Anyone still playing Warhammer 40K these days? (tabletop game)

[HeartlessNinny]

I'm pretty sure Red Paint Job is the best special rule ever. Certain parts of my Trukk's engine are painted red (so it will go faster).

I used to know a guy who had his trukk driver's goggle lenses painted red, so he thought it would go faster... And, ergo, actually go faster. It's a great rule.

What I want to know is when a new Ork Codex comes out. There's nothing overtly wrong with the old Andy Chambers 3rd Ed. one, but it could use some sprucing up if you ask me.

 

[tsukaesugi]

Is anyone familiar with the Cities of Death Supplement/Expansion? I know I'm a noob still and should concentrate on getting a grasp on the rules and getting my army done, but i'll be damned if GW's cities of death tables aren't the sweetest things ever.

Ha ha, Orky as much as you are, dude, slow down.

 

[Lagduf]

Ha ha, Orky as much as you are, dude, slow down.

Hahaha, don't worry i'm not picking it up. Just wondering. It looks cool.

When I told Phil (the owner of the local game store) that I was interested in getting some 40K stuff he made sure to point out that he had the Apocalypse expansion book just in. I just laughed. The armies you need to field for that are insane.

I mostly wanted to look at that Cities of Death book for terrain/modeling tips. The modeling and terrain building tips in GW's Lord of the Rings supplements were pretty good - they had some nice ideas for terrain and such.

Anyway like I said, i'm focusing on painting my battleforce (20 boyz, 3 bikez, 1 trukk) and my warboss so I can field a 500ish point army (figured out some more upgrades I could do to get the point total higher).

But have you seen the GW Modular Cities of Death Terrain? It is nothing short of amazing.

I'm going to field these units first then focus on terrain.

 

[Rassilon]

On the subject of the old rules vs the new rules would anyone care to give me a breakdown on what is different?

So far i've gathered that the old rules are more complex, perhaps giving you more tactical options. Apparently the HtH combat is better in one of the older editions (but how, I don't know).

From playing many wargames i've learned that more complexity does not always equate to a better game. It just depends on what you're trying to model. I own several Tactical, small scale (man to man up to platoon), WW2 board games each at different levels of complexity from the real easy stuff like Panzer Grenadier or Ambush!, to Combat Commander: Europe, all the way up to the beast that is Advanced Squad Leader. They're all fine games in their own right - each with mechanics and a complexity level that suits what they're trying to model.

Anyway, a lot of discussion of the rules probably isn't much help for me yet until i get a few games under my belt. I'm going to the local game store on wednesdays to see if the homeboys there can show me the ropes. I've read the 4th ed rule book before, but it's been awhile.

A full list of what is wrong/lame with 3/4th ed rules would be nearly as long as the rulebook itself...

But here are a few examples:
-all races have the same move rate (yea, and ork can move just as fast as an eldar...)
-many basic weapon ranges have been nerfed (in some cases you can move as far as you can shoot in one turn)
-you CANT THROW grenades (they are ONLY used for hand to hand. wtf?)
-target selection rules have a huge flaw (your heavy weapon in a squad is not allowed to target a different unit. ie, either all of your bolters waste their fire against a tank, or the missile launcher wastes its fire against a unit reg. troops)
-if ANY member of a squad moves, the whole squad counts as moving (your heavy weapon cant fire if any other members reposition)
-HtoH, while improved in the basic rules, is a bit TOO fast and often somewhat over powered.
-Armor save and AP system is lame as hell (armor save is fixed, as opposed to have a modifier based on the weapon. makes basic weapons less useful, but only against armies like marines. is part of what makes 3/4 LESS balanced than 2ed. "SMEQ" space marins or equiv. are definitely top tier)
-Cover system is lame as hell. (space marines get absolutely no benefit from cover against most weapons. 2ed had a penalties to hit from cover, which is apparently too much math for the kiddies)

And heres one big non-rules complaint, that will apply specifically to you:
Orks have been made REALLY FUCKING LAME in 3/4th ed.
GW killed all of their character and charm, and took away pretty much all of their interesting and fun weapons/equip and rules.
I love Orks, they were my first army, and it kills me how they sucked all the life and fun out of them.

SO, short breakdown, new rules reallly REALLY blow. seriously. I will give 5th ed a fair chance, but as of now 4th ed eats balls.

As far as WYSIWYG, i'm a big believer in it. Saying that a particular ork squad is heavy armored or what not is no biggie, or "this guy has a heavy bolter, not what hes carrying" is no big deal either..
But if seen people pull "this D&D dragon is really an ogryn" and other really lame ass shit that looks NOTHING like the unit is is a proxy for.

