A semi-serious discussion on transgender issues

StevenK

ng.com SFII tournament winner 2002-2023
10 Year Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2012
Posts
10,149
I see Biden has decided to elevate gender identity above sex.

Can women's sport survive long term under these pressures?

Can women survive long term under these pressures, come to think of it?

How are such a tiny minority group effecting so much sweeping change?
 

Lagduf

2>X
20 Year Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2002
Posts
46,751
What do you mean Biden has chosen to elevate gender identity above sex?
 

StevenK

ng.com SFII tournament winner 2002-2023
10 Year Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2012
Posts
10,149
What do you mean Biden has chosen to elevate gender identity above sex?

Gender identity - what you feel like you are
Sex - what you were born

He has signed the executive order 'Preventing and Combating Discrimination on the Basis of Gender Identity or Sexual Orientation'. In practice this means you can't deny people access to women's spaces, women's sports, women's safe spaces even, based on the gender they were born.
 

SouthtownKid

There are four lights
20 Year Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2003
Posts
26,968
The only place where it will really have any kind of noticeable negative effect is women's sports. Biological women athletes are fucked. But I don't really give much of a fuck about sports, women's or otherwise, so whatever.

You can say this is a vast majority being held hostage to the demands of a tiny majority, but then, what are wheelchair ramps? Are they so bad?

The only thing I worry about is moves like this provoking drastic overcorrection in the other direction whenever Republicans next gain power.
 

Lagduf

2>X
20 Year Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2002
Posts
46,751
Gender identity - what you feel like you are
Sex - what you were born

He has signed the executive order 'Preventing and Combating Discrimination on the Basis of Gender Identity or Sexual Orientation'. In practice this means you can't deny people access to women's spaces, women's sports, women's safe spaces even, based on the gender they were born.

I still don’t understand your premise.

Sex is protected in the workplace, now gender appears to be to.
 

Lagduf

2>X
20 Year Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2002
Posts
46,751
The only place where it will really have any kind of noticeable negative effect is women's sports. Biological women athletes are fucked. But I don't really give much of a fuck about sports, women's or otherwise, so whatever.

You can say this is a vast majority being held hostage to the demands of a tiny majority, but then, what are wheelchair ramps? Are they so bad?

The only thing I worry about is moves like this provoking drastic overcorrection in the other direction whenever Republicans next gain power.

The sports will just be based on your sex. Not gender.

Is it discrimination to point out that scientifically men and women are physically different? It’s not like this is a crackpot, junk science.

The idea that trans woman are going to earn all the gold at the olympics in what men’s sports is ridiculous.
 

NeoSneth

Ned's Ninja Academy Dropout
20 Year Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2000
Posts
11,105
Women's sports and bathrooms will make a comeback once they realize how filthy men can be in there.
 

Syn

There can be only one.
10 Year Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Posts
9,091
Women's sports and bathrooms will make a comeback once they realize how filthy men can be in there.

Obviously you've never had to clean a ladies restroom. They are so nasty.
 

SouthtownKid

There are four lights
20 Year Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2003
Posts
26,968
The sports will just be based on your sex. Not gender.
That's not what's been happening. Biological females are already being pushed out of women's sports in a few cases at the high school level by biological males identifying as female. There's also been at least one case of a biological male identifying as female who beat the shit out of a biological female in the UFC.

Is it discrimination to point out that scientifically men and women are physically different? It’s not like this is a crackpot, junk science.
It is currently considered transphobic to bring science into the discussion. What you just said will get you shut down and viciously attacked almost anywhere on the internet. It will be a while before there is a correction to a fair, less feelings-based middle ground.

The idea that trans woman are going to earn all the gold at the olympics in what men’s sports is ridiculous.
Trans women competing in men's sports is not the problem, and as far as I'm aware, hasn't been happening anywhere. The problem is trans women competing (and dominating) in women's sports, which has begun happening.
 

LoneSage

A Broken Man
20 Year Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2004
Posts
44,862
It is currently considered transphobic to bring science into the discussion. What you just said will get you shut down and viciously attacked almost anywhere on the internet. It will be a while before there is a correction to a fair, less feelings-based middle ground.

