NEW Neo Geo Ports To Sega Genesis

[Takumaji]

Most of us here already knew about this port, right? It seems like there have been posts about it for at least a year.

I got crucified on Twitter for saying modern tools, memory and dedicated fans make a port like this more possible than it was back in the day. I thought I was making a statement of fact, but everyone made sure to correct me and say it was totally reasonable to expect this port back in the day. The companies were just too stupid to make this in the 90's.

That's not entirely true, you were quite right with your initial thought. 68k dev environments on modern standard PCs alone are -lightyears- ahead of what they had back in the day. Of course that doesn't get you a good game just like that, you still need clever coders who know what they're doing and lots of tedious 68k assembly programming. Still, the convenience aspect cannot be rated highly enough, you simply are more productive in a stable and feature-rich current dev system than with the stuff you had to work with when the Neo/MD were new.

 

[Neo Alec]

I was only posting the obvious to counterbalance the sea of comments saying it turns out the Genesis and Neo Geo are equally powerful hardware.

 

[city41]

and lots of tedious 68k assembly programming

you don't even need that. gcc is daaaamn good now. SGDK and neodevkit both use it. The Real Bout port was made with it.

I'd even argue there's hardly any developers alive today who can write better assembly than a compiler can.

 

[Neo Alec]

This port proves that Neo Geo was just a bunch of hype. There was no need to buy "$650 hardware."

I would dig up the thread on Twitter, but I assume everyone involved has since deleted their posts out of embarrassment.

 

[city41]

I got crucified on Twitter for saying modern tools, memory and dedicated fans make a port like this more possible than it was back in the day.

I totally agree. Twitter being wrong is nothing new. The tooling available today is just light years ahead of what was around in the 90s. My neo geo dev environment -- which could be even better with a bit more effort -- would probably have made snk developers in the 90s drop their jaws.

 

[Takumaji]

you don't even need that. gcc is daaaamn good now. SGDK and neodevkit both use it. The Real Bout port was made with it.

I'd even argue there's hardly any developers alive today who can write better assembly than a compiler can.

Yeah, well, there's a slight bit of fat on the code which of course can be optimised so it's probably the way to go today if you don't wanna go down to the iron.

I'm sure things would have looked different if dev'ers of the early 90s would have had access to today's dev environs, maybe not so much in terms of quality but efficiency.

For example, there are quite a few MD ports that were cut down in order to meet the deadline, like the infamous Sunset Riders port which plays very well but lots of elements of the arcade original were missing. That was because the dev'ers were given only 3 months to do it, and I think they might have been more successful if they would have had a more flexible dev environment running on a powerful PC like we have today.

Still, given enough time, a RBS port would have been possible back in the day in my opinion. The very existence of excellent MD ports of complex fighters like Fatal Fury 2 and specially SSF2 is proof enough that the old dev'ers were capable of porting these games in a way they actually made sense to play, unlike, say, ports of SF2 or Mortal Kombat on SMS which were more like proof-of-concept than anything else.

 

[Neo Alec]

Sunset Riders was only 4 megs on Genesis/MD versus 8 megs on the SNES. Konami often only budgeted for small carts on the system. The same happened for Tiny Toon Adventures.

Beyond the memory issues though, yeah a lot of it just came down to developer talent and how much effort the company was willing to invest I imagine.

 

[city41]

I'm sure things would have looked different if dev'ers of the early 90s would have had access to today's dev environs, maybe not so much in terms of quality but efficiency.

I agree with that. Most of these developers were very good.

Still, given enough time, a RBS port would have been possible back in the day in my opinion.

It's hard to say. But I think if nothing else the economics would have held this idea back. the Real Bout Genesis port is 40 megabits. That would have made it pretty pricey in the 90s.

 

[Takumaji]

I agree with that. Most of these developers were very good.

It's hard to say. But I think if nothing else the economics would have held this idea back. the Real Bout Genesis port is 40 megabits. That would have made it pretty pricey in the 90s.

SSF2 also was 40Mbits so there was precedent for that size. It was a bit more expensive than smaller carts, but not much.

