Final Fantasy 15 = no playable female characters? Lets discuss....

[Poonman]

Never thought I'd see my favorite Black Metal band reunite. Hope they play my city!

This fuckin guy....I like this guy....

Well! a consensus has been reached. Fuck this game.

 

[famicommander]

I've barely been keeping up with this game and can easily tell it has a "road trip" theme. Based on that, I think it's totally fine it's an all-male cast. I just wish they put more time into the character designs. Noctis looks cool. The rest don't. FF has had a ton of female characters, not all of them for pure ogling purposes. So I think it's silly and band-wagony to start calling them out at this stage. The cast fits the theme. Not much more to it than that.



I can kind of understand people not liking the main character of X but I think it's one of the best games of the 128 bit era and is my favorite Final Fantasy game. XII was actually really good and I'm surprised people don't like it. It was as close as a return to the SNES era (in terms of atmosphere) as you're going to get save for IX. XIII I think the characters turned a lot of people off and is probably my least favorite cast but I really liked Lightning, Vanille, and Fang. I thought it was a great game. You got to take down your planet's religious establishment. That's pretty awesome.

People love hating FF. I remember when I was in fourth or fifth grade or so and Power Rangers had been super popular growing up. And then everyone decided "Power Rangers was stupid and it was always stupid and I hate it wha wha." This kind of reminds me of that. People growing out of something but not being able to simply say, "OK, I'm done with this." Instead they have to say that everything is utter shit and isn't up to their sophisticated taste. SE could make a fantastic game and people would still say it sucks, it was pussified, it was homoerotic, it was dull, etc. Fuck that. I love Final Fantasy.

X and XIII are both linear games with garbage plots and no likeable characters whatsoever. At least X has a competent battle system, but there's no incentive because everything else in the game blows. The lack of sidequests and good minigames in both games is also pretty noticeable. It's painfully obvious with XIII that they spent almost all their development resources on the graphics engine, which is why the first game was so barebones and also why they had to squeeze two sequels nobody asked for out of it. What the hell kind of FF game is it when the whole game is basically corridor->boss fight->cutscene?

XII is commendable for its ambition but it honestly feels like an unfinished prototype rather than a completed game. Xenoblade Chronicles literally does everything XII does, except better, and then does tons more on top of that.

The fact that I kept buying them (and later SE games like BD) should tell you that I, in fact, wanted these games to be good. I didn't come into them looking for reasons not to like them, I played them and was thoroughly disappointed. I also liked quite a few spinoffs in the series to release since IX, including KH, the Dissidia games, Crisis Core, Tactics Advance, War of the Lions, etc. It isn't that FF can do no right, it's that the mainline games in the series have completely shunned everything that made the old games good.

Hironobu Sakaguchi leaving had a profound impact on the quality of the recent games in the series. Toriyama, Nomura, and Tabata have only occasionally struck gold without him. Meanwhile, he's produced three games at Mistwalker better than any FF since he left (The Last Story, Lost Odyssey, and Blue Dragon).

I understand how you feel bro, I like most 3D Sonic games (not Sonic '06). You just have to accept that other people don't appreciate the games for the same reason you do, and those people have every right to bitch when a series they've been following for 20+ years doesn't meet their standards (however arbitrary they may seem).

 

[SNKorSWM]

This game is starting to look like a yaoi fest.

 

[mainman]

I didn't know 15 was also a unlucky number.

The last installment of this franchise (FF13) was god awful, just terrible. I forced myself through 13 and 13-2 but just can't stomach finishing the trilogy.

FF7 despite what most of you might think made the franchise mainstream in the U.S and 13 just killed it. WTF were those developers thinking. With the release of each shitty direct sequel it was as if the developers turned American and decided to keep doing things wrong until somehow they turned out right.

It would have been ironic if FF13 would have sunk Square considering the history of the franchise that everyone is aware of.

You know Square American branch is right across the street from LAX, that's all I'm saying.

This game is starting to look like a yaoi fest.

 

[Lemony Vengeance]

Waiting for the Armenian feminist's take on the lack of female characters.

 

[Fuzzytaco]

Waiting for the Armenian feminist's take on the lack of female characters.

Her response will take a while, applying all that arm and mustache wax takes quite a bit of time.

 

[Marek]

I am not even going to think about playing this until I hear saners opinion on it.

Lol!

 

[NeuroticMoose]

Some of what was in the TGS video was decent. That Behemoth was pretty cool, and the battle system looks engaging and far more dynamic than in past games. That being said, the game is only 55% there, so it's hard to get even remotely excited for a game that's been in dev for nearly a whole console cycle. I find one of the things these games have been lacking in recent years is warmth, and this one looks a little sterile as well from what I've seen. Honestly, I'm hoping for interesting and clever banter between the characters at least.