 

[Lagduf]

Well the Trukk is almost done, i'll get some pics up.

@Rass - thanks for the insights on the differences between old 40k and new 40k!

 

[Lagduf]

Holy. mother. of. god.

I just put together my warboss.

I swear that was the hardest model i've ever put together and it's only a single fig that fits on a 40mm base. The way the pieces fit together wasn't 100% perfect (but pretty close).

I had difficulty gluing the pieces together, any tips for putting together metal models? I used super glue.

I have been using plastic model glue for my all plastic guys.

Edit:

the Trukk is done, but I probably could add some more detail, but I'm keeping my hands off it for now. I can't obsess over 1 model when i have 24 more languishing.

I'll get some pics soon.

Lets see, what else have I done? I have 3 warbikez assembled and base coated with the riders all painted, just need to paint the bikes, which shouldn't take too long.

I have 10 boys assembled ('ard boyz with shootas) and i'm still working on cleaning mold lines for the pieces of the other 10 boys. Once that's done i'll put them together.

Just put the warboss together too (he arrived today).

After all the boyz are assembled i'm going to base them, then spray paint them. Half the boys will get black base coat, the other half will get a white base coat (the trukk boyz will have lots of red).

Anyway, I'm waiting until a nice day (been rainy lately) so I can spray paint sometime in the early evening (feels less humid around 6pm at least....not sure if it actually is...).

Anyone currently working on anything for 40k?

 

[HeartlessNinny]

Holy. mother. of. god.

I just put together my warboss.

I swear that was the hardest model i've ever put together and it's only a single fig that fits on a 40mm base. The way the pieces fit together wasn't 100% perfect (but pretty close).

I had difficulty gluing the pieces together, any tips for putting together metal models? I used super glue.

I have been using plastic model glue for my all plastic guys.

Rule one: don't use plastic glue. It'll break after a while, fall apart, and fuck up your paint job. Which I don't have to tell you... sucks. You have to use super-glue.

Rule two: pin the joints. If you don't know what this means, it basically entails drilling a hole on either side of the joint and putting a small piece of wire in there. When you glue it together after doing that, the hold is about a million times stronger (give or take a few factors of magnitude ).

Rule three: if the model is particularly top heavy, weigh down the base if you can. I glue some pennies to the bottom sometimes, but on the 40mm base, you can't really do that... I dunno. Get creative I guess.

I suppose that's all I'd say for metal assembly... Count yourself lucky at least. It used to be that all the fuckers were metal, and what tiny oases of plastic there were sucked ass like you wouldn't beleive. Those old plastics are the worst models GW has ever put out, no joke. Well, except the old Genestealers. But everything else sucked.

Plus, can you imagine putting together a, say, 200 model Imperial Guard army, every model a pewter model? No thanks...

Other than that, practice, practice, practice. Believe me, it does get a lot easier. And if you can, start with crappier models so you can get used to the process, that way your showpieces really look their best.

Good luck man. I'm glad to hear your progress is so brisk!

(As for me, my local store is getting Warhammer in soon — like a few weeks/couple months soon. I can't fucking wait. )

 

[Lagduf]

Rule one: don't use plastic glue. It'll break after a while, fall apart, and fuck up your paint job. Which I don't have to tell you... sucks. You have to use super-glue.

Rule two: pin the joints. If you don't know what this means, it basically entails drilling a hole on either side of the joint and putting a small piece of wire in there. When you glue it together after doing that, the hold is about a million times stronger (give or take a few factors of magnitude ).

Rule three: if the model is particularly top heavy, weigh down the base if you can. I glue some pennies to the bottom sometimes, but on the 40mm base, you can't really do that... I dunno. Get creative I guess.

I suppose that's all I'd say for metal assembly... Count yourself lucky at least. It used to be that all the fuckers were metal, and what tiny oases of plastic there were sucked ass like you wouldn't beleive. Those old plastics are the worst models GW has ever put out, no joke. Well, except the old Genestealers. But everything else sucked.

Plus, can you imagine putting together a, say, 200 model Imperial Guard army, every model a pewter model? No thanks...

Other than that, practice, practice, practice. Believe me, it does get a lot easier. And if you can, start with crappier models so you can get used to the process, that way your showpieces really look their best.

Good luck man. I'm glad to hear your progress is so brisk!

(As for me, my local store is getting Warhammer in soon — like a few weeks/couple months soon. I can't fucking wait. )

I thought about pinning the model's arms but I didn't. I'll see how he holds ups, but i'll pin my next metal models for sure (probably some Orks in Mega Armour). Super glue seems to be working great. I actually tried some epoxy which didn't work well, and I used my model glue until I realized it was a glue for plastic only (yeah i'm stupid). Anyway, cleaning the glue of the model was a pain. Super glue worked like a champ though (appears to be working well).

