Missouri gun murders 'rose after law repeal'

norton9478

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One reason I'm a big skeptic of arms control is because a lot of gun control legislation banning firearms and the carrying of arms in public in the late 19th and early 20th century were enacted specifically to disarm blacks and other minorities. The banning of firearms is a means of control whose end is often simply control. Not safety. Well, maybe safety for the status quo white power structure. In California's early history the legislature sought to disarm freed blacks, Chinese, Japanese, and Mexicans. In the 1960s the legislature banned the open carrying of loaded firearms as mean to punish and weaken dissident groups such as the Blank Panthers.

EDIT: As well as to disarm politically unsavory groups such as communists, marxists, bolsheviks, anarchists, etc.



I have no great love of a standing army. But any student of history can tell you that a professional army will 9.9 times out 10 beat a citizen-militia defense force.

But the last 2 successful federal gun control pushes were nothing of the sort.
In the 30's, it was a response to Organized crime.
In the late 60's, it was a response to shootings of major political figures (with an echo in the late 80's/early 90's)
 

Lagduf

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But the last 2 successful federal gun control pushes were nothing of the sort.
In the 30's, it was a response to Organized crime.
In the late 60's, it was a response to shootings of major political figures (with an echo in the late 80's/early 90's)

Certainly, and the reasons you state are why those laws were successful, because they addressed legitimate concerns - they weren't attempts to necessarily disarm and disenfranchise a perceived threat to the status quo. Besides no one at this time is suggesting we get a wholesale repeal of the NFA '34 or GCA '68.

Of course there are provisions I'd like changed in both: the deregulation of sound suppressors (just treat them as standard firearms) and end to import restrictions on foreign firearms as well as a removal of all language regarding firearms needing a "sporting purpose." The idea that weapons must serve a sporting purpose is old hat, and inconsistent with the Heller decision. I also question why I can go down to my local gun store and buy a pistol with a 5" barrel that I can conceal on my body but can't own a rifle with a 12" barrel without first getting permission from my local Sheriff, paying $200 to the ATF, and submitting paperwork that takes 6-9 months to get approved.

Anyway, as you know the worst gun control in the US hasn't come from the Federal Government. The Federal Government hasn't been too bad on the issue. The problem is the states: California, much of the South [in their campaign to disarm newly freedmen and marginalize them from society in general] and the East coast have been outright hostile to private arms ownership.

PS: Never trust a gun owner who is also a Reagan supporter.
 

SNKorSWM

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The Boston Marathon bombing shows that even without guns, people intend to do harm to others would still find a way to do so.
 

Karou

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fiction and all but its not like similar incidents don't occur, hey at least no one was shot so everythings fine right?


if I'm wrong about no one being shot in the movie, sorry haven't watched it since highschool.
 

smokehouse

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fiction and all but its not like similar incidents don't occur, hey at least no one was shot so everythings fine right?


if I'm wrong about no one being shot in the movie, sorry haven't watched it since highschool.

In our areas...daytime robberies, stop-n-grab parking lot robberies and home occupation style robbers are on the rise. The really odd part is that we've had 2 home occupation style robbers lately where the robbers force themselves in, subdue the occupants, then take their time robbing the joint of everything of value.

Criminals are evolving...the old school "break in during the middle of the night" robbery is changing. More and more, they're doing it during the day, coming to your home, knocking on the door then assaulting you and forcing their way in when you answer. The really scary one is the parking lot deal where they will literally drive up to someone, hop out of the car, stick a weapon in your face, grab what they can and take off.
 

StevenK

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In our areas...daytime robberies, stop-n-grab parking lot robberies and home occupation style robbers are on the rise. The really odd part is that we've had 2 home occupation style robbers lately where the robbers force themselves in, subdue the occupants, then take their time robbing the joint of everything of value.