The car does look pretty cool.

One of the things that has stood out to me in the trailers, mainly the one where they announced this would be 15 and not a spin off game, was the stupid little moments shown between characters, brief though they may have been, Noctis' dad sticking his tongue out at a young Noctis showing it had turned green in particular, because it's weird little interactions like that that made a lot of the older games special, and the cast already looks more interesting than the cast of 13 and it's sequels, granted a wet paper bag would be more interesting than them

Also the cast, or I guess party in this game seems to be comprised of characters who are actually friends, there's banter and so on, basically what I'm saying is after 13's reign of terror the series at least looks like it's going back in a better direction, plus it looks like it'll be a revenge story and I'm kind of a sucker for those

 

[NeuroticMoose]

This game is starting to look like a yaoi fest.

Well, most JRPGs star androgynous Japanese boy band members, so it's not exactly unexpected is it?

 

[Taiso]

I've barely been keeping up with this game and can easily tell it has a "road trip" theme. Based on that, I think it's totally fine it's an all-male cast. I just wish they put more time into the character designs. Noctis looks cool. The rest don't. FF has had a ton of female characters, not all of them for pure ogling purposes. So I think it's silly and band-wagony to start calling them out at this stage. The cast fits the theme. Not much more to it than that.



I can kind of understand people not liking the main character of X but I think it's one of the best games of the 128 bit era and is my favorite Final Fantasy game. XII was actually really good and I'm surprised people don't like it. It was as close as a return to the SNES era (in terms of atmosphere) as you're going to get save for IX. XIII I think the characters turned a lot of people off and is probably my least favorite cast but I really liked Lightning, Vanille, and Fang. I thought it was a great game. You got to take down your planet's religious establishment. That's pretty awesome.

People love hating FF. I remember when I was in fourth or fifth grade or so and Power Rangers had been super popular growing up. And then everyone decided "Power Rangers was stupid and it was always stupid and I hate it wha wha." This kind of reminds me of that. People growing out of something but not being able to simply say, "OK, I'm done with this." Instead they have to say that everything is utter shit and isn't up to their sophisticated taste. SE could make a fantastic game and people would still say it sucks, it was pussified, it was homoerotic, it was dull, etc. Fuck that. I love Final Fantasy.

Best in thread.

 

[Late]

Next level Blantheus, count me in! <3

 

[TheBigBB]

People love hating FF. I remember when I was in fourth or fifth grade or so and Power Rangers had been super popular growing up. And then everyone decided "Power Rangers was stupid and it was always stupid and I hate it wha wha." This kind of reminds me of that. People growing out of something but not being able to simply say, "OK, I'm done with this." Instead they have to say that everything is utter shit and isn't up to their sophisticated taste. SE could make a fantastic game and people would still say it sucks, it was pussified, it was homoerotic, it was dull, etc. Fuck that. I love Final Fantasy.

Are people saying that all Final Fantasy games are stupid, though? It seems to me that the negative perception of the series is focused on the more recent games, and stems from Square's insistence on drastically changing the formula. I think you'd see a similar negative response if King of Fighters suddenly introduced an all-new cast of mech pilots fighting in space. Regardless of whether the King of Fighters Mech Edition was the best game ever, plenty of people would still be upset that their beloved KOF series was tossed in the dumpster and permanently replaced with something that didn't even resemble the game they used to love. For the first 6 installments, Final Fantasies all had similar settings and variations on the same game systems. VII-X changed it up a little, but all had similarities to the originals and to each other, and it still felt somewhat coherent. XI, XII, XIII, XIII-2, XIII-3, and XIV all made drastic changes to the series. XI and XIV are MMOs, which plenty of people despise. XII let you just auto-pilot your characters. XIII was a series of loot hallways until the endgame. It's easy to understand why people are upset that they can't pick up a Final Fantasy game and get a modern version of a classic game. If you pick up a Final Fantasy game you have no clue what you're going to be in for. You have to look elsewhere if you want a modern take on Final Fantasy IV or something.

 

[Phyeir]

IPeople love hating FF. I remember when I was in fourth or fifth grade or so and Power Rangers had been super popular growing up. And then everyone decided "Power Rangers was stupid and it was always stupid and I hate it wha wha." This kind of reminds me of that. People growing out of something but not being able to simply say, "OK, I'm done with this." Instead they have to say that everything is utter shit and isn't up to their sophisticated taste. SE could make a fantastic game and people would still say it sucks, it was pussified, it was homoerotic, it was dull, etc. Fuck that. I love Final Fantasy.