Still, I agree, a RBS port probably would not have been financially viable for SNK at that point in time. They had plenty of work to do with their own shit anyway.

 

[Viewpoint]

Curious, what is the history? I totally missed it.

I'm not a fan of him either. Pretty much anyone from Metal Jesus's group is pretty cringe...

There are a few things but the one that I remember is him trying to have people buy T-shirts of him and his kids on it. It was some really cringe shit.

 

[NeoSeeD]

I got crucified on Twitter for saying modern tools, memory and dedicated fans make a port like this more possible than it was back in the day. I thought I was making a statement of fact, but everyone made sure to correct me and say it was totally reasonable to expect this port back in the day. The companies were just too stupid to make this in the 90's.

I'm not sure what reality the people "correcting" you live in. Even if a port of Real Bout were possible back in the day, the cart would have cost as much as the native Neo version and would have still been inferior. These fan ports are impressive because devs have access to much more ROM space, modern tools, and importantly, time as there are no bosses breathing down their neck and rushing them for the sake of profit. Dev talent and love of the property is just as important considering limitations like the Genesis/Mega Drive color palette compared to other consoles.

Personally, I love seeing these modern devs porting titles across platforms and breaking past boundaries to show us what these classic consoles could have theoretically given us back in the day. I'd like to see the favor returned though with Neo enhanced ports of Castlevania Bloodlines, Contra Hard Corps, Revenge of Shinobi/Shadow Dancer, Streets of Rage 2 and Mega Man.

 

[Tarma]

Here's an idea for all you programmer wannabes out there...

Instead of ruining perfectly good games by down-grading them to inferior hardware, how about you put your skills to use porting a mega drive game to the Neo Geo?

I'm sure we'd all like/prefer to see a Thunder Force or Streets of Rage game amped up to 11... instead of great games like RBS fucking hamstrung on Sega hardware.

 

[wyo]

Glad we agree on this!

https://www.neo-geo.com/forums/index.php?threads/new-sega-genesis-ports-to-neo-geo.271669/

 

[Neo Alec]

I'm not exactly sure what kinds of enhancements those old games would get. I would think it would take a lot of new pixel art.

Maybe something like Streets of Rage Remake?

 

[NeoSeeD]

I'm not exactly sure what kinds of enhancements those old games would get. I would think it would take a lot of new pixel art.

Maybe something like Streets of Rage Remake?

Off the top of my head, more color and background detail (and maybe layers), bigger boss sprites and more sprites in general, zooming and rotation, less slowdown, memory card saves. SOR Remake (as your example) or even something like Final Fight MD type of improvements would work as well.

 

[DevilRedeemed]

Hmmm....


....hmmm

 

[Tarma]

I'm not exactly sure what kinds of enhancements those old games would get. I would think it would take a lot of new pixel art.

Maybe something like Streets of Rage Remake?

But back-porting a Neo Geo game to a Mega Drive is an enhancement of that particular game?

Since when has retrograding been classed as progress???

 

[HellioN]

Hmmm....


....hmmm

 

[yagamikun]

Here's an idea for all you programmer wannabes out there...

Instead of ruining perfectly good games by down-grading them to inferior hardware, how about you put your skills to use porting a mega drive game to the Neo Geo?

I'm sure we'd all like/prefer to see a Thunder Force or Streets of Rage game amped up to 11... instead of great games like RBS fucking hamstrung on Sega hardware.

I hear you, but I also hear Alec's point - Take Xenocrisis for example. Here's a modern game developed specifically for the Mega Drive and the "upgrade" to the Neo was half-hearted at best. I'd rather just play the MD version as the Neo version didn't take advantage of the hardware in a meaningful way aside from a slight color depth upgrade and some superfluous still art cutscenes.

Natsume's modern Ninja Saviors, a modern-upgrade to the SNES Ninja Warriors Again is a prime example I think of what you're talking about, @Tarma ? Even though Ninja Saviors is not a Neo game, it's that style upgrade you're looking for I'd wager? Bigger, better sprite work, richer/fuller soundtrack, slight upgrade to mechanics, more effects and sprites on screen, etc.