I tried to balance the dude on the 40mm base the best I could, but i'll probably have to put some weight on the bottom like you suggest.

I'm glad I got in to this hobby when the core of the troops were plastics, though I know some people swear by metal figs. Seems like conversions and such are easier with plastic.

Ah well, at least my Warboss fig looks badass.

 

[Rassilon]

I use thick or extra thick CA glue, works great for metal and plastic. Just file/trim to try to get the mating surfaces to fit as closely as possible.

I pin the joints if its a particularly fragile or poorly fitting joint, or if its a heavy piece with a small contact surface (like an arm with a big weapon or something), but otherwise i dont bother.

GW's molding processes are incredibly sloppy (being somewhat involved in manufacturing, its staggering how crappy their process control is). it can take a bit of extra work with the file and knife to get things together and looking good.

But even so, metal figs >> plastic. GWs newer plastics are much better than much of their older stuff, but metal is still best. More detail, more durable.
I find it easier to tweak/customize metal (you can often bend limbs instead of cutting/repositioning) with better results.

Not to mention that GW charges basically the same price whether its metal or plastic (they charge based somewhat/largely on points cost. completely asinine).

you need to run, not walk, and find you a copy of the older ork books:
1st edition ork army book

2nd edition ork codex

See what youre missing, and get lots of great background and fluff about how the orks are supposed to be, before GW turned them into these lame ass "gorka-morka" ork crap (gorka-morka was a GW side game with orks as they are now, with which they sadly replaced the good old orks in 40k)

 

[NeoGeo Hunter]

I think about it once a week or so, but then remember I barely get to buy the games I want as it is. It's not just expensive, it's time consuming as well. And don't even get me started as to how painting minis affects my mild case of OCD..

So I stick with the PC version of 40k.

Now if all my local friends got into it again, they would probably have little trouble dragging me in. I keep praying they continue to abstain.

Agreed, I love the pc version especially wh40k dark crusade! but wh battle march, for the xbox 360 will be even better!

 

[RAINBOW PONY]

Dawn of War is great/bad game.

Great for the graphics and how cool it theoretically is, bad for it's execution.

The gameplay sucks.

 

[Late]

But even so, metal figs >> plastic. GWs newer plastics are much better than much of their older stuff, but metal is still best. More detail, more durable.
I find it easier to tweak/customize metal (you can often bend limbs instead of cutting/repositioning) with better results.

Not to mention that GW charges basically the same price whether its metal or plastic (they charge based somewhat/largely on points cost. completely asinine).

you need to run, not walk, and find you a copy of the older ork books:
1st edition ork army book

2nd edition ork codex

See what youre missing, and get lots of great background and fluff about how the orks are supposed to be, before GW turned them into these lame ass "gorka-morka" ork crap (gorka-morka was a GW side game with orks as they are now, with which they sadly replaced the good old orks in 40k)

Word.

The orks are (modelwise atleast) generic goffs atm. Me, never fielded an ork army but I loved the bad moon figures for their looks

 

[Lagduf]

Bummmmp from the grave.

So I swear I'll get some pics up soon, I started taking some, then the batteries on my camera gave out and I can't find my battery charger (+ extra charged batteries) or my USB cable to connect the camera to my pc. Lolz, i fucking suck.

I have everything from the Battleforce box painted now. I'm pretty pleased with how all the figs turned out, and i've learned a lot.

I am working on my Warboss next, and I just bought another box of Boyz (which you can get 11 boyz out of, even though the box says 10!).

The addition of 10 more boyz will bring me up to 499 points

After I get the Warrboss and 10 more boyz done i'm going to take a break from purchasing any new models (lord knows they are expensive enough) and try my
hand at building some terrain.

I just don't want to have too many things on my plate at once.

500 points of Orks (from memory):

HQ: Warboss with Slugga, Big Choppa, 'Eavy Armor

Fast Attack: Three Warbikerz with Sluggas, Choppas, and Dakkaguns - one Biker is a Nob with a Big Choppa

Troops: Trukk Boyz Mob (12 boyz) with Sluggas, Choppas, and stikkbombs - One boy is a Nob with a Power Klaw and one boy has a Rokkit Launcher.

Troops: Blood Axe Shoota Mob (20 boyz) with Shootas. One boy is a Nob with Powerklaw, One Boy has a Big Shoota, and another Boy has a Rokkit launcha.

Dedicated Transport: Trukk with Red Paint Job (it's soooooo fast!)