That's not a valid comparison.

The difference here is more like Coke Classic vs. New Coke. A product with the name you enjoyed has seen the formula changed in a way that it's no longer palletable. If the new formula is still enjoyable to you, that's cool, but you can't blame the former part of the series consumer being a bit irked at the shift, either.

Least those of us that like the older FF games have the Bravely Default series.

 

[Poonman]

Bump.

Investment opportunities: will there be any in this game?

Sure, its cool to cruise around with your homies and levelling up while you're still young...but you gotta plan for the future! Before you know it, those wispy tresses of faggy hair will start falling out and you'll be in midlife crisis(core) mode, cruising around in an airship looking for pleasing waifu and getting none.

What are your LONG TERM objectives once you get your revenge and bring the energy crystal back to your kingdom?

FUCK....
You gotta build up that nest egg, boys.... and live the FF dream; settle down with a waifu and raise a couple chibi lolis together. Maybe a paid-off Yellow Chocobo in the driveway for daily commuting....or maybe a BLACK chocobo for those of us who can better manage our Gil.


And what about emergencies? What happens if one of your kids comes down with a status ailment? Like Petrify? Or IMP?! OR GAY?!?!?!

What's the plan after the waifu catches you draining your balls in a magical nekomata that is living in your attic and throws you out of the house?

Where will you replenish your HP after that? At a fucking INN?! Prices keep going up and there's no end in sight.



Gentlemen...
It's time we stop being manbaby fuckfags and start figuring shit out while we still can.

 

[RabbitTroop]

I hear where you're coming from, but I drastically think you're over-stating it. All we really need to know is if we can admit to playing this game openly, or if we need to closet this shit. Put it into context, how far does this game make it seem you have a dick up your ass? And... Is that like all out and out homo, or just like a "Whoopsie, I fell into your dick, but I totally didn't like it," homo-lite sort of dick in the ass thing.

 

[Poonman]

I hear where you're coming from, but I drastically think you're over-stating it. All we really need to know is if we can admit to playing this game openly, or if we need to closet this shit. Put it into context, how far does this game make it seem you have a dick up your ass? And... Is that like all out and out homo, or just like a "Whoopsie, I fell into your dick, but I totally didn't like it," homo-lite sort of dick in the ass thing.

Let me put it to you this way:

Last week a buddy told me he got high on MDMA and made out with a male friend (in a misguided attempt to lead his GF into a 3 way with them).

If I followed that story with gushing testimony about spending 200 hours in a Japanese cosplay sim I honestly think I would have taken the heat off of him and all the drinking buddies would be looking at me funny for the rest of the night.


So definitely the first one....totally in the closet, full on gay, dad will disown me if he knew.






EDIT: Bro, are u mad at me? I'm not taking the piss or disparaging you in any way what so ever.....I'm just bored and trying to get a laugh out of myself.

 

[Marek]

This thread is a textbook example of why I only trust ng.com review/preview/doom threads.

And its lolz x2 considering spoon has had that as his Sig for a half year easily.

 

[fake]

That's not a valid comparison.

The difference here is more like Coke Classic vs. New Coke. A product with the name you enjoyed has seen the formula changed in a way that it's no longer palletable. If the new formula is still enjoyable to you, that's cool, but you can't blame the former part of the series consumer being a bit irked at the shift, either.

Least those of us that like the older FF games have the Bravely Default series.

OK, but here's another comparison. Bands change and evolve. Members leave and get replaced, the band takes a new direction, etc. Sometimes those new directions are more straightforward than previous ones. The teams making the FF games aren't made of the same people. And there's been a shift towards more in-depth story-telling, and more world-building, which lends itself to more of a roller-coaster ride than an open-world game. Now that devs can take you on a tour of a world that makes you think "wow, that looks amazing" [from a design standpoint, not a technical one] of course they're going to do that. Now that they can have voice-overs, of course they're going to use that to tell a deeper story. And those open worlds - yes I prefer them - but they're still basically an illusion of freedom. I'll admit that there was a lot to do in the open worlds of VII and some others, but you're still on a narrative path. You're just adding a bit to it. You have a little extra leeway.

I think people are romanticizing "classic" FF combat. VI was nearly as "press X to win" as most. The main draw there was that some of the characters had special commands instead of just "fight". It's arguable for most FF games that you can "just keep grinding until you can beat the boss." But in XIII, I think they put more effort into forcing you to strategize than most other FFs. I experimented a bit, and if you didn't create a strategy based on the weaknesses of the enemies, you were screwed.