Criminals are evolving...the old school "break in during the middle of the night" robbery is changing. More and more, they're doing it during the day, coming to your home, knocking on the door then assaulting you and forcing their way in when you answer. The really scary one is the parking lot deal where they will literally drive up to someone, hop out of the car, stick a weapon in your face, grab what they can and take off.

I think the change in crime patterns is in part due to the desperation factor - meth is a bitch of a drug - plus the change in home and vehicle security. Gone are the days when people could steal a car with a metal rod and 60 seconds of shoving it down a door sill, to take a car now people need to have the keys as immobilizers actually work pretty well - and the best way to get the keys is to either take them off your person or to take them from your home. It's a much more personal, so more scary, crime.

Having said that I think it's still incredibly rare - far more rare than the media would have you think. I would think a slight increase in vigilance is about all the average citizen would need to do to set things straight.
 

FAT$TACKS

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Back when I lived across the street from a low income housing apartment, crime was a constant issue. I can think of at least two times that someone had their door kicked in and was home invaded. Usually it was several times a week the police would be on our street doing something. Over all crime is not that bad here but it just grows out of some places, such as the low income housing. While there were some good people in there, there were some bad ones as well who made everything worse for everyone around them.

I always would keep a loaded firearm within reach there, just in case I would hear the door getting kicked in. I also would answer the door armed if I didn't know who I was seeing out there or if I couldn't see someone. When leeches and parasites would come to the door wanting something, I made sure they would see that I had a pistol in my other hand before they were gone.

This would happen a few times with each new worthless person who moved in to the street. They would literally go from door to door asking for shit. Do you have any smokes, can I come in and use the phone, do you have a lighter, can I borrow 20 dollars, can you drive me to the store, can you do this or that or some other shit. I would watch them go from house to house pulling this shit.

They want to get in your house, see what you have and how they can rob you. These fuckers did nothing all day but sit outside and wait for someone to leave a car door unlocked while they sat there trying to figure out what they could steal. They pulled my garden plants up and stole them one night. My car got broken into 2 times, once on Christmas morning. If you have anything outside it will be stolen. You couldn't own anything there because some worthless fucker would be mad that you have something and then try to damage it. My car had been hit and run a few times. We've our cars totaled while they were parked because some drunk fucker would zoom out of the parking from the apartments and plow into our cars. Had a fence ran through, one of the neighbors had their porch smashed through with a car.

I grew up in that neighborhood. It was pretty decent until they built the low income housing. Worthless fucks started moving in and then we had crime. Good people moved out of neighborhood, the houses got bought and turned into rental property, for more low income because no else would live there. The whole area is almost all rental property. A few people still live there. My neighbor next door had his vehicle and garage set fire too by one of the local kids.

There were very few of the crimes that I know of in the area that involved firearms. The home invasions that I know about, the attackers did not have any guns. The old people they attacked did not either.

I got to know one of the local police officers who was constantly on our street. I knew her boyfriend at the time and we would all go out and do things. I bought a new large firearm one day and had her drive me home. So the criminals across the street see the cop they know pull up and then I get out of the car packing a large firearm and head off into my house. I don't think anyone from across the street ever even spoke to me again after that.

I quite believe that being armed and making sure the locals knew I was armed became a large part of why I mostly got left alone while living there.

Most crooks are just cowards and they want things to be easy. Because they are also lazy, just by making things less than easy you can save yourself a lot of headache. Now sure you get the crazy desperate drug people, but really they are hard to account for. There is just no telling what they will do when they become desperate enough but still by making things difficult for them you stand a better chance of them finding a different victim.

I believe that citizens should be taught firearm safety and at very least basic working knowledge about firearms. I really think it should be something taught in high schools as an elective for those who would like to learn. You can safely have classes with training arms that are not capable of firing and fake ammunition. You could teach handling safety, use, and all sorts of things. The classes could even go to a local gun range and get to do some supervised live fire exercises. Instill some respect for firearms in young people so its not all call of duty, and action movie they learn from.