There is a lot of 40k stuff on demonoid.com...


Any tips for using Dull Coat? I finally picked up some Testors Dull Coat. I'm guessing I should spray it on lightly?

 

[Late]

I'd rather use a paint-on varnish, at least on figures.

With a spray can you can easily give the model too thick a coat and it'll end up looking naff.

Our fantasy battle project is coming along nicely, and in this case the new rules actually improve the game, the 2-3rd ed whfb was kinda clunky and magic played too big a role, even though nowadays the army lists seem overtly simplified.

I just got the new Vampire Counts armies book, having fielded Skaven, High Elves and Chaos (Khorne) armies earlier, and I am just appalled at the figures, the new 'monster' looking vampires are just ridiculous.

I'll probably do some slight converting on empire/bretonnia/dogs of war characters + I want my human levies :P

 

[tsukaesugi]

With a spray can you can easily give the model too thick a coat and it'll end up looking naff.

That's especially true of the GW "'Ardcoat Spray". Too much of that will ruin a miniature. I don't use it anymore, period.

I'd say any kind of spray on gloss is dangerous, but spray dullcoat is safe. I usually use multiple coats of that every time I finish a figure. You just gotta take it easy, and don't go all Orky on everything.

Duf, you can also screw up the detail on a figure by using too much spray-on primer, or by spraying the primer from too close. Don't go all Orky with that either!

And get those pics up!

 

[HeartlessNinny]

That's especially true of the GW "'Ardcoat Spray". Too much of that will ruin a miniature. I don't use it anymore, period.

I'd say any kind of spray on gloss is dangerous, but spray dullcoat is safe. I usually use multiple coats of that every time I finish a figure. You just gotta take it easy, and don't go all Orky on everything.

Duf, you can also screw up the detail on a figure by using too much spray-on primer, or by spraying the primer from too close. Don't go all Orky with that either!

And get those pics up!

Yeah, just take it easy and spray coat is fine. You need less than you think, just keep that in mind. It saves an insane amount of time. Just be careful.

Anyways. Yeah pics, we wanna see that shit. Orks FTW.

 

[Lagduf]

That's especially true of the GW "'Ardcoat Spray". Too much of that will ruin a miniature. I don't use it anymore, period.

I'd say any kind of spray on gloss is dangerous, but spray dullcoat is safe. I usually use multiple coats of that every time I finish a figure. You just gotta take it easy, and don't go all Orky on everything.

Duf, you can also screw up the detail on a figure by using too much spray-on primer, or by spraying the primer from too close. Don't go all Orky with that either!

And get those pics up!

Yeah, spray praint can be a fickly beast if you don't know what the hell you are doing. I try hard not to get too much primer on my figures, as I am aware of it runing detail, which makes painting the mini suck. These days I usually err on the side of "not enough" primer instead of too much.

I'll approach the dull coat in the same way I suppose. I'll just have to take a fig and test it out I suppose before I spray them all.

 

[Late]

You're painting 500pts of figures, so the time-saving factor of the spray primer is hardly a concern?

Just use the normal kind black/white/etc... paint that you probably already have and dilute it slightly with water. The basecoat doesn't have to be opaque for it to function in the intended way and doing it by hand, you run no risk of ruining the figures.

 

[Lagduf]

You're painting 500pts of figures, so the time-saving factor of the spray primer is hardly a concern?

Just use the normal kind black/white/etc... paint that you probably already have and dilute it slightly with water. The basecoat doesn't have to be opaque for it to function in the intended way and doing it by hand, you run no risk of ruining the figures.

I just use black (or white) spray paint as my primer. It does save a lot of time, plus as Tsuk mentioned earlier, it helps to lock on the basing material after it's been glued.

I actually don't have a large pot of black paint at the moment anyway (or white)...yes I could go buy them cheap, blah blah blah

Priming all the figures by hand would take far too long especially given that there is a workable alternative that literally takes no time at all and achieves very satisfactory (dare i even say, good!) results.

I have no issues spray painting figures now. All of my 40K basecoats have come out just fine.

 

[tsukaesugi]

Yeah, spray praint can be a fickly beast if you don't know what the hell you are doing. I try hard not to get too much primer on my figures, as I am aware of it runing detail, which makes painting the mini suck.

Sorry, I didn't want to seem like I was lecturing you - I'm not sure what you already know about modelling, and what you're not sure of / used to yet, so I was erring on the side of caution, and overexplaining.

Can't wait to see your Trukk. If I have time this weekend I'll try and get some more pics up myself.