And even if they did stick to the same formula and didn't change to a more linear direction, I'm sure people would be saying "Those FF games are all the same."

 

[RabbitTroop]

EDIT: Bro, are u mad at me? I'm not taking the piss or disparaging you in any way what so ever.....I'm just bored and trying to get a laugh out of myself.

OMG, bro, I thought you were all mad at me I'd totally ride shotgun with you in FF15. Some-homo.

Just saying.

I was actually just, like just 15 minutes ago, mentioning to a friend here that I think I made someone on the Internet mad with some throw away joke today about FF15 making you gay, and not knowing if I had enough gay-resistance left to play it... I'm so homo

 

[TheBigBB]

OK, but here's another comparison. Bands change and evolve. Members leave and get replaced, the band takes a new direction, etc. Sometimes those new directions are more straightforward than previous ones. The teams making the FF games aren't made of the same people. And there's been a shift towards more in-depth story-telling, and more world-building, which lends itself to more of a roller-coaster ride than an open-world game. Now that devs can take you on a tour of a world that makes you think "wow, that looks amazing" [from a design standpoint, not a technical one] of course they're going to do that. Now that they can have voice-overs, of course they're going to use that to tell a deeper story. And those open worlds - yes I prefer them - but they're still basically an illusion of freedom. I'll admit that there was a lot to do in the open worlds of VII and some others, but you're still on a narrative path. You're just adding a bit to it. You have a little extra leeway.

I think people are romanticizing "classic" FF combat. VI was nearly as "press X to win" as most. The main draw there was that some of the characters had special commands instead of just "fight". It's arguable for most FF games that you can "just keep grinding until you can beat the boss." But in XIII, I think they put more effort into forcing you to strategize than most other FFs. I experimented a bit, and if you didn't create a strategy based on the weaknesses of the enemies, you were screwed.

And even if they did stick to the same formula and didn't change to a more linear direction, I'm sure people would be saying "Those FF games are all the same."

But now you're getting off of your original point. You had said that people were just bitching because Final Fantasy has become cool to hate on. The point me and Phyeir made was that the games had changed so much that it was understandable that fans would be upset. Can we agree that the games have changed fairly drastically over the past 10 installments?

Also, I do agree that the old FF games are not all they're cracked up to be. Whatever it was that caused FFVI to be "press X to win", I would like to see an evolution of that while still maintaining the same general feel of the games. I can't do that with the Final Fantasy franchise anymore. I have to play games made by other companies to get that sort of experience of seeing what a game like FFVI would be like if it had a better battle system. FFXIII doesn't cut it because of how linear it is. While in FFVI you could finish the game with three full parties of characters or just three characters total, depending on how extensively you decided to explore, FFXIII doesn't even let the player deviate from a set path for almost the entirety of the game. And I'd argue that FFXIII's non-linear content is pretty bad, too. You have one area to run around in, and not much storyline to go along with it. For as limited as the battle engines could be in the old FF games, they always let you wander around to some extent.

 

[fake]

I'd say it's reasonable for classic FF fans to not be pleased with the newer games. And you and Phyeir are making valid points. But I think that's the exception, not the rule. Most people are just jumping on the FF Hate Bandwagon.

Personally, when it comes to certain things that change, I can be the type to say, "Hey, this isn't what I signed up for. Why'd they have to go and change it?" But for main-line Final Fantasy games (not including cash-ins like X-2 and XIII-2), I'm able to still find a lot of enjoyment in them despite the changes. It comes down to this, in my opinion: Do the changes in this new game (as well as the standard stuff to judge) make up for the good things that have been removed or changed? For me, The answer has been "yes" for most main-line FF games.

Maybe I'm just looking at this from a very different perspective. I didn't have a SNES until 10 years ago. I didn't "grow up" with FF in the same way I grew up with Mario and Sonic. I got FFVII in '99 but I was still a little too young to "get it". It took me a few years to really get into it. I don't look back at FFVI with nostalgia because I didn't play it when I was young. I played it as an adult. And I thought it was great, I think it's one of the better FFs. But while FF is one of my favorite series, it's not something that I'm super protective of. I'm not going to stop playing because the new games are different. I'm not happy that XV has a real-time battle system. But I'm not going to throw up my arms and be like, "Fuck it! I'm out!"

 

[Phyeir]

I'd say it's reasonable for classic FF fans to not be pleased with the newer games. And you and Phyeir are making valid points. But I think that's the exception, not the rule. Most people are just jumping on the FF Hate Bandwagon.