Back when I was in school we still had those back glass gun racks in trucks. Lots of the high school students were hunters. They would have been out hunting before school and you would see rifles in trucks in the school parking. In the county high school, you were expected to take your rifle in and leave it with the office until after school, mind you they had to be unloaded. They would put a little tag on it with your name and keep it the principals office. Times have changed quiet a bit though and not at all for the better.
 

StevenK

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Back when I lived across the street from a low income housing apartment, crime was a constant issue. I can think of at least two times that someone had their door kicked in and was home invaded. Usually it was several times a week the police would be on our street doing something. Over all crime is not that bad here but it just grows out of some places, such as the low income housing. While there were some good people in there, there were some bad ones as well who made everything worse for everyone around them.

I always would keep a loaded firearm within reach there, just in case I would hear the door getting kicked in. I also would answer the door armed if I didn't know who I was seeing out there or if I couldn't see someone. When leeches and parasites would come to the door wanting something, I made sure they would see that I had a pistol in my other hand before they were gone.

This would happen a few times with each new worthless person who moved in to the street. They would literally go from door to door asking for shit. Do you have any smokes, can I come in and use the phone, do you have a lighter, can I borrow 20 dollars, can you drive me to the store, can you do this or that or some other shit. I would watch them go from house to house pulling this shit.

They want to get in your house, see what you have and how they can rob you. These fuckers did nothing all day but sit outside and wait for someone to leave a car door unlocked while they sat there trying to figure out what they could steal. They pulled my garden plants up and stole them one night. My car got broken into 2 times, once on Christmas morning. If you have anything outside it will be stolen. You couldn't own anything there because some worthless fucker would be mad that you have something and then try to damage it. My car had been hit and run a few times. We've our cars totaled while they were parked because some drunk fucker would zoom out of the parking from the apartments and plow into our cars. Had a fence ran through, one of the neighbors had their porch smashed through with a car.

I grew up in that neighborhood. It was pretty decent until they built the low income housing. Worthless fucks started moving in and then we had crime. Good people moved out of neighborhood, the houses got bought and turned into rental property, for more low income because no else would live there. The whole area is almost all rental property. A few people still live there. My neighbor next door had his vehicle and garage set fire too by one of the local kids.

There were very few of the crimes that I know of in the area that involved firearms. The home invasions that I know about, the attackers did not have any guns. The old people they attacked did not either.

I got to know one of the local police officers who was constantly on our street. I knew her boyfriend at the time and we would all go out and do things. I bought a new large firearm one day and had her drive me home. So the criminals across the street see the cop they know pull up and then I get out of the car packing a large firearm and head off into my house. I don't think anyone from across the street ever even spoke to me again after that.

I quite believe that being armed and making sure the locals knew I was armed became a large part of why I mostly got left alone while living there.

Most crooks are just cowards and they want things to be easy. Because they are also lazy, just by making things less than easy you can save yourself a lot of headache. Now sure you get the crazy desperate drug people, but really they are hard to account for. There is just no telling what they will do when they become desperate enough but still by making things difficult for them you stand a better chance of them finding a different victim.

I believe that citizens should be taught firearm safety and at very least basic working knowledge about firearms. I really think it should be something taught in high schools as an elective for those who would like to learn. You can safely have classes with training arms that are not capable of firing and fake ammunition. You could teach handling safety, use, and all sorts of things. The classes could even go to a local gun range and get to do some supervised live fire exercises. Instill some respect for firearms in young people so its not all call of duty, and action movie they learn from.

Back when I was in school we still had those back glass gun racks in trucks. Lots of the high school students were hunters. They would have been out hunting before school and you would see rifles in trucks in the school parking. In the county high school, you were expected to take your rifle in and leave it with the office until after school, mind you they had to be unloaded. They would put a little tag on it with your name and keep it the principals office. Times have changed quiet a bit though and not at all for the better.