 

[Lagduf]

Sorry, I didn't want to seem like I was lecturing you - I'm not sure what you already know about modelling, and what you're not sure of / used to yet, so I was erring on the side of caution, and overexplaining.

I didn't think you were lecturing at all, for all I knew the testors dullcoat may have had to of been applied heavy! The instructions on it are sort of lacking. The only reason I know anything at all about spray paint is because my sister taught me the correct way to use a can (she was using a lot of spray paint for her art stuff for awhile) and like I said I have used far to much on mini's when I first decided to try a miniatures game (GW's Lord of the Rings) about 2 years back. I have learned the hard way

I guess all spray cans are pretty much the same in their application? Whether it be paint or some other kind of coat?

I've seen a lot of people online are dipping their figures in to some kind of varnish and then (I believe) still applying a dull coat? You know anything about that?

I need to get some textured paint for terrain making purposes.

 

[tsukaesugi]

I didn't think you were lecturing at all, for all I knew the testors dullcoat may have had to of been applied heavy!

OK, good. If I do start lecturing please let me know.

I've only been back into Warhammer since February of last year, but in between 1981* and 1995 I ate, drank, and slept the hobby. So I'm hoping I still know a quite bit about it.

I love modelling very much, and I enjoy both talking about it with people who are already into it, and encouraging people who are getting into it. So if my enthusiasm gets the better of me, please forgive me.

I guess all spray cans are pretty much the same in their application? Whether it be paint or some other kind of coat?

Yeah, pretty well. Stick to short, half second blasts 30cm / 12" away from the model. If it doesn't completely coat, it's better to spray more blasts from farther away than a stronger longer blast up close. Those close blasts are more liable to eat detail than a series of far away blasts. And again, you get much more leeway with dullcoat than with primer or glosscoat.

II've seen a lot of people online are dipping their figures in to some kind of varnish and then (I believe) still applying a dull coat? You know anything about that?

I've seen a site advertising that kind of varnish too. I think it has something to do with speedpainting - you only paint your figures in solid shades and then dip it in the varnish for an all around wash effect. I don't think there's any point if you're not speedpainting, in fact, it may screw up your figure.

I need to get some textured paint for terrain making purposes.

GW "Roughcoat" spray works great for that.

Years ago I heard about mixing gritty liquid bathroom cleaner with white paint - I tried it back in the day and it worked well. I also heard about mixing sand and white paint, so I tried that recently and mold started growing in the paint pot I kept it in.

*In 1981 all we had was RAFM, Ral Partha, & Grenadier minatures; and Poly S Floquil and Testor's paints. They were dark dark ages.

 

[Late]

Ha, I remember Ral Partha figures for various Ad&d worlds + CoC.

Here's a big 'everything warhammer' forum > http://warseer.com/forums/

^Seems like a good place, me, I'm a noob when it comes to online discussion/communities of all things wh.

Looked at one local forum but it was pretty lame with what seemed like a bunch of kids all lined up to buy the latest that gw wants to stuff down their throats.

 

[Lagduf]

Years ago I heard about mixing gritty liquid bathroom cleaner with white paint - I tried it back in the day and it worked well. I also heard about mixing sand and white paint, so I tried that recently and mold started growing in the paint pot I kept it in.

*In 1981 all we had was RAFM, Ral Partha, & Grenadier minatures; and Poly S Floquil and Testor's paints. They were dark dark ages.

Hahaha mold? Thats gross.

Did you purchase the sand or did you just pick it up from outside?

I think you are right about the speedpainting w/ varnish. I've seen it used on Orks primarily, though some were using it on Necrons I believe.

@late:

I've been checking out the blog Bell of Lost Souls that Tsuka linked too earlier in the thread, it seems pretty good for rumours and they have some neat stuff up there as well. I've been checking the modeling and painting forum at http://www.dakkadakka.com/ as well. They have lots of excellent painters and modellers over there. Definitely some amazing stuff over there, one guy is currently scratch building FOUR Warhound Titans, and these things look amazing since he is able to build his own resin molds and cast parts.

 

[tsukaesugi]

Here's a big 'everything warhammer' forum > http://warseer.com/forums/

I've been checking the modeling and painting forum at http://www.dakkadakka.com/ as well.

Cool. Thanks guys. Haven't seen either of those places yet. The only other forums I've visited are "The Bolter & Chainsword" which is Space Marines and only Marines, and a "Nurgle" only forum. Both are interesting, if not a little too specific.

Did you purchase the sand or did you just pick it up from outside?

It was gray sand I bought from a modelling store. I've glued it to bases with no problems, it's only when I mixed it with the paint that the mold grew. It was indeed gross - Nurgle would have been proud.