Eh, it's the internet, it allows people to express themselves overly free because they are (mostly) safe behind the computer screen. Most of the older FF I've spoken to are in the same camp I am... the series long left us behind from a company production standpoint, but c'est la vie. Sometimes I'll get in the quip when I'm feeling a bit sassier.

What's promising is even SqEn admitted a year ago that abandoning the traditional model of JRPGs was a poor business decision and they would refocus their efforts. Bravely Default was a real return to form on the genre... for those of us that are fans.

Which is really the point in all of these mediums (music, tv/streaming, gaming), there's no need to bash one genre or another purely for existing, from a gameplay/content standpoint. Certain genres will always have a place, others will fade, new ones will come in. They all exist to meet the taste of the artists & audience that will play it. The only ones that should be bashed are those clearly made to fleece the consumer for the profit of the gaming companies. But that's another thread entirely.

 

[Mac91]

It's hard to believe that the people working on the game go into meetings all like "Oh man, Noctis Lucis Caelum is a sickkk name!" , "These characters look rad as fuck!" and "We're so clever putting all this latin shit about light and darkness and sky!".

 

[Taiso]

It's hard to believe that the people working on the game go into meetings all like "Oh man, Noctis Lucis Caelum is a sickkk name!" , "These characters look rad as fuck!" and "We're so clever putting all this latin shit about light and darkness and sky!".

It's hard to believe because no one thinks they're on that particular emotional wavelength.

They're probably more like:

'Noctis Lucis Caelum sounds like an arrogant and androgynous J-pop star's name, and we want kids to buy this game. Let's also design the characters to look like a male idol band, because kids like that sort of thng too. Try to make them look sort of like movie stars at the same time. In fact, let's make up a boy band that could be any boy band and then pretend that we cast them in a Final Fantasy movie. It's got to have cars and planes and other things that the technology aware youth of today are into and can relate to, and then we'll have monsters waking up and crystals and things.'

S-E said they're changing their market expectations. They said rather than develop for international audiences, they're gong to produce what they feel is a game that they know their fans worldwide will buy and set their sales expectations based on the global number.

They're making very Japanese games because they were very happy with Bravely Default's international sales and they have adjusted their business model to reflect that.

Whether any of that's true or not, this game's release is further proof that they feel they produce a certain type of product that a certain type of gamer likes and they're just going to reach their core fans.

I'm with fakexsound on this one.

Also, XI and XIV are more pure expressions of FF than any in the series since VI. I've played them enough to know that's just the truth. Even being MMOs, they possess EVERY core value of the series that made it so popular during the 8 and 16 bit generations. I understand why others might be turned off by a pay subscription model MMO, but they are good 'Final Fantasy' games.

 

[Mac91]

It's hard to believe because no one thinks they're on that particular emotional wavelength.

They're probably more like:

'Noctis Lucis Caelum sounds like an arrogant and androgynous J-pop star's name, and we want kids to buy this game. Let's also design the characters to look like a male idol band, because kids like that sort of thng too. Try to make them look sort of like movie stars at the same time. In fact, let's make up a boy band that could be any boy band and then pretend that we cast them in a Final Fantasy movie. It's got to have cars and planes and other things that the technology aware youth of today are into and can relate to, and then we'll have monsters waking up and crystals and things.'

S-E said they're changing their market expectations. They said rather than develop for international audiences, they're gong to produce what they feel is a game that they know their fans worldwide will buy and set their sales expectations based on the global number.

They're making very Japanese games because they were very happy with Bravely Default's international sales and they have adjusted their business model to reflect that.

Whether any of that's true or not, this game's release is further proof that they feel they produce a certain type of product that a certain type of gamer likes and they're just going to reach their core fans.

I'm with fakexsound on this one.

Also, XI and XIV are more pure expressions of FF than any in the series since VI. I've played them enough to know that's just the truth. Even being MMOs, they possess EVERY core value of the series that made it so popular during the 8 and 16 bit generations. I understand why others might be turned off by a pay subscription model MMO, but they are good 'Final Fantasy' games.

I don't argue with that, it all makes sense. The fact that they are making a game they feel is going to relate to the youth/audience is indicative of the industry and, to a certain extent, neo-liberal economics (bear with me on this).

They sound like they are making a game they think will appeal to a specific audience, knowing that this will make them moolah. They don't sound like they are making the game how they like it. They sound like they are focusing on what they think will sell, rather than games that they enjoy making.

Actually, scratch all that I just thought of opposing points and shit. Meh this srs game talk is hard stuff.