I'm sure that seemed pretty bad at the time, it doesn't sound like a great situation but it also doesn't sound any different to any council estate anywhere in Britain. There is plenty of low level crime, things go missing, but it's really not that big a deal.

I live on a council estate right now, have done for the past 5 years, it's not because I have to, I earn good money, I could easily afford somewhere nice like I used to live but I didn't even know my neighbours there. Here there's much more community spirit around, people know people, some people are good, some people are shit, I like it that way, keeps things interesting.

Point I'm trying to make is nothing you have said here is particularly bad at all, it's just everyday life for half the population even in a developed country, and you've got to see that answering your door with a loaded gun in your hand because someone once stole your geraniums isn't an even handed response. It's kind of nuts man.


Edit - I'm not sure how this comes across, but it wasn't supposed to be an attack on either you or guns, I like the shit you write, I'm not particularly anti gun either. What I was trying to say is it sounds like you let paranoia get the upper hand in this situation.
 
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Karou

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umm no, to me it seems he politely let them know to fuck off.
why should he give them the chance to rob or possibly assault him when they have already shown intent to do so toward him? how is it so wrong not to be willing to bend over and instead be straight up, like no sugar here sorry.

don't be jealous of him because we're all set to end up like you now anyhow as our gun confiscation has begun with Connecticut. http://www.guns.com/2014/02/26/ct-missed-gun-registration-deadline-getting-letters-state-police/ its their fault that they may have been informed of their new law too late or something yet still made the effort to comply and all the people they could possibly ever have to defend themselves from have been taken care of Guaranteed so this is perfectly Legal right? just like how I get to pay a fine because people didn't pay their bills other law abiding people should be punished based on the actions of a teenager, right?
 
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StevenK

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umm no, to me it seems he politely let them know to fuck off.
why should he give them the chance to rob or possibly assault him when they have already shown intent to do so toward him? how is it so wrong not to be willing to bend over and instead be straight up, like no sugar here sorry.

don't be jealous of him because we're all set to end up like you now anyhow as our gun confiscation has begun with Connecticut. http://www.guns.com/2014/02/26/ct-missed-gun-registration-deadline-getting-letters-state-police/ its their fault that they may have been informed of their new law too late or something yet still made the effort to comply and all the people they could possibly ever have to defend themselves from have been taken care of Guaranteed so this is perfectly Legal right? just like how I get to pay a fine because people didn't pay their bills other law abiding people should be punished based on the actions of a teenager, right?

I'm going to go out on a limb with this and guess that no one here wants you to speak for them, even if it ever made any sense.
 

Karou

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I'm going to go out on a limb with this and guess that no one here wants you to speak for them, even if it ever made any sense.

ok.
I would greatly appreciate if everyone I was supposedly speaking for (Fat$tacks especially) could please let me know exactly how wrong I am in my statements this quote refers to.

edit:Fat$tacks especially because in the first part of it I said something about what I thought about his actions in his post before the one he was called paranoid and over the top in.
 
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evil wasabi

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I don't even know what you were trying to say.

Maybe I couldn't smell the meaning of your finger words because not I am LSD on. God bless America. 666.
 

hyper

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this just in:

basketball players got gats

with bullets in them

pointy ones
 

FAT$TACKS

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I'm sure that seemed pretty bad at the time, it doesn't sound like a great situation but it also doesn't sound any different to any council estate anywhere in Britain. There is plenty of low level crime, things go missing, but it's really not that big a deal.

I live on a council estate right now, have done for the past 5 years, it's not because I have to, I earn good money, I could easily afford somewhere nice like I used to live but I didn't even know my neighbours there. Here there's much more community spirit around, people know people, some people are good, some people are shit, I like it that way, keeps things interesting.

Point I'm trying to make is nothing you have said here is particularly bad at all, it's just everyday life for half the population even in a developed country, and you've got to see that answering your door with a loaded gun in your hand because someone once stole your geraniums isn't an even handed response. It's kind of nuts man.