Yeah this is a big problem. What Steve wrote in his first post, many people on the internet would say he is transphobic and hates trans people. He would even get banned on other forums for it. A few weeks ago I got banned because I said 'in general, women are more overprotective of their children than fathers are'. Which isn't backed up by science, just in my personal experience. I got called a sexist and got piled on by loads of people for that one comment and eventually permabanned. Kind of a wake up call for me what life is like in America in 2020.

God bless the bastion of freedom on the internet, neo-geo.com/forums.

How are such a tiny minority group effecting so much sweeping change?

That is a weird thing. Culture changed so fast in regards to trans people. 15 years ago South Park did an episode about Mr. Garrison being mentally ill for doing gender reassignment surgery and most people thought it was funny and didn't bat an eye. Nowadays JK Rowling has been dubbed to be transphobic because she criticized an ad for using the term 'people who menstruate' instead of the word 'women'. I mean, just yikes.
 

StevenK

ng.com SFII tournament winner 2002-2023
10 Year Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2012
Posts
10,149
ahh yes, the "sanctity" of sports.

It's easy to write sports off as irrelevant, but what are the further implications of this? Would you be ok with seeing an ever increasing % of female college scholarships going to transwomen?

Every which way you look at this issue, women get shit all over, yet again.

The end point of all of this is the cancellation of all sex defined policy. If any man can self identify as a woman then, and vice versa, then what is the point in distinguishing? Same sex toilets, same sex prisons, same sex rape crisis centres?

Obviously it won't get to this - there will be a backlash as people wake up to the realisation that this isn't an easy-win same sex marriage situation, this is far far more complicated because wins on one hand mean losses elsewhere.

There are lesbians being called transphobes because they say they wouldn't have sex with a woman with a dick. It's already gotten very silly. So where will the balance eventually be drawn, I am wondering?

My true thoughts on this? At the risk of sounding like a self loather such as yourself, norton, it feels like men, unsatisfied with controlling the world, have decided they now want to control being a woman too, and to even their own incredulity they are making great strides.

P.s. neorebel, I appreciate that article but it's far from the unequivocal proof it claims to be. I'm no expert whatsoever on these matters but it took me 30 seconds to find an extremely coherent and persuasive rebuttal of every point the article makes. I'm not saying there isn't bias in here, I'm just saying that opposing views are equally convincing, any thoughts of it being 'clear cut' are short lived.

 

SouthtownKid

There are four lights
20 Year Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2003
Posts
26,968
ahh yes, the "sanctity" of sports.
Like I said, I don't give a fuck about sports. But there have now been at least a couple cases where it's cost biological females university scholarships they were depending on. If you were someone from a low income family who trained your whole life in order to parlay that into your one chance for an education at your dream university, I could see being upset about it.

But it must be comforting to be a hardliner and live in a world without nuance, context, or individual circumstance, where you only have to care about unfairness traveling in one direction and not in any other.
 

@M

Vanessa's Drinking Buddy,
20 Year Member
Joined
Feb 10, 2003
Posts
7,174
Women and girls should just rise up and kill 99% of men/boys, keeping only 1% for breeding stock until science advances to the point where chromosomes from one egg can be used to fertilize another and males become obsolete. Make Amazons Great Again!
 

smokehouse

I was Born This Ugly.,
15 Year Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2005
Posts
12,919
Making gender identity a legal issue is a really bad idea. I also agree that doing this is bad for women in general.

Who you want to be in your daily life is one thing, demanding the complete set of legal rights of a different gender is something entirely different.

Lastly, we're knee deep in the age of being called an -ist or -phobic the second you do not agree with someone unconditionally, which is also dangerous ground.
 

lithy

Most Prominent Member of Chat
20 Year Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2002
Posts
22,052

That biological argument, the only one of the three I've made it through so far, is complete bunk.

You know which other biological trait requires specific timing of the activation of a genes in utero? A normal palate.

Yet we consider cleft palate to be a birth defect, not some alternate choice of lifestyle.

People can I course do and say whatever they want, they can ask for pronouns. Issues arise when government thinks it will police speech or force accomodations of what I still think is basically an abnormal or at least atypical mental state.
 
Last edited:

2D_mastur

Is he greater than XD Master?
10 Year Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2009
Posts
4,963
I feel bad for bio-women athletes, thats all I will say.
 
Top