It's an incredible game, and it almost feels like if there were an "arcade Neo original" the SNES version would have been the port.

 

[Tarma]

Natsume's modern Ninja Saviors, a modern-upgrade to the SNES Ninja Warriors Again is a prime example I think of what you're talking about, @Tarma ? Even though Ninja Saviors is not a Neo game, it's that style upgrade you're looking for I'd wager? Bigger, better sprite work, richer/fuller soundtrack, slight upgrade to mechanics, more effects and sprites on screen, etc.

It's an incredible game, and it almost feels like if there were an "arcade Neo original" the SNES version would have been the port.

Yes, I suppose so, something to that effect.

 

[NeoSneth]

There's people porting MK to the Jaguar and MKII to the 3DO.
I think it's an interesting exercise as a dev. They seem to be learning a lot in the process.

You could always argue, why play anything on the genesis if there is an arcade version. Who cares tho.

I think all collectards are a cringey to an extent. Which one isn't? That's why I watch some of them. Keeps me from relapsing on buying too much plastic crap.

 

[Takumaji]

You could always argue, why play anything on the genesis if there is an arcade version. Who cares tho.

True, but some ports simply play and sometimes even look better on Genny or have extra modes that give you more replayability, like Atomic Runner, Shinobi, M.E.R.C.S., etc. As someone who started his gaming life with going to the arcades and playing the ports at home on my micro, I always was keen on laying my hands on the latest ports from my then fav arcade games, and this has been ingrained into my fabric, so deep in fact that I still return to playing ports on various systems in favour of the original versions, even if I have access to them. That's just part of my gamer socialisation I guess.

 

[NeoSneth]

True, but some ports simply play and sometimes even look better on Genny or have extra modes that give you more replayability, like Atomic Runner, Shinobi, M.E.R.C.S., etc. As someone who started his gaming life with going to the arcades and playing the ports at home on my micro, I always was keen on laying my hands on the latest ports from my then fav arcade games, and this has been ingrained into my fabric, so deep in fact that I still return to playing ports on various systems in favour of the original versions, even if I have access to them. That's just part of my gamer socialisation I guess.

I agree, and almost called that out, but they are different games more than ports. Many of the NES "ports" are entirely different games than their namesakes.

 

[NeoSeeD]

I hear you, but I also hear Alec's point - Take Xenocrisis for example. Here's a modern game developed specifically for the Mega Drive and the "upgrade" to the Neo was half-hearted at best. I'd rather just play the MD version as the Neo version didn't take advantage of the hardware in a meaningful way aside from a slight color depth upgrade and some superfluous still art cutscenes.

Natsume's modern Ninja Saviors, a modern-upgrade to the SNES Ninja Warriors Again is a prime example I think of what you're talking about, @Tarma ? Even though Ninja Saviors is not a Neo game, it's that style upgrade you're looking for I'd wager? Bigger, better sprite work, richer/fuller soundtrack, slight upgrade to mechanics, more effects and sprites on screen, etc.

It's an incredible game, and it almost feels like if there were an "arcade Neo original" the SNES version would have been the port.

One thing that annoyed me regarding XenoCrisis is that the dev likened it to Shock Troopers. LOL NO. XenoCrisis is a good game but not even in the same galaxy in terms of... well, anything compared to Shock Troopers. Just no.

Regarding your other point, the newer Natsume ports would make amazing Neo games if they ever ported them. They seem pretty doable. Maybe widescreen could be accomplished through an anamorphic option. It's worked for less powerful consoles and it's something that I haven't seen a neo dev try to my knowledge.

You could always argue, why play anything on the genesis if there is an arcade version. Who cares tho.

It didn't happen a whole lot back in the 16-bit gen, but IMO, the Genesis/Mega Drive version of Shadow Dancer is better than the arcade in nearly every way.

 

[Gentlegamer]

It didn't happen a whole lot back in the 16-bit gen, but IMO, the Genesis/Mega Drive version of Shadow Dancer if better than the arcade in nearly every way.

hell yeah