Edit - I'm not sure how this comes across, but it wasn't supposed to be an attack on either you or guns, I like the shit you write, I'm not particularly anti gun either. What I was trying to say is it sounds like you let paranoia get the upper hand in this situation.

I can see how it would come off as kind of crazy. If this stuff happens lots of places then that in no way makes it something that should be accepted or tolerated by the populace.

Aside from that, I got that home from my family. My parents used to live in there. I've family that has owned 2 homes on that street.

One fellow (who was later caught for and was a previous rapist it turned out.) forced his way into my parents home when my mother came to the door. I suppose it would be crazy for her to answer the door armed after that as well.

When there is a history of people coming to your door in the area and then trying to force their way in as I noted it happened 2 times across the street. There is kind of a history of that sort of thing going on.

See.. if those kinds of things are every day life then something is wrong. Where I live now it's not every day life.


I had taken action to let people know I won't stand for that shit and for the most part I've been left alone.

Out of all the years I've lived in that area, I can think of at least 3 people who have been killed, now this is over quite a long time. Stealing my plants is not a big deal, but worse shit happens.

Steal my plants, big deal. I'll let that one go. Invade my home, and I will use lethal force, as much as I have. If someone knows that, I think maybe they will be a bit less inclined to try such a thing.
 
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FAT$TACKS

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I should have added a few little things to that.

Also, on a less pro gun note I know 2 people who were in my area who killed themselves with a fire arm. One was an older man a few houses down who chose suicide after his wife passed away. The other fellow I don't know all the details about but I used to play with his grandchildren. I was told it was suicide, but there was some question about it is my understanding.

On the guy that attacked my mother. He lived across the street with a girlfriend I believe. He was drunk when he tried to force his way in. We don't know why he did it. He finally gave up getting in and getting a bit of a fight and then took his drunk ass right back over to the apartment. When the police came they told my family about his record and history.

About 3 blocks away a boy was kidnapped. I don't know all the details on that one either but I knew the kid from seeing him in the neighborhood. Thankfully he got away and was unharmed. There were some people who seen what happened but no one was able to identify the man who did it. I don't know if he ever got caught.

Out of the people I know who were killed, one was a woman who was murdered and raped a few blocks away where it becomes an industrial area. She was out jogging is my understanding. One was a domestic dispute, the other I'm not sure I remember right enough to comment on accurately. I do know of another stabbing down the street about a mile but we won't count that.


The bottom line is that bad shit happens. Not all the time, not everywhere, but It can happen any time and anywhere. I believe a good honest person should use their right to take all reasonable precautions to keep themselves and their family safe. I've only ever pointed a firearm at another person once. That was after the person flat out told me they were going to kill me. He also did not know I was armed, if he had maybe he would not been so bold. I don't know how that would have ended if I were not armed but I do know how it ended because I was.
 

Karou

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I don't even know what you were trying to say.

[ I was saying that I disagreed that Fat$tacks actions were nuts. sugar should have been in quotes I guess. I used it as a euphemism(I'm pretty sure thats the right word?) for hey do you mind if I rob,assault,rape your wife maybe you too, and possibly even kill you. hey man can I borrow some 'sugar'? sorry no 'sugar' here]

Maybe I couldn't smell the meaning of your finger words because not I am LSD on.[ok?]
God bless America. [yes people being stripped of their rights just because:down: is lame I agree]

666.
[
Adam_lanza_sandy_hook_shooter.jpg
]
my responses appear within the quote in brackets in an effort to be more clear on what I'm talking about and understood.
 

Phyeir

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What is the state's interest in preventing suicides?

Continued cash flow from taxes for someone living. (And nowadays, extra money for the medical industry or the prison industry, if they are jailed)

The gov't will get their money when they die irregardless. May as well keep them living and eke out a few years of extra income.
 

SNKorSWM

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If one guy has a job and commits suicide, another will take over his job. The state gets the tax money no matter who is at that job position.
 
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