want at least 1600:1 contrast and about 500nits brightness. I also can't seem to find a good place that tells me the refresh on the panels. I found a nice LG set that's about $1400, but I'd like to verify that the refresh is 16ms or lower. It probably is, but I just like to verify stuff.

The biggest thing for me is the weight, I like the idea of not having a 180lb TV as that makes moving so much easier. The problem is the size difference in the screen as well as some worries I have about picture quality in non HD signals which make up a lot of viewing that I do (normal TV, anime, etc). I realize that 720p > 1080i but I'm not sure. The extra $200 cuts into my "buy a XBox 360 with my HDTV fund".

Still I'll see what extra cash I have after Otakon rolls around and see how I like the picture on the LCD vs the CRT. Would be nice if they let me hook a 360 up to both and see what the picture looked like.

 

[IMTheWalrus]

Taking a look at the sets I'd probably want at least 1600:1 contrast and about 500nits brightness. I also can't seem to find a good place that tells me the refresh on the panels. I found a nice LG set that's about $1400, but I'd like to verify that the refresh is 16ms or lower. It probably is, but I just like to verify stuff.

The biggest thing for me is the weight, I like the idea of not having a 180lb TV as that makes moving so much easier. The problem is the size difference in the screen as well as some worries I have about picture quality in non HD signals which make up a lot of viewing that I do (normal TV, anime, etc). I realize that 720p > 1080i but I'm not sure. The extra $200 cuts into my "buy a XBox 360 with my HDTV fund".

Still I'll see what extra cash I have after Otakon rolls around and see how I like the picture on the LCD vs the CRT. Would be nice if they let me hook a 360 up to both and see what the picture looked like.

Cool. I'm not sure what the LG refresh is, but I think it's 16 or lower.

When are you coming in for Otakon? Because I'll be taking off that Thursday, so if you are in the area you are welcome to stop by and I'll show you how my TV outputs 360 in 720p and 1080i.

 

[terry.330]

Though, as somebody in this thread pointed out, if you are doing a lot of 480i gaming, CRTs are a pretty good choice. If they were cheaper, I would consider finding one to do all of the old school systems and to only do that. I must say I'm satisfied with the way my LCD outputs for the older systems for me though. Even the Neo looks nice, which I can't say for the other HD set in my house, which is a early HD set that happens to be a projection tube.

Bingo.

This is what I did. About 4 years ago I bought a Sony Trinitron specifically for old school games and full screen TV viewing. Knowing that within the next few years I'd end with something 720p or 1080i for movies HDTV and high-res gaming. Ended up with a Bravia a few months ago and it couldn't have worked out better.

 

[T.A.P.]

What does Sony's 34XBR960 display in? 720p, 1080i, or 1080p?

 

[Argentina94]

Still I'll see what extra cash I have after Otakon rolls around and see how I like the picture on the LCD vs the CRT. Would be nice if they let me hook a 360 up to both and see what the picture looked like.

That would be the best way to find out the set you really want. No one here will help with that decision as much as your eyes will.

 

[thirdkind]

What does Sony's 34XBR960 display in? 720p, 1080i, or 1080p?

480p and 1080i.

 

[RAINBOW PONY]

hendrix stop being a fucking n00b and buy an HDTV, for all you're bitching you still don't have one

::goes to play GRAW in 720p::